West & East divide-cycling issues, non-car issues

[shootingstar]

Is there a knowledge gap in the U.S. between Seattle/Portland/San Francisco and what happens in NYC/Boston/Washington on cycling infrastructure, mass transit system developments?

It continues to amaze me after living, working and cycling (last 14 yrs.) for 20 yrs. in Toronto, now living in Vancouver since 2002, the lack of knowledge of what many Vancouverites know about Toronto and what Toronto knows about Vancouver ..on cycling infrastructure and mass transit issues.

It has resulted in some strange debates here in Vancouver..people who support aboveground elevated light rail, (instead of underground, which I know is more expensive...), streetcars/trams for really long distances in busy congested travel corridors, ungated transit stations, etc. Long, exhausting arguments, justifications, etc.

On the other side, I feed info. to a friend in Ontario who lives in Toronto and works in transportation policy, about Vancouver developments.

Maybe it's too much info. for folks on Internet, so people can only know what's happening locally. If they know at all the right info.

Maybe it's attitude of some WEst coast people about the East and vice versa. I dunno.

[Grog]

I am experiencing the East-West at work these days (on a totally different topic) and it never ceases to amaze me. In my line of work it often starts with the West people thinking that the East people think the West people are dumb, and the West people deciding not to share anything with the East people anymore, preferring to deal with neighbours in the PNW instead.

This being said, I feel that the urban fabric of the Eastern cities is very, very different from that of the Western ones. Of course we can learn from one another, and we should. I like subscribing to the World Carfree Network's magazine and mailing list because of all the amazing stuff I learn there.

On the other hand I don't think there's anything such as "right information." What worked in one place doesn't necessarily work in another.

For example the mere fact that cities like Montreal and Boston have existed for 400 years (compared to about 100 for Vancouver) make a big difference in infrastructure matters. In the same vein, I'm all for 'Copenhagenizing,' but the truth is that the variables are TOTALLY different here and solutions can't be imported without some serious thought if we want them to work. The density of cities is also very, very different.

[shootingstar]

the West people deciding not to share anything with the East people anymore, preferring to deal with neighbours in the PNW instead.

This being said, I feel that the urban fabric of the Eastern cities is very, very different from that of the Western ones. Of course we can learn from one another, and we should. I like subscribing to the World Carfree Network's magazine and mailing list because of all the amazing stuff I learn there.

On the other hand I don't think there's anything such as "right information." What worked in one place doesn't necessarily work in another.

For example the mere fact that cities like Montreal and Boston have existed for 400 years (compared to about 100 for Vancouver) make a big difference in infrastructure matters. In the same vein, I'm all for 'Copenhagenizing,' but the truth is that the variables are TOTALLY different here and solutions can't be imported without some serious thought if we want them to work. The density of cities is also very, very different.

I do see too much of the Western side of North America just tending to share alot more willingly on mass transportation, etc. Somehow I attribute to convenience, same time zone. I dunno. or maybe it's a shared vibe thing. Why on earth is there such little discussion among Vancouverites/Americans, on what has happened in Montreal with Velo Quebec in cycling infrastructure planning on west coast? I heard more about it in Ontario. Ottawa has done some good work, yet we hardly hear about developments discussed here on the west coast. Velo Quebec has been years ahead running their organization like..a business.

I agree the urban fabric, particularily the big metropolitan cities over 1 million in Toronto, Montreal are each very different. I was looking at some personal photos of the ethnic neighbourhoods in Toronto, Kensington, Greektown, Little Italy... Commercial St. in Vancouver does not compare. Not at all. Just totally different, more dense, more diverse than Vancouver. Cycling around in Toronto, one feels a far great hyperactive energy/pacing (despite greater traffic congestion and slowness of cars) and abit edgier for barely controlled chaos of urban life.

Abit off topic: The other day, I read that Sam Adams, mayor for Portland, OR wanted to compare his city to ...Freiburg, Germany. It just makes a person laugh. We will be going there in June for a few days. Dearie, who understands the German cities vibe a whole lot more since he has been to several German towns and cities several trips, can't even understand this type of green city comparison. Sure Freiburg is bike friendly and has some other great things going that make it green, but it a medieval based town steeped in history, with its old town square, castle, etc. and much smaller. Cannot compare really compare to any North American city. Would Quebec City be comparable??? Probably not (what a windy city to bike around).

[crazycanuck]

Same situation down this way.

The grass is not greener out east!

[shootingstar]

Same situation down this way.

The grass is not greener out east!

You mean Sydney is viewed as "too much" of everyting else bad about cities? It's the "bad boy" or "bad girl" of Aussieland? Or you're talking about way east past the Pacific Ocean?

[NbyNW]

My first year in Seattle, the Monorail was dying a slow painful death. I remember a conversation where one woman I was chatting with felt it was the wrong thing for Seattle because "East Coast intellectuals shouldn't parachute in here and all of a sudden be an expert on what Seattle needs."

While I've never been exactly sure what she was basing this on, I thought her statement spoke volumes about the tensions between east and west.

To the extent that people aren't curious about things that happen outside their back yards, sure, there can be a knowledge gap.

[Eden]

My first year in Seattle, the Monorail was dying a slow painful death. I remember a conversation where one woman I was chatting with felt it was the wrong thing for Seattle because "East Coast intellectuals shouldn't parachute in here and all of a sudden be an expert on what Seattle needs."

??? I grew up on the east coast (Pittsburgh to be exact) and I always thought the monorail was a bad idea.....
Things are definitely done differently out here. We did not have citizen's initiatives where I was growing up. I find it to be a bit, ah, inefficient.... I mean we vote in people we expect to be experts (or to be able to hire experts) to make the hard decisions...... ask the citizens and getting a rational or quick answer is not always (often not) possible, but maybe that's just the east coast in me talking

[NbyNW]

??? I grew up on the east coast (Pittsburgh to be exact) and I always thought the monorail was a bad idea.....
Things are definitely done differently out here. We did not have citizen's initiatives where I was growing up. I find it to be a bit, ah, inefficient.... I mean we vote in people we expect to be experts (or to be able to hire experts) to make the hard decisions...... ask the citizens and getting a rational or quick answer is not always (often not) possible, but maybe that's just the east coast in me talking

That was pretty much my reaction too -- it was a citizen's initiative and then this woman was blaming the mess on some perceived "outsider(s)". Maybe it said more about her than about Seattle, I don't know.

[OakLeaf]

The Bike Snob in Portland pretty much sums up the east/west divide, even to the extent of being so dumbstruck he's incapable of being snobbish while in Portland.

[shootingstar]

Ach. We are going to Copenhagen for a few days, so I'll be curious to see this wonderful cycling-steeped city.

But my gut feel tells me powerfully that at least for cycling advocacy, things in certain big North American cities needs to be handled differently to encourage more people to cycle, not to be overly reliant on car for short trips, etc. Our population demographics are different for certain cities (big time in certain groups), marketing of cycling as viable transportation has to be done abit differently and of course, the basic bone structure of a city layout would offer different solutions that could be borrowed in parts from Copenhagen, but never completely.