Brook B17 Imperial -- Can it be softer later?

[wildeny]

I started to try Brook B17 Imperial (men's edition) saddle and hoped that this would be better for my long distance cycling (1200k).

When I got it, I immediately noticed the problem of its design (later). Anyway, I finally got it installed and tried it few times on the roller. Geeze, it's so hard! The most uncomfortable part is on the cut-out, where the edge is hard and not pliable (especially the front cut-out). I have started to think that maybe I should try the B17 without the cut-out.

The owners of B17 Imperial, can you tell me whether the hardness on the edge would be softer when I ride more often? I had applied the proofide several times but it's still very hard. (BTW, which side is the finished side of leather? ) I will appreciate your comments.

Now back to the design problem mentioned above. The short rails on this saddle doesn't not fit well for shorter rider with a small bike frame. I'm 5'2.5" and the seat tube angle of my bike is 75 deg, so with regular setback seat tube (20mm) the saddle's position is still too forward for me. I then found that many people complained about this (I never thought of this). In order to try this saddle, I had to buy a new seat post with farther setback (30mm). I'd say this is poor design from Brooks.

Side-by-side view. almost 1cm difference.

[KnottedYet]

Well, the design is over 100 years old, from the days when the bike geometry gave you more set back and the seat clamp was a completely different animal.

The finished side of the full thickness leather is the side with the nice smooth finish - the top side. (hair side on the steer)
The unfinished side of the leather is the side that is rough with no nice smooth finish - the bottom side. (meat side on the steer)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Now you know why I recommend against the Brooks shorter-railed "S" models- they are even shorter than the men's versions!

Are you wearing your normal chamois when you experience this? Is it just an 'odd new feeling' or is it actually uncomfortable?

Do you feel you really need a cut-out? When the saddle is harder, like a Brooks, it holds your sitbones up better so you don't sink into the saddle as much as with padded saddles. This might mean you don't need a cutout as much. Something to think about.

Brooks' leather is hard so that it will slowly form to your sitbones over time. It won't ever get 'soft' and that's intentional. You might want to either try a B17 without the cutout, or try a Selle Anatomica which has thinner leather with a cutout and acts more like a hammock.

[wildeny]

Thanks, KnottedYet:

Now I know I should apply the proofide on the top side. (I applied on both side :P).

Now you know why I recommend against the Brooks shorter-railed "S" models- they are even shorter than the men's versions!.

Good advice!

Are you wearing your normal chamois when you experience this? Is it just an 'odd new feeling' or is it actually uncomfortable?

Do you feel you really need a cut-out? When the saddle is harder, like a Brooks, it holds your sitbones up better so you don't sink into the saddle as much as with padded saddles. This might mean you don't need a cutout as much. Something to think about.

Brooks' leather is hard so that it will slowly form to your sitbones over time. It won't ever get 'soft' and that's intentional. You might want to either try a B17 without the cutout, or try a Selle Anatomica which has thinner leather with a cutout and acts more like a hammock.

The one I wore on the roller is a little bit on the thin side (old short) but it's all right when I use my original saddle -- Specialized Romin SL.

I do need a cut-out. I like this Romin SL very mucht. Right now, by looking at the profile of the saddle, I think the Broooks one is still not close to Romin.

However, my main problem is not because the hardness on the back of the saddle but the edge of cut-out. It's so uncomfortable that even though I still feel it from the one-hour exercise last night.

If the Brooks' leather doesn't get soft ever, then ...

I will adjust the angle to see whether it can easy the discomfort a little bit.

[Biciclista]

I can't figure out why the cut out is bugging you so much. I have one on my B68 imperial too. Perhaps you need to tilt the nose UP? put your weight on your sit bones?

[wildeny]

Ya, that's what I'm going to try next: tilt the nose up a little bit.
But, do you feel the edge of cut-out on your B68 Imperial when you sit on it?

[Biciclista]

I can barely feel it. I did a 68 mile ride saturday and on a short incline i crunched a little and felt it, but it was a minor discomfort that faded.
it sounds like you have too much pressure on the front. and bummer about the short rails!

[wildrover]

I can't figure out why the cut out is bugging you so much. I have one on my B68 imperial too.

Since Christmas, I've gone thru (i.e. 'tested') a Team Pro S, a Flyer, a B67 and have finally 'settled' on a B68 Imperial. Of the 4 of these, and the 2 B17 saddles my husband has, the pebbled leather on the B67 and the B68 is definitely softer.

Thanks your experiences with the lacing Soprano, I was wondering what to expect! When Brooks came out with this saddle again a few years ago, they sent out a bunch of saddles for riders to test and review. I wish I could find that forum again, now that I own one of these, and the lacing often came up in the reviews. Does anyone remember where it is?

Regarding angle of saddle: I've been tilting the nose of the saddle up as well. I think it is because I'm a heavier rider, on a softer leather saddle. I don't like to have that much pressure on my hands, trying to keep the pressure off tender parts.

Thank you all for posting your experiences with the Brooks saddles! I think I've read (and used) every post and piece of advice.

[wildeny]

Thanks for many comments.

I haven't tried to adjust the angle yet. This weekend I switched back to my trusty Specialized Romin SL for long rides. If I used B17 Imperial, I wouldn't complete the ride.

wildrover, thanks for the link. I also know this try-out but couldn't find the other link as well.

When I checked again on the reviews in Brooks web site. Some people also felt uncomfortable on the edge of the cut-out. These seem be the ones who gave lower rating and were not satisfied with the saddle. Maybe I'm like them.

It's really disappointing. I tried B17 Imperial because I would want a comfortable saddle for long distance rides (600k+, even 1200k!). The whole set (saddle and its "special" seatpost) weight much more than my original setup. This weight is nothing on the flat road but would have some disadvantage in the climbing.

[wildeny]

Report back my recent experience.

On my third trial last Sat, I rode it on rollers doing aerobic TT test and found the riding experience had been improved. Before that I used hairdryer & proofide twice and forget about it for a while (because I had other cycling events).

Based on this good experience, on Sunday, I took it for 45k ride outdoors. Overall it's good. The edge of the cut-off was not as sharp as before, though it's still not soft enough either.

Maybe the leather has been softened a little somehow. Or maybe it's the small angle I adjusted after the first two trials. It might be because the first two trials on the roller - Isolate-Leg & Spin Step-ups training, put lots of pressure on the front.

Anyway, I will still try Brook B17 Imperial on longer courses later (after this Sat event).

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Wildeny,
It is sounding good for you so far- it will only improve more!
be generous about rubbing in more Pruf-hyde around the areas you want to soften- apply both on top of saddle and underneath. It won't really 'soften' the leather, but it WILL help the leather to shape itself comfortably to your personal body contours. That's what the Brooks leather is all about.