650 vs 700 tires

[caligurl]

ok.... so when i got my current bike... i was adament that i wanted 700 tires cuz i figured it was easier to find tires.. if i had a blowout and was riding with the guys... i could borrow a tire... tubes could be shared... etc...

now as i research more... i think when i do get my next, hopefully custom, bike... since i'm a shortie.. it will probably be suggested that i get the smaller tires...

those of you that have them... what problems have you had? also what advantage (well.. i know it makes the overall fit of the bike better a lot of times!

i sat on a gorgeous orbea this weekend with the small tires... would have loved to have left the store with it!

anyways.. i'm just continuing my research and asking for input!

[Adventure Girl]

Originally posted by caligurl
...i figured it was easier to find tires.. if i had a blowout and was riding with the guys... i could borrow a tire... tubes could be shared... etc...

I don't know what you mean by "borrow a tire"? Is there someone you ride with who carries around an extra tire? Really?

My bike has 650's. I carry two tubes with me when I ride. I had 3 flats on one ride. But I was riding alone, so it wouldn't have mattered if I had 650's or 700's!

One down side I encountered because I have 650's was the cost of a spare wheel. I bought an extra rear wheel. I use that wheel with an old tire when I ride my trainer. I was going through rear tires really fast from riding my trainer so much. If I had a "standard" size wheel, my LBS would have given me an old wheel that they had hanging around. But since I needed a 650, I had to buy a new one.

By the way, I've never tried it, but I've heard that you can use a tube for a 700 on your 650's in an emergency. Anyone ever try that? If it would work, it would be better than walking!

[caligurl]

ya... my hubby actually borrowed a tire from someone on a ride he was on when he blew a tire! go figure! i know i don't carry one! (well.. i take my spare blue one to rides with me.. but it's in the car.. not on me or the bike.... so i don't really know why we bring it!

hmmmmm... didn't think about the spare wheel... i actually already have a spare 700 for just that reason.. got it cheap from the LBS so i don't ruin my pro michelins.. put the other tire on for nasty, horrible, evil trainer riding (get the idea i don't like the trainer!)

[caligurl]

OH! do 650's make you any slower cuz they are smaller? (i'm slow enough already!)

[fasteryet]

this is a link from Sheldon Brown's bike shop:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/terry/

Which Wheel Size?
Like Terry, some other manufacturers like Trek® and Cannondale® make small bicycles using 26" wheels front and rear; but Terry also uses 24" in the front and 700C in the rear. Why?
This seems to be a muddled marketing decision rather than an elegant engineering solution on our competitors' parts. A 26" wheel offers some advantages, but not the way it's used in the frames we see from our competitors. Everyone has the same goal when making a smaller bicycle for the small rider: make the top tube short enough! If you use a 700C wheel on the front of a bicycle, you can only shorten the top tube so much (to about 53 cm) before the front wheel overlaps with the pedal, often called toe-clip overlap. A 26" road tire is about 2 cm smaller in radius than a 700C tire, so you can shorten the top tube just as much (to about 51 cm) before there is overlap. A 24" road tire is about 5 cm smaller in radius than a 700C tire, so the top tube can be shortened to about 48 cm with no problems.

We use 24" in the front on our smaller road bikes (48.3 cm and under) so we can have more latitude for good design. The answer to the next question explains this in more detail.


Top-Tube Length
Other manufacturers have fairly short top tubes on bikes with 26" and 700C front wheels. How is this possible?
It's possible because their designs are compromised. Ours are not. How do you make a bicycle with a top tube under 51 cm if you use a front wheel larger than 24" and you want to avoid toe clip overlap? There are a couple of ways to do this.

First, use a steeper seat angle (75+ degrees). The steeper this is, the shorter the top tube will be if nothing else changes. The problem with this? You will be too far forward of the pedals, unable to establish the proper relationship between your knee and the pedal spindle. You won't be as efficient a rider, and knee problems may result. You'll spend a lot of time wishing you could push back more on the saddle.

Second, use a shallower head angle (71-degrees) and more rake (6.5+cm). The problem here is that the bicycle will have rather sluggish handling.

Neither of these is a solution because it limits the design. Head angles, rake, and seat angles should lead a design not follow it. Head angle and rake are chosen to achieve the desired handling of the bicycle: is it for racing, touring, criteriums? Seat angle should be chosen to give the rider the best position on the bicycle.The 24" front wheel lets us build a bike that fits without compromise. It would be an insult to our customers to offer anything less.

Aren't 24" tires hard to find?
Not that we know of. They are widely distributed and we always keep a good stock here for dealers and consumers in need.

Won't I go slower with a small front wheel?
No. Even though the wheel turns more rapidly than a larger wheel, it has less mass, so its momentum is about the same.

[madisongrrl]

Tire size should be based on bike fit....

[Surlygirl]

Terry's new Isis comes with two 650 wheels I believe.

[massbikebabe]

Cali:

I saw this up close and personal and boy is she purty!!

http://www.orbea-usa.com/fly.aspx?me...duct&taxid=233


karen

[Veronica]

Karen,

I'm curious - what makes it pretty to you.

I find the various tube diameters a bit distracting. The Ultegra shifters look big and ugly. It's more appealing with the Campy. Why are the front and rear tires laced differently? It's a very compact frame which will make it a bit twitchy. The paint job is nice.

Veronica

[Surlygirl]

Hey Karen,
Where did you see the orbea? Was it at Bike Alley? I think I like those guys the best out of all the LBSs around here. I need to take my new carbon fork up there and have them put it on my little surly.
So how bout all this snow. 22 inches in Grafton.

[massbikebabe]

Veronica and Surly:

I saw this bike at Belmont Wheelworks...just visiting because Bike Alley is the place I love the most. The picture on the web does not do this baby justice. The pink is much more vibrant in person and the wheels are laced the same. V, I ride a compact frame becaue of my small stature, big attitude, and I don't find them to be twitchy at all. Also, you are right, the campy does look better than the Ultegra, but the Ultegra ain't horrible...the levers looked fine. If I go back that way I may test ride to give an honest opinion, but did she ever catch my eye.
Surly, my kids measured a snow drift at 52 inches but I think all and all we got about 30 or so here in Worcester. I am rebuilding my ole Terry and had Bike Alley re-lace one of my wheels...they did a marvelous job. They had a Surly single speed hangin up last time I was there...it was cool looking. I personally may buy the periwinkle Hardrock that seems to be lingering and waiting for me to buy it
karen

[Surlygirl]

Oh Karen,
I saw the Periwinkle Hardrock and drooled. Hubby said they also have a beautiful lavender Specialized Dolce I think. How did you like Belmont Wheelworks? Peter Mooney builds bikes there and I was considering having a custom done. Is the store worth the trip?

[caligurl]

i saw that pretty pink and blue orbea at a bike shop here in socal (cyclery USA in redlands)... the one they had built was durace. i didn't notice the different spoking... i don't like it now that i see it! but.... i did like the frame very much though! thought it was very pretty! i even got to sit on it! lol!

i didn't ask about a test ride but probably should have! when we get back down there... if it's still there i will! i kinda discounted it from my list of bikes cuz isn't it an aluminum frame?

i LOVE the look of the orbeas.. but would really want an orca if i got on (spoile brat!) but don't think an orca would fit me!

[massbikebabe]

Surly:

Belmont is like a dream come true of a shop, they have anything and everything you could possibly want. HOWEVER, my
hubby and I went there over the holidays to get a Bianchi jersey for my son who is size mans small, and the help was less than helpful...almost nasty to us and we ended up walking out with a very big wad of cash that we were going to spend there. We then went to Harris Cyclery in Newton, they were closing but let us in and got us everything we wanted plus!! The Asian woman that works there was a love, and bent over backwards to help us.
I have a special love for BA because my daughters godfather
started the business and later sold it, but many of the same help are there. I did not see the periwinkle dolce but I do love that Hardrock...my husband thinks he saw it go out when he was there last week...boo hoo
karen

[massbikebabe]

Oh yeah Surly that Specialized is sweet

http://www.specialized.com/SBCBkMode...35i1yge.j27005


I have to stop looking. Hubby says I have waaaaay to many bikes now...(Trek 5200 carbon, Terry Precision, and green 5 year old Hardrock)

karen