To go Custom or not...do today's mass-produced OTS bikes allow good enough geometry?

[SFLiz]

Hi. I'm new to this forum. I've never posted on a forum before but discovered this site this weekend. Many thanks in advance for reading. Could anyone who has experienced purchasing both custom and off the rack road bikes please opine on the value of both, in terms of fit/cost trade-off? I got fitted for a custom road bike but haven't made the leap because I've fallen into the bottomless rabbit hole of bike buying research. The price creep is dangerous. Originally I was leaning toward getting a custom Seven bike but my budget would limit my part set to SRAM Force and steel or possibly titanium (for another $800) frame. Already I'm looking at $4000-4800 range. Multiply that by two because my husband and I are buying at the same time and we're looking at over $10K. Painful chunk of change. My kitchen pantry addition is on the back burner yet another year.

But if I go OTS with let's say a Specialized Amira SL4, for around the $4800 price range I can get digital shifting and carbon frame (10r). (Equivalent for hubs is the Tarmac SL4 Expert UI2) And I know we really like the digital shifting because we rented two Trek Madone 5.9s and went on a hilly 50-miler and loved the shifting. After that, we were ruined. Jump to Ultegra Di2 would be another roughly $1300.

Question boils down to: do I really need a custom given what mass manufactures can do in today's industry? I don't have unique geometric needs. I'm 5'2". I'd probably get a 48cm Amira instead of a 51 because I'm slightly outstretched on the 51. On the Trek Madone I rented a 50cm and I was much too outstretched for my preference and comfort. The Seven frame of course would be outstanding. But you pay a lot for custom and Seven's quality obviously. They don't have the advantages of volume purchasing of raw materials. Specialized can cut costs with the carbon pricing they are able to get with their weight.

BTW, if I sound like an idiot, that's because I am in this realm. I'm new to road bikes and fairly new to bikes in general. I was never allowed to ride a bike around as a kid (my mom was completely paranoid and believed I'd get snatched up from outside our house). I didn't start riding until a couple of years ago (at age 37) after a lifetime of distance running, when I bought my first bike - a mountain bike and shipped it to Australia. While living there I also bought a flat bar tank (the cheapest money could buy - it cost around $500) and rode that puppy all around Sydney for a year and had a ball doing it. We joined a bike group while there as well and went on rides almost every weekend. I moved back to CA and have been riding all over San Francisco with my MTB for about last 1.5 years. After the hills kicked my arse over and over with my knobby tires, I switched to smoother Continentals and this has really allowed for more enjoyable rides as they roll much, much better. My MTB is fairly heavy - around 29lbs. I really want a road bike to better enjoy my rides across the bridge over to Marin headlands. I've also done these rides with a cheap folding bike (Breezer) and it's fun as well. But...when I tried the Madone, I got over to Tiburon so much incredibly faster and easier than my past rides with my MTB or folding bike, convincing me it was time to take the plunge and buy a road bike.

I'll be using my roadie for enjoyment, not racing. But that being said, I do like to roll fast and in a sick way, I quite enjoy the pain of a tortuous climb. Rides would be typically 50 or so miles with plenty of winding hills. I want to keep this road bike for a long time; I don't want to lust over new models every year. I don't want to change bikes every few years. I want to be happy with my bike for the rest of my riding years. That's why I thought custom but then I'd have to go titanium at best with lesser components (not that SRAM Force or Ultegra 6700 is bad -- they are good sets).

I also am thinking about upgrading our wheel-sets to zipps (but I don't want tubular!) for little more umph in speed. That's another chunk of change. At least 202s but....more $$

Any opinions would be greatly welcomed and appreciated. Thanks.

[indysteel]

There are a few reasons that someone needs to go custom versus mass produced: They have physical issues that cannot be addressed without a custom build; they want a feature or features that are not readily available in mass produced bikes, e.g., S & S couplers for travel; or they want a specific frame material that isn't readily available in the mass market, e.g, steel and ti. There are probably additional reasons, but those are what come to my mind.

Otherwise, it's largely a question of want. Now, I take no issue with those wants. I've drooled over way too many custom bikes to ever criticize somebody for going that route when they could otherwise buy an off-the- rack bike. Some legitimately want something unique, and that's a valid reason in my book. But I think it's important to appreciate that there is a risk with a custom bike that it won't end up being the bike of one's dream bike. I can attest to that, and I know of a few others on TE who were ultimately unhappy with a custom bike. It can be a costly mistake, just as any bike purchase can be. Any time you can test ride a bike, especially if you can go on a long test ride, before buying you are at an advantage IMO.

I don't know if that helps you navigate what you want. I, personally, might be very happy with a carbon bike that was well short of top of the line, so I think there may be some benefit to figuring out what you really need/want in a bike--not what your budget can theoretically allow. In other words, don't just spend a princely sum because you can. Figure out if the various upgrades make sense for how and where you ride. If you do that wisely, maybe your pantry won't have to put off for another year!

Also, in running your numbers, I wasn't clear whether you were also factoring in wheels in terms of the cost of custom. That can add another $600+ dollars (or well more) pretty easily.

[SFLiz]

I, personally, might be very happy with a carbon bike that was well short of top of the line, so I think there may be some benefit to figuring out what you really need/want in a bike--not what your budget can theoretically allow. In other words, don't just spend a princely sum because you can. Figure out if the various upgrades make sense for how and where you ride. If you do that wisely, maybe your pantry won't have to put off for another year!

I hear you loud and clear, Indysteel and believe me, I don't want to spend more than I need. I just have hit the wall in terms of finding that I can't get a less costly bike (custom or OTR) with digital shifting, which is the one thing I have managed to decide that I both want and 'need' (relatively speaking, that is ) due to the terrain I normally will encounter when I ride. I so want my pantry if only I could figure out how to lower the bike expense.

[maillotpois]

digital shifting, which is the one thing I have managed to decide that I both want and 'need' (relatively speaking, that is ) due to the terrain I normally will encounter when I ride.

Curious why this is such a priority for you? What is it that makes this a necessity?

[SFLiz]

Curious why this is such a priority for you? What is it that makes this a necessity?

Well, it's mostly an indication of my low experience level but because we do ride through quite a bit of hilly terrain, there's a lot of shifting involved on a regular basis throughout our rides. I get a little anxious with the frequent up/down shifting when I'm a little late and there's the announcement of my inadequacies through the squirm-inducing sounds of chain crunching. The digital shifters I tried were so fast at shifting, it forgave my mis-shifts. The shifting felt really nice! After I rode with them, I went back to riding mechanical shifters and it was tough to forget the electronic shifting sensation in comparison.

[indysteel]

I'm with those who have expressed concern over your lack of experience. I think you may have a hard time expressing what you want to a builder. It also concerns me that you are fixated on digital shifting when some additional time in the saddle will help you learn how and when to shift. It's really not a hard thing to pick up. As Tulip has suggested, get a stock bike that fits and go ride. Don't overthink it and disabuse yourself of the notion that the bike has to be the end all be all. If after riding for a few years you still feel the itch for custom, then investigate that route. By that time you'll have a better idea of how you want it to fit and handle.

[maillotpois]

Well, it's mostly an indication of my low experience level but because we do ride through quite a bit of hilly terrain, there's a lot of shifting involved on a regular basis throughout our rides. I get a little anxious with the frequent up/down shifting when I'm a little late and there's the announcement of my inadequacies through the squirm-inducing sounds of chain crunching. The digital shifters I tried were so fast at shifting, it forgave my mis-shifts. The shifting felt really nice! After I rode with them, I went back to riding mechanical shifters and it was tough to forget the electronic shifting sensation in comparison.

I'd suggest mastering regular shifting first, working on your skills, before immediately beginning to rely on technology to do it for you. It'll make you a better cyclist.

To that end, I've done a lot of skills coaching, used to coach century riders and Death Ride for TNT and would be happy to take you out and work on skills some day if you want to shoot me a PM. We do have plenty of hills, and I suspect you'll be so much happier with your riding if you work on those skills. I ride very high end bikes and wouldn't dream of putting my money into electronic shifting. I'd rather put it into a super frame or Campy record or great wheels. Not that there's anything wrong with it - and I know there are a few folks here who have it. But all of them were cyclists who had mastered the basic skills before buying the electronic.

[Crankin]

I have both a custom titanium bike (Guru) with Ultegra/105 and a stock carbon Kuota with a lot of modification for me, as it's a unisex frame.
I love both. You won't regret the custom, but the carbon will meet your needs. Can't speak for the electronic shifting, but money spent on custom is well spent.

[indysteel]

I have both a custom titanium bike (Guru) with Ultegra/105 and a stock carbon Kuota with a lot of modification for me, as it's a unisex frame.
I love both. You won't regret the custom, but the carbon will meet your needs. Can't speak for the electronic shifting, but money spent on custom is well spent.

Often it's worth the expense, but I have a $3500 custom ti frame hanging on my basement wall that rides like a torture device. So, you never know. Still, I'll likely go custom again if and when I want a new steel frame. So, don't put too much stock on my sour grapes!

[TigerMom]

Nice, large bike budget that you have.

I'm a newbie, but my sister has officially given me the title of "bike nerd".

So, my personal opinion is that if you are a very flexible, athletic person that does not have any funky anatomy and if you have tried riding all the brands of bikes that you are interested in and they all fit, then you probably do NOT need to go custom. Get that Ultegra Di2 that you are drooling over along with the better wheelset instead of the Custom bike with lower grade components. Also, since the 2013 are in, a lot of LBS are selling their 2011-2012 bikes at a discount

Big warning....I am a newbie. But I still want to see a bike photo to celebrate with you when you decide.
____________________________________

2012 Specialized Amira Elite, upgraded carbon handle bars, Jett saddle 143mm switched to 145mm 2012 Selle Italia Max SLR Gel Flow saddle

2011 Specialized Ariel Sport,suspension post,Serfas Rx Women's Microfiber saddle

[SFLiz]

Nice, large bike budget that you have.

I'm a newbie, but my sister has officially given me the title of "bike nerd".

So, my personal opinion is that if you are a very flexible, athletic person that does not have any funky anatomy and if you have tried riding all the brands of bikes that you are interested in and they all fit, then you probably do NOT need to go custom. Get that Ultegra Di2 that you are drooling over along with the better wheelset instead of the Custom bike with lower grade components. Also, since the 2013 are in, a lot of LBS are selling their 2011-2012 bikes at a discount

Big warning....I am a newbie. But I still want to see a bike photo to celebrate with you when you decide.
____________________________________

2012 Specialized Amira Elite, upgraded carbon handle bars, Jett saddle 143mm switched to 145mm 2012 Selle Italia Max SLR Gel Flow saddle

2011 Specialized Ariel Sport,suspension post,Serfas Rx Women's Microfiber saddle

Thanks TigerMom - for sure, I'll post a photo .... that is, if I am ever able to decide....it feels overwhelming. The more info I gather, the more I wish I never started down this rabbit hole.

Hey, my mom lives in RHts area (Walnut)!!

[tulip]

And remember that there's not only one right answer. There are plenty of bikes out there that will be just fine, not just one. Just go ride some. Fight the analysis paralysis.

[GLC1968]

I closely considered custom when I first started riding seriously because I am a tough fit. I went through 2 nice road bikes before I found my dream bike. And it's not custom at all. I've since stopped looking at nice road bikes and fancy frames except to admire them. I don't want them because I love my road bike more than I love my car (and that's saying something!). There are two things that have let me fall in love with my bike: 1) my road bike is unique and I've never seen another one like it in real life and 2) my road bike was as close as I could get to a perfect geometry for me and then I paid a lot of money for a spot-on fit. It rides like a dream and it fits me like a glove.

My road bike is dated. It's a 2005. It runs 9-speed Ultegra. It doesn't have fancy wheels nor is it 'tricked out' at all. It is Ti, but it's painted, so you'd never know unless you rode it (or read the label). But it's unique and it works for my needs 100%. Because of all this, I've stopped looking at other bikes and I can't imagine how any other bike could be better for me. That means, I bought the right bike. It wasn't the most expensive. It wasn't top of the line. And yet, I'm not swayed by those bikes because I love mine so much.

My point is similar to Indy's. The best bike for you is the RIGHT bike for you. Having the best of everything will not guarantee that you won't keep shopping around. And having custom won't guarantee that it'll be the perfect bike for you. It's really a shopping process and I can speak from experience in that when you get it right, it's right and you'll know it!

[maillotpois]

The only advice I'd add is to shop around and try several different bikes, perhaps beyond those you've listed. It seems you're in the Bay Area, so I can highly recommend Studio Velo in Mill Valley and Bicycle Odyssey in Sausalito. Both of those shops have an excellent and well deserved reputation for bike fitting, which is really the key whether the bike's custom or off the rack.

Good luck.

[SFLiz]

The only advice I'd add is to shop around and try several different bikes, perhaps beyond those you've listed. It seems you're in the Bay Area, so I can highly recommend Studio Velo in Mill Valley and Bicycle Odyssey in Sausalito. Both of those shops have an excellent and well deserved reputation for bike fitting, which is really the key whether the bike's custom or off the rack.

Good luck.

Thanks maillotpois / Sarah. Since you're in the area, any opinions on Mikes Bikes in Sausalito? I got my fitting done at Bespoke in the city. It was one of those detailed fittings that took 3 hrs - analysis of flexibility, biomechanics, injuries, measurements, feet/arches, ride form, power generation, etc. I just got that done last weekend but I get a sense that the fitting was more focused toward something that could be translated for Seven since Bespoke only does custom bikes.