runners vs. cyclist

[Kimmyt]

http://forums.runnersworld.com/eve/f...8/m/4661061113

Personally the implication that cyclists are all elitist pricks pisses me off. As does the whole THEIR road vs. THEIR SIDE of the road.

I do both, run and ride, but I think they're missing something here. Cyclists look like that at runners b/c they have to swerve out onto the road to give the runner room, therefore putting themselves in danger of being hit by a car.

Unfortunately, I only browse the RW forums once in awhile so don't care to post to the thread, thought some of you ladies (and men) might want to weigh in here on their thoughts on runners on the road...

K.

[HillSlugger]

Two of the reasonable posts:

"Yes, I run against traffic, but also recognize that I am running in the bike lane. When I see a cyclist approaching, I move over- on the sidewalk if there is one, or over as far as possible. I would not want to make them swerve into traffic to get around me. I feel like this is the right thing to do."

and

"Runners are to cyclists as cyclists are to cars.

or vice versa

Cyclists are to runners as cars are to cyclists.

I ride and run as well. You folks who see a bike coming toward you think you know what the cyclist is thinking. Truth is, he's thinking please be predictible so I don't run into you. For goodness sake give everyone a break."

I hope these are the majority views just as I hope that most drivers don't want to hit bikers.

[Grog]

I do both, run and ride, but I think they're missing something here. Cyclists look like that at runners b/c they have to swerve out onto the road to give the runner room, therefore putting themselves in danger of being hit by a car.

I think the same is true for cars, actually: unless the road is deserted, they have to swerve out onto the other lane to give the cyclist room, therefore putting themselves in danger of being hit by a car.

Or so, at least, do they perceive.

Or they see the cyclist at the last minute/second, they're startled, and scared.

There's lots to be learned about how WE can be more safe by studying our interactions with other vulnerable users of the road.

[DDH]

I think we are all guilty of make judgements on others because of our experiences with a few that WERE rude or obnoxious, or because our perception of a look or remark was wrong.
Hopefully those that bike will post to that thread and change the minds of those that only run. Or maybe not. Sometimes first impressions are very hard to change.
I personally didn't spend $1000 dollars on my bike I bought a used one and gave it a good home. I spend as little as possible on clothing, I only have a couple pair of shorts and a couple jerseys that I bought on sale, therefore money has nothing to do with my attitude. LOL Just kidding.
I have never seen that kind of attitude around here, but of course I don't bike where runners run or haven't encountered it yet.

[alpinerabbit]

"their 1000$ bikes"...... ROTFfekinLMAO.

My bike is worth 3000$

[SadieKate]

I think the comment about hoping the runner will be predictable is very accurate. I do think that both drivers and runners need to recognize (and some do) that they can see oncoming traffic and make a better decision about passing.

Around here, you never know if the runners and walkers (and cyclists also) will move into a single file line. I've just decided to hold my line, staying straight and not swerving into traffic. It sounds harsh, but the runner(s) can see traffic behind me and I can't.

I also can't think of any reason to be snooty to a runner unless they do something stupid that endangers any of us. Now dog walkers with those expand-o leashes, beware . . . . .

[singletrackmind]

It makes me sad and a wee bit angry.
Runners should be on the side as much as is safe but shouldn't have to hop onto the sidewalk to be avoided by a cyclist -sidewalks are as dangerous to runners as gutters are to us- cyclists should slow if necessary and safely go around the runner. Cars are expected to do so for us, they don't expect us to hop onto the sidewalk (ok, they shouldn't) just so they don't have to exercise caution and the same should go for a runner. We all have to share and because runners/walkers are the most likely to get hurt they should get priority over both cars/bikes, bikes should get priority over cars and cars should get the heck out of the way! , um, I mean drive like there are more people on the earth besides their own selves. Of course it'd help relations if everyone involved all knew/followed the rules of the road.

[SadieKate]

. . . and because runners/walkers are the most likely to get hurt

Just curious, why do you think this?

[onimity]

Interesting discussion. I ride where there are a lot of runners and they are usually friendly, I always say hello an many actually smile back. The only runners I have problems with are those that run with uncontrolled dogs, especially when they are running well into a street. I had to pass a runner in the lane for opposite traffic this morning. He was on the line between the shoulder and the road, his dog was running 3/4 of the way into my lane, the leash took up the space in between. It wouldn't have been a big deal except that there was a car behind me that wanted to pass both of us. Fortunately the cars on this particular road are very polite (and usually outnumbered 20-1 by bikes!)

I would say that runners (or cyclists) with uncontrolled dogs annoy me in general, they are so unpredictable and often dangerous. But runners in general are great, I like that you can see them approaching and smile. And I really admire them, they are working so much harder than I am!

I do understand the point about elitist cyclists, though. We have a good number of them around here, guys (usually) that are generally cocky and unfriendly and seem to resent having to share the road with anyone including other 'inferior' cyclists. I see cyclists every day that will block traffic needlessly, that will flip off a car at the slightest sign of rudeness, that will laugh mercilessly while passing someone mashing along on a Huffy with a backpack and rolled jeans. They don't ride $1000 bikes, though!

I consider *individuals* that behave like that to be a$$holes, but that doesn't reflect on others that choose the same mode of transportation/recreation. Well over 99% of the runners/cyclists/motorists I see on a daily basis are wonderfully friendly and considerate. It is a shame that people see that sort of behavior and associate it with cyclists in general or make assumptions about what people are thinking and feeling. Maybe the guy just had a bad day, or he's tired, or is thinking about something other than you, too.

Anne

[teigyr]

I run and cycle. When I run, I figure it's easier for me to move over to a sidewalk or gravel (on the side of the MUT) than the cyclist. While there is usually plenty of room, I always try to make it so they don't have to swerve around me. That's to say when I know they're there, of course.

What irks me as a cyclist are the runners wearing ipods or other devices to impair their hearing. Most runners are really great about staying over and I always try to say hi or "on your left" or whatever's required but there are many who don't even hear me.

I do have to say when I run, cyclists are not always polite. There are elitist ones and I understand what the runners are talking about. It isn't ALL of us, of course, and it's a shame that a few cyclists give us a bad name.

I haven't had bad interactions with runners and dogs but how's about roller-bladers and dogs

[singletrackmind]

Just curious, why do you think this?

You know, you've made me realize I should have said that differently. Thanks!

Pedestrians are the only ones 'unarmed' with something extraneous that could hurt others. They are going slowly and unlikely to run into a bike or car. Note, I'm not saying unlikely to cause us to run into them, some do seem directionally unstable. All the more reason for us to exercise caution. While crashing into a pedestrian might cause both a great deal of pain and injury it's our speed that ups the ante, isn't it? Two people crashing into each other vs. a walkerpeople and a bikerpeople, seems obvious which pair would likely be worse hurt.

[Deanna]

I was wondering about the presence of runners in bike lanes a while back, and found out the law (in CA at least) is, they don't belong there if there's a sidewalk. It would be like running down a car lane. Runners are considered pedestrians, so if there's no sidewalk (chances are there's no bike lane), cyclists yield the right of way to the runners as they would any other pedestrians. If there is a sidewalk, a cyclists shouldn't have to swerve into a car lane to avoid a ped in the bike lane.

Part of what it may come down to is cycling advocacy groups have to work A LOT harder to get bike lanes put into general plans and striped on the roads, so cyclists may be justified in being a little possessive. Developers pretty much automatically put in sidewalks.

[smilingcat]

So what am I supposed to do in the following situation? Happend to me on numerous occasion.

Several runners running toward me (going the opposite direction of traffic) in the bike lane.

I have no choice but to move into the traffic lane and out of the bike lane. Two or three of the runners then run out into the traffic lane and signals me to get back into the bike lane?? WHAT??

I have no choice to move further into the traffic lane and they do the same. I lock up my brake. They are angry that I didn't follow their instruction. I don't take this lightly and tell them they are jay walking and should get out of the street. And not impede a vehicle on the street. They are not nice so I'm not nice. GRRR!!!! I've also had this happen from skateboarders, in-line skaters, other beach going beach cruiser cyclists.

I used to run when I lived in NYC. When I was running on MUT I usually do little bit of "cross country" off the trail to let the cyclist go by. Its much easier for me as a runner to get out of the way than a cyclist.

When a jogger gets out of the bike lane I do thank them polietly. On a MUT, I wouldn't assume I have the right of way.

Smilingcat

[SadieKate]

I was wondering about the presence of runners in bike lanes a while back, and found out the law (in CA at least) is, they don't belong there if there's a sidewalk. It would be like running down a car lane. Runners are considered pedestrians, so if there's no sidewalk (chances are there's no bike lane), cyclists yield the right of way to the runners as they would any other pedestrians. If there is a sidewalk, a cyclists shouldn't have to swerve into a car lane to avoid a ped in the bike lane.

Deanna, thanks for the research. I was trying to do that myself and then got distracted by something (surprise, surprise). Anyway, I realize that Davis is a unique-being unto itself in many ways cycling-related, but we do have a lot of roads with bike lanes and sidewalks. These tend to be on the edges of town and even out on what most people would consider a farm road, even on campus through the fields. Fortunately, in these instances, the bike lane tends to be very wide so if everyone goes single-file we can pass each other safely. I do as I said, hold my line and I stay to the right. Since in the US, we tend to be a "stay to the right" kind of culture, this makes me more predictable but it does force the runner to be closer to traffic.

One thing to consider is that asphalt is kinder to the joints than cement/concrete so runners tend to migrate to the road. Not to mention they don't like dodging walkers anymore than cyclists do.

Frankly, it's the runners/walkers who are not going against traffic that create the riskier problem.

[SadieKate]

Several runners running toward me (going the opposite direction of traffic) in the bike lane.

I have no choice but to move into the traffic lane and out of the bike lane. Two or three of the runners then run out into the traffic lane and signals me to get back into the bike lane?? WHAT??

I have no choice to move further into the traffic lane and they do the same.

So you and the runners are facing each other? And you move to your left out into traffic?

I'm trying to picture your example.