Salsa Fargo - sad news

[Catrin]

I wanted to find SOME way of determining the fit of the Fargo before I fell more in love - and being that I can't find a small version in driving distance to try - I contacted the Serotta fitting specialist at my LBS who did a body fit on Stella for me.

I didn't expect such a quick response - and I have included it below. Some of this has my head spinning when I read it - but I think the gist of it is that he things there is little chance the even the small Fargo will fit me... here is what he said:

"When I compare your fitting data with the geometry chart of the Fargo, I find several things. If we were building you a custom frame we would build it with a 50cm top tube (or as close as possible). The smallest Fargo frame (16") has a 54cm top tube. The custom (50cm) top tube assumes a 120mm length stem, so going with Fargo would require going all the way down to an 80mm stem. Stems that short can change the handling (i.e. steering response) of a bike.

Another concern is stand-over clearance, the Fargo requires a minimum 77cm inseam and your inseam is 78cm. That's very close. Usually, it's ideal to have at least 4-5cm clearance for a loaded touring bike, especially one with a sloping top tube. Less than that and dismounting the loaded bike can be positively dangerous.

Next is the seat tube angle. Your current bike has about a 75 degree angle and you require a very small 3mm setback of the saddle nose to the center of the bottom bracket. The steeper seat tube angle greatly simplifies moving the saddle that far forward. The Fargo has a very laid-back (by comparison) 73 degree seat tube angle. I don't know if we can even adjust your saddle far enough forward on a Fargo to optimally position your knees over the pedal axles."

There was more, and of course he suggested a custom built Serotta, as well as a Trek and Cannondale model. But it looks to me from reading this that I would be foolish to spend $1,700 on the Fargo...sigh I really wanted that bike...

Perhaps there is another steel frame bike out there that will take both road and mountain bike tires that WILL fit me? Back to research

[Biciclista]

boy, you sound like you are about exactly my size. happy hunting!

[ginny]

ah, what a bummer. I'm sorry. Sometimes research just sucks! Though, it's much better to have an honest answer than a $1700 bike that doesn't fit (easy for me to say,right?)

[Catrin]

Yeah, everyone I talk to about fitting always gets around to the custom build idea. Their point is valid, non-custom bikes are build to fit the normal curve, so I will always have to compromise given my proportions - unless I go custom. And that is expensive... so lots of research is needed

[Tri Girl]

wow- so I'm guessing that the Fargo won't fit me, either from what he said... boo! I know you're disappointed. That bike is so great. Why can't they just make it one size smaller???

[Ritamarie]

Perhaps there is another steel frame bike out there that will take both road and mountain bike tires that WILL fit me? Back to research

Catrin, Have you looked at Surlys?

http://surlybikes.com/bikes/

Edited to add, right now I have big fat studded winter tires on my Cross Check and have road tires for it as well. I have the Gloss Black with ummm... just a few pink accents. :-)

[KnottedYet]

42cm Surly Long Haul Truckers have some big fans among the petite women.

$1,095. ($600 less than the Fargo) Bar end shifters, sturdy, mtb tires or smooth, can be fully loaded front and back with racks and panniers.

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showt...t=surly+review for a review of two TEers playing around with a 42 cm LHT.

ETA: comparing the requirements your fitter gave you and the geometry of the LHT, you could ride either the 42 or the 46. Don't be put off by the seat tube angle, because the touring geometry is going to set your saddle to peddle relationship differently it's almost irrelevant, you'll know how it works for your KOPS when you ride each.

[OakLeaf]

I'm not seeing anything in the proportions that you mentioned, anyway that are outside any so-called "normal curve." Unless they were talking about the middle of the bell curve for males.

You sound pretty much like my size, too. I don't have a heavy tourer (yet) either, but I had zero trouble fitting on any of several WSD road bikes.

I'm sorry you're not getting the bike you wanted , but I'm really happy you decided to find out whether it was going to fit you before ordering one!

[Aquila]

Sad news, indeed. But I'm really impressed with the LBS person who wrote you. S/he did a great service to you in taking the time to explain the issues.

I'm sorry your dream bike isn't likely to fit, though.

[Sylvia]

Try sending Terry bikes an email. Georgena is pretty good about getting back to people. I know she did with me when I was looking for a bike.

[BikeShopGirl]

Oh no, that is very sad news. Good luck in your bike hunt and if anything comes to my mind I'll be sure to let you know.

[Catrin]

42cm Surly Long Haul Truckers have some big fans among the petite women.

$1,095. ($600 less than the Fargo) Bar end shifters, sturdy, mtb tires or smooth, can be fully loaded front and back with racks and panniers.

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showt...t=surly+review for a review of two TEers playing around with a 42 cm LHT.

ETA: comparing the requirements your fitter gave you and the geometry of the LHT, you could ride either the 42 or the 46. Don't be put off by the seat tube angle, because the touring geometry is going to set your saddle to peddle relationship differently it's almost irrelevant, you'll know how it works for your KOPS when you ride each.

He didn't think the Surly Long Haul Trucker would work for me either...though he didn't say exactly why other than it was based on the geometry chart. I need to ask about that. More for me to check out

The fitter did suggest the Trek 520Touring bike, one of the Cannondale Touring bikes. I know he said the Long Haul Trucker wouldn't work for me, but I won't rule out until I find out why I have looked at the Surly Cross before - how does it do for long rides?

What does KOPS mean?

[KnottedYet]

He didn't think the Surly Long Haul Trucker would work for me either...though he didn't say exactly why other than it was based on the geometry chart. I need to ask about that. More for me to check out

The fitter did suggest the Trek 520Touring bike, one of the Cannondale Touring bikes. I know he said the Long Haul Trucker wouldn't work for me, but I won't rule out until I find out why I have looked at the Surly Cross before - how does it do for long rides?

What does KOPS mean?

Perhaps he was looking at a different chart for a different bike?

The LHT in size 42cm has a 49.26cm top tube (he says you need a 50cm)
and a 70.3 cm stand over (your inseam is 78cm)

The LHT in size 46cm has a 50.83 cm top tube, and a 72.38 stand over.

I find it fascinating that he dismissed the fairly independent Surly product out of hand (even though it has the wheels/tires of the Fargo which you like so much) yet recommends bikes of the same purpose and geometry from the larger corporations (and without the wheels/tires you said you like).

The Cross Check is excellent for long rides, though it cannot be loaded as heavily as the LHT and it is a bit more responsive (aka "squirrelly") than the LHT. Also, because of the higher bottom bracket of cyclocross geometry, the 42cm CC fits more like a 46cm LHT.

KOPS is "knee over pedal spindle". This is obliquely what he was referring to when he discussed seat tube angles with you. When your pedals are horizontal (9 o'clock and 3 o'clock) and the balls of your feet are centered on the pedal, a plumb bob dropped off the leading edge of your knee should line up at or slightly behind the pedal spindle. In other words (just like when you squat properly) your knee should not be hanging out in front of your toes. KOPS is dependent on such a HUGE variety of factors that it is pretty silly to dismiss a bike simply over seat tube angle.

You won't know if a bike is "right" for you until you've ridden it. Seriously, sizing and geometry charts only give you a guideline, you really need to ride all the different bikes. If you are interested in Surly, find an independent shop who carries them and take some test rides! More rides, more better! Lots of bike love!

ETA: here's the LHT info: http://surlybikes.com/bikes/long_haul_trucker_complete/ click the "geometry" tab and look at the chart for the 26 inch wheel bikes.

ETA #2: my CC is also gloss black, but with red accents. Mmmmm, tasty...

ETA #3: there are enough of us on TE who are trained fitters that you will be able to get lots of good info, so don't be shy about asking questions, ANY questions!

[HillSlugger]

I don't know about all the ramifications of his conclusions in real life, but don't be afraid of a stem under 80mm. I had a 65/30 degree on my race bike and I have no problems with handling.

[Ritamarie]

I have looked at the Surly Cross before - how does it do for long rides?

Catrin,

I've done a 100 mile ride on my Cross Check. I chose it over my road bike for that ride because there were some portions of the ride on the rail trail. It was great. I was lucky that there was a Surly dealer an hour from me and I was able to try one. Instant bike love.

My Cross Check is like the bike equivalent of an old pair of shoes. It's solid, it's stable, it doesn't get blown about by the wind. I feel safe on it. I had it built up special since I wanted flat bars and a triple on this bike. I would highly recommend the triple for what you are doing. I initially bought this as an all-rounder, a relatively inexpensive bike that I wouldn't mind getting dirty; that I could ride on the rail trail, commute on, put fat winter tires on, do a little touring. I'm even thinking of getting some fat knobbies for it and using it as a mountain bike! If I was to do it over, I would sink another few hundred dollars into it and choose better/lighter components, just because I'm spending more time on it than I thought I would! It weighs in at about 25 lbs now without bottle cages etc. (I think the Fargo you were looking at weighs in at about 27 lbs stripped.)

I am just a centimeter or two longer than you in the inseam and I have a 50cm Cross Check frame.

Meet "Ethel".... (Yeah she's a bit muddy in the pic, but that's her job!)