Loner Manners?

[maillotpois]

Thanks, Brandy.

I remember when I started riding, and our coach said we'd be working in pacelines. I was quite nervous about it. I mean, I am the most uncoordinated person I know. I was in remedial PE (that's back when they had funding for such things in public schools - it really did scar me for life and I just always assumed I would never be an athlete).

Then once I started working in groups, with proper training and guidance, I found it a wonderful thing. There is just NOTHING like working with a group of cyclists, fighting the wind, pushing your speed - or simply riding together single file chatting. I'll never forget working with one particular (non-TNT) group in a pacelining clinic (which included some contact drills on a lawn after the ride) and on the way back in one of the women commented with a big grin "So that's what its like to go fast!"

The ride we're training our people for, the Death Ride, has VERY little pacelining or traditional group riding - it is a solo event. But there's enough opportunity to ride together in training that it is critical to get those skills in place among our riders. It's a critical skill to have and I wouldn't omit it from a safety perspective. We spend some time at our first ride doing a clinic on this and then reinforce those skills throughout the season. (Which is a LOT easier now that I'm back coaching from the bike instead of the SAG car! ).

[Grog]

Forgive my confusion and please provide me with information:

When riding with a group, I've only ever ridden in paceline-ish formations. Sometimes it would break down into smaller groups (2-4 riders) but my club (and myself as an occasional ride leader) enforced the idea of us behaving as "one vehicle" (we had yellow jerseys so a yellow school bus was suiting) We rode on streets with moderate traffic a lot and it really helped to keep us in ruly, organized, structured groups. When I ride with my husband we keep very close together 95% of the time as well. Or we try to...

I don't know groups/club around here that ride differently, but I have not seen that many.

As a driver, I don't mind passing a paceline, even a double one, mainly of course because I am familiar with them and know they are predictable. What unsettles me more is passing a large number of small groups of cyclists, which don't usually ride single file unfortunately.

How exactly do "social rides" as some have described above work?? How do people spread themselves on the road? What does it mean to "ride together" if everyone is riding sort of separately? I'm looking for a new club to ride with and I expect it to be more "social" so I'd like to prepare mentally.

[jobob]

I'll never forget working with one particular (non-TNT) group in a pacelining clinic (which included some contact drills on a lawn after the ride) and on the way back in one of the women commented with a big grin "So that's what its like to go fast!"

That was a fun day!

[Veronica]

I guess I'm the creepy guy on a bicycle. I've been known to turn around and catch up to folks who are out riding on our closed to vehicle traffic local road, if I'm feeling social. Last time it was a guy that I had been "talking" to on Bikeforums, but had never met before.

I guess in general I don't see other cyclists as being creepy.

V.

[maillotpois]

Sorry V, cute girls on stunning steel steeds simply cannot BE "creepy".

[Veronica]

Jo is pretty cute, isn't she.

V.

[mimitabby]

As a driver, I don't mind passing a paceline, even a double one, mainly of course because I am familiar with them and know they are predictable. What unsettles me more is passing a large number of small groups of cyclists, which don't usually ride single file unfortunately.

How exactly do "social rides" as some have described above work?? How do people spread themselves on the road? What does it mean to "ride together" if everyone is riding sort of separately? I'm looking for a new club to ride with and I expect it to be more "social" so I'd like to prepare mentally.

Unless there are two or more lanes going in one direction, we stay single file. If we have a lane, we'll have bikes side by side. When you ride really long rides (20-100 miles) it's hard for everyone to ride together, so we more or less stay in clumps. hills are another situation where you're better off NOT close to other bikes, because one person might be grinding up the hill at 4mph and someone else at 14mph so we tend to get spaced out and then regroup from time to time.

[SadieKate]

Silly me, here I thought that riding single file was pacelining without the intent of drafting.

I also don't plan on driving donuts on icy roads, but I took a class to learn what to do just in case I found myself in an unplanned whirl.

I have definitely had creepy guys follow me on a bicycle. Multiple times, I've also been followed dangerously by cars, including one for 100 miles down I-5 back before there were towns and highway patrol cars at frequent intervals. I've had way too many encounters with guys that don't know how to respect personal space to let anyone follow without some kind of evaluation.

[SadieKate]

hills are another situation where you're better off NOT close to other bikes, because one person might be grinding up the hill at 4mph and someone else at 14mph so we tend to get spaced out and then regroup from time to time.

But if you can climb at the same pace as someone else and can trust their skills to ride a straight line, why not climb somewhat closely? I'll let aka_kim pull me up any hill.

Descending spread out, but climbing with a trusted comparable rider? Why not ride fairly close?

[mimitabby]

SadieKate you answered your own question. I don't know anyone who rides my speed up hill. They are either faster or slower.

When I did Hurricane Ridge with RD, he circled me often and our riding partner met us when we got to the lodge on top.

[OakLeaf]

Descending spreadout, but climbing with a trusted comparable rider? Why not ride fairly close?

For one thing, when you're climbing, even strong riders are going so slow that the advantage from drafting is minimal.

For another, flatland pacelining is a way for riders of comparable but not identical abilities to stay together; stronger riders take longer pulls, less strong riders take short ones or even peel off as soon as they reach the front. Strength and weight differences are greatly magnified once you get into the hills.

But mainly, even with only two riders, one of you may want to stand up when the other wants to stay in the saddle.

Personally I don't have the skills to micro-control my bike's front-to-back movement when I stand up, even though I'm perfectly comfortable in a flatland paceline. Other riders, who spin perfectly smoothly, get into a big side-to-side sway whenever they're standing up. There's just a whole 'nother level of bike control involved when you're standing.

With all these disadvantages, and with the advantage of drafting being so small, the groups I ride with in hilly country never stay that close together.

[SadieKate]

SadieKate you answered your own question. I don't know anyone who rides my speed up hill. They are either faster or slower.

I wasn't really asking a question. I was wondering why you appeared to be making a global recommendation that everyone spread out when climbing a hill.

[Brandy]

For one thing, when you're climbing, even strong riders are going so slow that the advantage from drafting is minimal.

For another, flatland pacelining is a way for riders of comparable but not identical abilities to stay together; stronger riders take longer pulls, less strong riders take short ones or even peel off as soon as they reach the front. Strength and weight differences are greatly magnified once you get into the hills.

But mainly, even with only two riders, one of you may want to stand up when the other wants to stay in the saddle.

Personally I don't have the skills to micro-control my bike's front-to-back movement when I stand up, even though I'm perfectly comfortable in a flatland paceline. Other riders, who spin perfectly smoothly, get into a big side-to-side sway whenever they're standing up. There's just a whole 'nother level of bike control involved when you're standing.

With all these disadvantages, and with the advantage of drafting being so small, the groups I ride with in hilly country never stay that close together.

When climbing it's definitely more pacing than drafting, but that can be very beneficial.

If I'm climbing with someone and I want to stand, I signal that I will be standing and shift to a harder gear which makes the transition smoother. riding with my boyfriend (vireo) I can anticipate when he is going to stand, simply by paying attention to the pitches on the hill.

[SadieKate]

Oakleaf, I know there is no drafting advantage to following closely on a climb but there sure is a mental boost and the companionship of shared misery.

Generally, people don't stand in pacelines. Do it at the back.

And if you're climbing closely with someone and need to stand, just call it out beforehand. It's a good idea to be climbing spaced a little bit apart so that the kickback of standing won't cause contact but you can still be close enough to gossip.

[maillotpois]

When I paced one of the women I coached up the climbs at Death Ride last year, it was really fun to work on that control when standing - not letting the bike move back at all. I agree it's not something for everyone, so when climbing/pacing if you don't have that control or are not completely comfortable with the person ahead, then give yourself half a wheel or a wheel length behind.

Even if the paces in climbing are not the same (which they were not on that particular ride), it is a great challenge for the lead rider to keep a pace the other can comfortably follow. You have to really be aware of the other rider's pace, how they show weakness and tiredness. Brandy's right, they're not drafting. But you're setting a smooth consistent pace that they might not quite be able to set on their own. (A little like how the support riders pace their leaders on climbs in the races. But MUCH slower. ).