Cobb Saddles

[vness]

has anyone looked into this?
from http:www.cobbcycling.com
according to Cobb:

In high performance road bikes or triathlon bikes, there is a large difference in the seating positions compared to a more recreational type of bicycle. In the case of a triathlon bike, the rider is rotated much more forward, riding on a completely different part of the Pelvis area. The VFlow range of seats are designed for performance riding, they are not the best choice for a Beach cruiser. The narrow rear section is especially great at relieving pressure from the hamstring muscle and the upper adductors. These pressure points are two of the leading causes of leg cramps and low back pain.
When making seats for women, it is very common for other saddle makers to promote the fact that the rear is wider and the nose is shorter on their seats. This is just completely wrong thinking for a woman performance cyclist. With the use of a Form Sensor Aray TekScan unit, I was able to plot the exact skin pressure points over the area that a female rider actually uses. Many women riders have a shorter torso length than men comparatively, they also commonly have thicker upper thighs and face real issues with pubic bone and “soft tissue” comfort. By analyzing the pressure points, by hand cutting many saddles and by listening to the riders inputs, I have come up with a saddle that offers a huge leap in rider comfort. Women need for their upper legs to be able to swing further back on the saddle, especially while riding on aero bars or on the drops.
Seats that have a wide rear area will force the rider to move forward on the nose of the seat, this is not a comfortable position and leads to very high Pubic bone area stress. Most seat manufacturers promote that if your sit bones are 130mm or 145mm then you need a seat that is at least that wide. Think about how you ride your bike, when you’re on the drops or on the aero bars, you are rotated well forward of the sit bones. The rider will roll forward on to the Rams horns of the pelvis bone, this area is generally from 70mm to 100mm wide at the maximum. Women cyclist can feel the upper thigh interference and that relates to unpleasant higher soft tissue pressures. A narrower seat design will really work.

his saddles are quite narrow.. one of the reasons I've been afraid to try them as a 130mm did feel too narrow for me. I'm currently using a 134mm and have just started to have problems. Wider saddles seemed to be worse.

There is also a lot of interesting information on the set-up section of his website.

My hips naturally roll through and "lay down" on a saddle, esp. when in the drops. I also have my saddle tipped slightly downward - wondering if changing that as he suggests, might help.

I seem to have entered (or re-entered) saddle hell. The one I was using, while not perfect, wasn't causing any harm. Suddenly I'm getting all kinds of sores.

also looking at a Prologo Ladies Choice... anyone riding a Prologo? They also make a saddle that's a lot like a Ruby/Toupe, but in between the size of 130 - 143mm. Interesting possibility

I hate starting over again... sigh. Bad time of year as I need to be on the road, not nursing sores!!

The whole thing regarding just using sitbone measurements hasn't really helped me. I definitely feel them but as I rarely sit up, the bulk of my weight isn't using them for sole support. I've measured them many times but can't remember what they are - "I think" I was about 120mm? On the Specialized Butt-o-meter, I think I came in as a 143mm - but they never worked for me!!

any and all feedback would be appreciated

thanks
namaste,
v

[KnottedYet]

If you know you ride on your pubic rami more than on your ischial tuberosities, you probably want to look at something with a very wide and padded nose and a very gradual transition from "sit" to nose. The rami are sharp and thin, while the tuberosities are thick and blunt and heavily built up. The width at the back won't really matter because with that much anterior pelvic tilt your hip joint simply can't extend that far anyway and I just can't see the hamstring getting into trouble.

There is a very good split-nose saddle that I've suggested to a few of my clients who ride aero: http://www.bikewagon.com/ISM-Adamo-C...-p8176886.html They seem to like it. It is a little wider than what you are considering, but it is certainly designed more for rami than ischial tuberosities.

Don't forget a woman's pubic rami are at a different angle than a man's (theirs angle backwards more than ours) so you may need to monkey around with shape and nose width quite a bit before you find perfection, so don't give up!

[nscrbug]

vness,

I have tried a Cobb V-Flow Plus. I previously rode a Cervelo Carbon Soloist and had the Cobb saddle put on before I even took the bike home from the LBS. I rode that saddle for 300 miserable miles before returning it. For me, it WAS too narrow. I had extreme sitbone pain and numbing. It was NOT the saddle for me. However, Cobb has a 180-day return policy...so if you suspect that it might work for you, you really have nothing to lose in trying it. I can say this...it definitely felt better riding the Cobb in aero, than it did upright. It's very popular amongst the triathlon crowd, so it makes sense that it would feel better in aero, as it is designed with a wide and heavily padded nose.

I also have ridden a ProLogo saddle (the Kappa Dea). This saddle came stock on my 2010 Cannondale Synapse Carbon Fem 3, that I recently purchased. I tried to like this saddle, but sadly, it too felt too narrow for me...causing the same sitbone pain/numbing. I don't know how this saddle compares to the "Choice" model you are considering. I believe the width on it is 138mm, but I could be wrong on that. I have been unable to really find much information on ProLogo saddles.

Hope this helps somewhat.

Linda

[vness]

vness,

I have tried a Cobb V-Flow Plus. I previously rode a Cervelo Carbon Soloist and had the Cobb saddle put on before I even took the bike home from the LBS. I rode that saddle for 300 miserable miles before returning it. For me, it WAS too narrow. I had extreme sitbone pain and numbing. It was NOT the saddle for me. However, Cobb has a 180-day return policy...so if you suspect that it might work for you, you really have nothing to lose in trying it. I can say this...it definitely felt better riding the Cobb in aero, than it did upright. It's very popular amongst the triathlon crowd, so it makes sense that it would feel better in aero, as it is designed with a wide and heavily padded nose.

I also have ridden a ProLogo saddle (the Kappa Dea). This saddle came stock on my 2010 Cannondale Synapse Carbon Fem 3, that I recently purchased. I tried to like this saddle, but sadly, it too felt too narrow for me...causing the same sitbone pain/numbing. I don't know how this saddle compares to the "Choice" model you are considering. I believe the width on it is 138mm, but I could be wrong on that. I have been unable to really find much information on ProLogo saddles.

Hope this helps somewhat.

Linda

thank you for replying. I agree that they do seem too narrow at 130mm. What I can't figure out is how the basic Cobb version is also the heaviest!

re: Prologo: The Choice version I was looking at was a women's specific saddle. But honestly, I don't have any "good" reasons for thinking a Prologo would work. Just interested in them I guess, and hoping I could ride something nice & light. I hate that I may end up with something heavy & ugly - yes, I do think the Cobbs are a bit unsightly LOL

Even the Adamos are heavier and bigger (thicker), but I do think I may look into them.

I guess I'll be researching tri saddles now, even though I don't use aerobars. Wondering what else is out there... as I said though, this is such a bad time to be dealing with this... right in the middle of my season.... though at least it's a couple of months before all the Centuries start!

How do you like the SLK?

Thanks again for your input. Yes, everything helps :)

namaste,
vness

[KnottedYet]

That's just the best picture I could find, I don't suggest that particular model. (I like good pictures)

As the pelvis rolls forward (into aero) the weight shifts from the tuberosities to the rami.

Normal saddles put you on the tuberosities, that's what you sit on. With anterior pelvic tilt you shift onto the rami, which angle in to the pubic symphysis.

The Adamo saddles are popular with my patients who tend to be in anterior pelvic tilt, and know they are on their rami more than the tuberosities. In fact, it was a patient who first told me about them.

It's far more important that you use your knowlege than that you follow anyone's opinion that worries you. If you know you are on your rami, look for saddles that will support your rami. If a saddle freaks you out because some man a foot taller than you describes how it supports him and it's not how YOU want to be supported, then don't try it. But bear in mind it might fit you a little differently... sometimes men and women can have radically different experiences on the same saddle.

[Owlie]

It must be lunch time. I keep reading this as "Cobb Salads."

I have nothing more to add.

[vness]

That's just the best picture I could find, I don't suggest that particular model. (I like good pictures)

As the pelvis rolls forward (into aero) the weight shifts from the tuberosities to the rami.

Normal saddles put you on the tuberosities, that's what you sit on. With anterior pelvic tilt you shift onto the rami, which angle in to the pubic symphysis.

The Adamo saddles are popular with my patients who tend to be in anterior pelvic tilt, and know they are on their rami more than the tuberosities. In fact, it was a patient who first told me about them.

It's far more important that you use your knowlege than that you follow anyone's opinion that worries you. If you know you are on your rami, look for saddles that will support your rami. If a saddle freaks you out because some man a foot taller than you describes how it supports him and it's not how YOU want to be supported, then don't try it. But bear in mind it might fit you a little differently... sometimes men and women can have radically different experiences on the same saddle.

according to the ISM website:
The saddles are designed for the rider to place all of his/her weight on the sit bones. As with all nose less saddles, the ISM saddles place pressure on the sit bones. The sit bones are covered with muscle, which must be conditioned before you achieve maximum comfort. The amount of time for muscle conditioning varies amongst riders. The doctors have compared the muscle soreness to a weight workout and no damage is being done to the body.

so obviously I'm confused by this statement, as I can't imagine not putting my weight on my rami, since that's what my pelvis rolls onto when riding.

are there saddles which specifically support the rami? Do the women you work with who are using this saddle say they are on their rami and not the ischial tuberosities? Is anyone turning it slightly as well? (something else I read on ISM's website)

thank you for your patience. I'm sorry if I sound like an idiot... and no, it's not 6' tall men I'm listening too LOL I'm reading everything

[vness]

If you know you ride on your pubic rami more than on your ischial tuberosities, you probably want to look at something with a very wide and padded nose and a very gradual transition from "sit" to nose. The rami are sharp and thin, while the tuberosities are thick and blunt and heavily built up. The width at the back won't really matter because with that much anterior pelvic tilt your hip joint simply can't extend that far anyway and I just can't see the hamstring getting into trouble.

There is a very good split-nose saddle that I've suggested to a few of my clients who ride aero: http://www.bikewagon.com/ISM-Adamo-C...-p8176886.html They seem to like it. It is a little wider than what you are considering, but it is certainly designed more for rami than ischial tuberosities.

Don't forget a woman's pubic rami are at a different angle than a man's (theirs angle backwards more than ours) so you may need to monkey around with shape and nose width quite a bit before you find perfection, so don't give up!

thank you for the suggestion... Adamo saddles have been suggested before and I always thought it looked like it just wouldn't work.... way too wide in the nose, for one thing. That said & considering what I've been using isn't working, I'm re-considering my objections & thinking about giving it a try (she says cautiously... I keep reading that it can be hard to dial in & unfortunately $'s tight these days... though it is hard to put a price tag on not being hurt on the bike and being able to just focus solely on performance instead of squirming around all the time)

I am curious why you suggested the Century as it's fairly wide at 145mm. I've been to ISM's website and of course am drooling over the lighter versions (Breakaway & Peloton). Even the Road is only 135mm wide.

You mention that it's designed more for rami, yet all the info I've found says just the opposite... that it puts you directly on your ischial tuberosities! In fact, that's supposed to be the hardest thing to get used to.

I've also read that a lot of people pull the sides in to narrow it. I'm only 5'1" and have the additional misfortune of being ummmm... "amply padded" up front, which certainly doesn't help.

Should I also be looking into tri saddles in general? I've always thought a wide nose would drive me crazy.

Thank you so much for your input. It's really appreciated.

namaste,
vness