Do Cylists irritate Motorists & Vice Versa?

[Morphine]

Need your views from an international perspective ; sunny islander experiencing too many unfriendly motorists and near crashes despite defensive riding on the roads back home. A general forum thread also had motorists saying that "cyclists have no business on the roads" because we dont pay road tax!!!
Like to hear your views on riding experiences and encounters with motorists back home.

[Dianyla]

Um, have you seen the whole Crazy Drivers subforum yet?

[Deanna]

There is an excellent article posted here on TE about the "Cycling Myths":

http://www.teamestrogen.com/articles/articles_myth1.asp

Skip to the second article for "road tax" in particular. This will give you some idea of where motorists are coming from. There are some good facts to have when dealing with an irate motorists, if you can remember them. Not sure how much this applies in Singapore, but I'm sure some of it will help.

[CorsairMac]

It's my belief that cyclists that irritate motorists are dealing with motorists who have issues anyway and are just looking for someone/thing to take it out on. As a rule, my daily commutes on a busy street are filled with motorists who go out of their way to watch out for me - sometimes to the detriment of the other drivers! LOL Most of my close calls have come from inattentive drivers. But it could be that I live in a biker-friendly city.

[Geonz]

A lot has to do with what s/he's calling "Defensive Riding," in my opinion... sometimes what is best is counterintuitive.
HOwever, a *lot* has to do with local culture, and just how crowded the roads are.
Around here, there isn't too much traffic, *and* the locals are accustomed to things like tractors. Slowing down for a bit doesn't bother most people. HOwever, if I"m goign down one of our busier streets, I'm much more likely to get hollered at, and people *have* been hit and had things thrown at them.

In many communities, cyclists are a minority - and that brings baggage. It's human nature that when one group has inherent power over another, they tend to rationalize that that group shouldn't have any rights anyway, and will make up a rationale for it. Since most people they talk to are in their majority, they tend to get it supported. SO, there are groups of A Certain Type who sort of don't understand that a: most riders also have cars so they *do* pay taxes, b: cars are the creatures that cause the damage that we have to pay those taxes to repair; the bikes don't cost the road crews those dollars. They just cause the "eternal" seconds of inconvenience to the all-powerful driver... and usually the link between "road taxes" isn't direct anyway. Do you have "road taxes" on your tax form? No.

Here, I'm surprised that a generally very supportive community is horredously unreflected in the road plans... we have some bike paths but they tend to do things like go right *through* bus stops, or are in the middle of the road (despite people jumping up and down at meetings when they planned the things!?) or have to cross busy streets suddenly or just END wham! (Change may be in the wind... but this *is* Illinois and the politics ... argh...) So I tend to just take the roads... where almost all drivers treat me with respect.

"Riding Defensively" - what does that mean? Riding too defensively sometimes means being invisible and that's worse than being "out there." HOwever, so much depends on the local culture.

[Morphine]

There is an excellent article posted here on TE about the "Cycling Myths":

http://www.teamestrogen.com/articles/articles_myth1.asp

Skip to the second article for "road tax" in particular. This will give you some idea of where motorists are coming from. There are some good facts to have when dealing with an irate motorists, if you can remember them. Not sure how much this applies in Singapore, but I'm sure some of it will help.

It takes only 1 black sheep to wash away all good cycling manners the community is trying hard to promote here. Not sure if you get foreign workers, typically from developing countries such as India, Indonesia etc, who commutes to work, chose either not to observe the traffic rules on the road or use the pedestrian walk-ways to cycle

Perhaps its high time the local authorities here implement some kind of "law" on cycling, but as it is, we are already ruled by 1001 laws already
Just wondering, does your local cycling / transport community contribute anything towards inculcating a harmonious cyclist/motorist existence ?

[allabouteva]

Well, most of us are both cyclists and motorists and can see both sides of the story. As a cyclist, there are moron drivers, and as a driver, there are moron cyclists (not as many!) The number of non helmet wearing, footpath riding, no-lights-in-the-dark cyclists, I've lost count of.

However, I think the situation is exascerbated (sp?) in Singapore, where road taxes are super horrendous. I visited S'pore last year, and found that motorists paid an outrageous amount for road tax. I think a basic 4 cyclinder 2 liter car was something like S$120,000? which was roughly the same in Aussie dollars, or about US$85,000. So say the worth of the car is around $20,000 then you're paying S$100,000 for 'licensing' the car (another word for tax).

I think the Govt should take a proactive role in this, and encourage more people to ride bikes, Singapore is not a really big place, but it's not very bike friendly (no lanes I could remember etc) as it could be. There's no public message about the benefits of cycling etc. In Beijing where I visited this year, it's very different where cycling is really very entrenched into the fabric of the city. Tons of cycling lanes, etc (but very kamikaze cyclists!!!)

My 2 cents worth..

e

[allabouteva]

The number of non helmet wearing, footpath riding, no-lights-in-the-dark cyclists, I've lost count of.

Sorry, Karen, no offense meant..

I should remember that rules are different around the world. In NSW, Australia, it's illegal to ride a bicycle on the footpath that are for pedestrians only, unless you are under 12. There are shared paths, but they have to be designated (signposted).

Generally most suburban footpaths are pedestrian only.

[allabouteva]

Just wondering, does your local cycling / transport community contribute anything towards inculcating a harmonious cyclist/motorist existence ?

Morphine, in Australia, the relatives of Amy Gillett (the elite cyclist who got killed in Germany last year by a young motorist, while training on the road with the Australian team squad), have established the Amy Gillett Foundation, web site here:

http://www.amygillett.org.au/content.asp?pid=2872


The main aim of the Foundation is to establish better relationships between cyclists and motorists, and it's patron is Mark Webber (Formula one driver for Renault).

Hope this helps!

e

[Tuckervill]

I ride on the sidewalk.

But there's never anyone walking on it.

I live in a town of 14,000, with no public transportation and the usual suburban sprawl (although we're not close enough to any city to really be suburban). Cars are king.

I've been honked off the street even when I was riding in the empty parking spaces downtown on Sunday. I started riding on the sidewalk when we first moved here, because my son was only 9 then and he wasn't that great at holding a straight line. The town trail that is supposed to connect all the neighborhoods (eventually) goes through some beautiful wooded parts of town, but sometimes it follows the sidewalk in the busiest traffic areas. Depending on the time of day, there's no way I'm getting in that traffic. Just not necessary, since no one else is on the sidewalk.

Karen

[iFKA]

In Croatia we don't have such problem (at least as I know). Usually when I drive and the other motorcyclist comes from other direction he waves or smiles as hello. I see no reason for arguing with motorcyclist, at least they can pass us through without problem.
But with car drivers is another situation cause we don't have special marked paths for bike drivers (there are some but mainly in the capital city where I don't drive). And, unfortunately, there will always be drivers who thinks the road belongs to them

[Tuckervill]

I'm not offended. It's probably illegal for me to ride on the sidewalk, too, but I do it anyway.

On a local forum I read about a guy who was screamed off the street by a police officer in heavy traffic in our capital city. (She said through her loudspeaker, "GET ON THE SIDEWALK." ) The cyclist was the only one moving, so he wasn't blocking traffic. So, I don't believe any police officer is going to run me off. They don't know the rules.

Karen

[Geonz]

In my effective cycling class our instructor noted that a cop told him it amazed him... bike riders are rather rare in that they;'re likely to say "I wish laws would be enforced more strictly on cyclists!" How many truckers or motorcycle riders would feel that way about their respective fellow travelers?

[MomOnBike]

bike riders are rather rare in that they;'re likely to say "I wish laws would be enforced more strictly on cyclists!"

I've thought that off and on for years. It's a matter of legitimacy. I wonder if bikes would be considered as a legitimate vehicle with rights and responsibilities if we were really treated like a vehicle by law enforcement. (If I ever got a speeding ticket on a bike, I'd frame that puppy.)

We'll probably never find out, though...

[Grog]

I've thought that off and on for years. It's a matter of legitimacy. I wonder if bikes would be considered as a legitimate vehicle with rights and responsibilities if we were really treated like a vehicle by law enforcement. (If I ever got a speeding ticket on a bike, I'd frame that puppy.)

If you have a police officer point a radar at you, you'll have great grounds for a complaint!!! These things are meant to be directed to cars, not humans.