Another small hands situation...

[little_teapot]

Hi All,

This is my first post, but as many surely are, I'm a long time lurker. I've found quite a bit of info about similar small hands issues but perhaps not that that much about my exact issue.

I just bought my first road bike (hooray). Specialized Dolce Comp 09 at a great price. Found a shop I really like, they spent 2 hours setting me up, bike seems to fit well. In choosing bike/shop this was my main focus as I’m really short (5'2") and have read lots about fit here! After hitting the road a couple of times I've found that I’m having a bit of trouble braking with the rear brake (left hand- I'm in Australia, have since learnt this is opposite to the states).

Main issue seems to be small hands and poor leverage on the left (back) 105 shifter when I'm in the hoods (no problems in the drops). Makes for sore hand and poor braking strength on that side ... testing it out it takes me about twice the distance to stop using rear brake only compared to using the front brake only. My bike came with the shims inserted in the levers to reduce the reach- so no quick easy fix there. SO, the shop, who so far have been really good to me, recommended changing the shifters- 2 options:

*SRAM rival shifters and rear derailleur (the better option in his eyes). Apparently the pivot points are much higher on the shifters and this will make it easier to get better leverage, campy are similar but way more expensive.

*Ultegra shifters - no derailleur change required, but same cost as above. Better leverage, but not as good as SRAM? Bonus is I can test ride a bike with this setup, but not the SRAM (at least not at my shop... and not sure how easy it is to find small bike with SRAM here to test)

If I choose to do it, this unexpected upgrade will cost me a reasonable amount, and my budget is tight... but I'm happy to do it if will solve all my problems.

I have two friends, both guys, who I also trust and have asked their opinions (one is a mechanic in different bike shop). They both think that upgrading straight away with new bike isn’t cool, and are not that keen on the idea of adding some SRAM into an otherwise ‘pure’ 105 set up.

So, after that longwinded story, I think my questions are:
Is there a problem in general with adding a few SRAM parts to otherwise 105 set up? Any thoughts on SRAM vs Ultegra shifters (the latest version 6700?) for small hands and leverage etc from the hoods?

Thanks!

[OakLeaf]

it takes me about twice the distance to stop using rear brake only compared to using the front brake only.

This is the sentence that says to me that there's nothing wrong with your setup.

On a vehicle with front and rear wheel(s), about 75% of your braking power will come from your front brake. Think of the weight transfer under braking and the forces on your tires, and you'll understand why. Over time, you'll see that your front brake pads wear much more quickly than the rear.

Here's a site I just found on a quick google that explains weight transfer under braking pretty clearly. It's actually written about four-wheeled vehicles, but the physics don't change, it's just that you have other considerations when turning. Here's another more technically-oriented explanation.

Part of learning to ride is learning to modulate your brakes and using each of them in the correct proportion. On a flat piece of road with a good braking surface, you'll use your front brake much more than the rear. When the surface gets soft, you'll use less front brake (so as not to lock up your steering control), but consequently have much less overall braking power.


Another edit: Here's something really good and bicycle-specific from, believe it or not, the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation! Just google "bicycle weight transfer" as I did, and you come up with all sorts of good stuff.


(Another edit: Motorcycle sites are relevant to a point, but the one very important thing to remember is that on a bicycle, you stop pedaling when you're trying to slow down, whereas in a motorized vehicle, the engine is always turning and you have to apply the clutch to stop power transfer to the drive wheel(s). So the "highside," which is the most violent type of motorcycle crash, can't happen on a bicycle.)

[Ana]

I had 105 on my last bicycle and the shifters were quite large. Although I could brake in the drops, it hadn't even occurred to me that I might be able to brake in the hoods since it was so inconceivable based on the size of the shifters versus my hands. Basically, I did not realize how unsafe it was until I switched over to Campy, whose shifters are much smaller and fit my hands very well!

I am 5'3.5" with short arms/small hands and your situation seems quite normal to me from my experience

[MartianDestiny]

First and foremost realize that something like 70% of your braking power is in the FRONT wheel. It wouldn't matter if you were a 6ft male body builder; using the rear brake only will never provide you with the same stopping power as using the front brake (about twice the distance sounds about right).

A change in braking style *may* solve your issues. I ALWAYS use BOTH brakes and sometimes even just the front (don't do that unless you know your bike and know how much you can apply the front only without causing the bike to go arse over teakettle). I think of the back brake as a slow gradual stop or minor speed adjustments (about to overlap wheels in the pack, etc). If I need to STOP I grab the front brake (and the rear one too).

I have a set of cheapo shimano shift levers (probably tiagra, so lower than 105) and a set of Ultegra. The Ultegra's are nicer all around (as they should be), but I can stop the "el cheapo" bike fine. (and I have full shims and all that jazz as well).

Some other things you might want to discuss with the bike shop that could be cheaper solutions if just modifying braking technique doesn't work:

1) Not all brake pads are created totally equal. Change to some "nicer" pads and see if that makes a difference (and even buying something like Dura-ace level pads will only run you $30 or 40 MAX).

2) Change the rear brake caliper from 105 to something else with more leverage or that's more sensitive. Maybe even bump that up to Ultegra or a competing brand.

3) Have the shop play with cable tension and brake adjustment if they haven't already.

4) Play with the location of the levers on the bars. Moving them up a hair may give you a better grip from the hoods; just make sure it doesn't make them too far out for you when you are in the drops.

As for the Shimano/SRAM thing: I don't think there is a huge issue with adding SRAM parts though compatibility will play a more important role as things wear out and get replaced. There is a completely different feel to the shifting mechanism though. I could see some people (myself included) not wanting their front and rear derailluers to have different shift feels. Some will argue that the SRAM shifters are shorter through the hood (they are) and thus better for small hands (which is probably where your shop is going). Make sure you ride them before you drop a lot of money on them; I HATE SRAM shifters (go figure). Yea, I can brake without shims, but they feel "fatter" in my hands AND I can no longer shift because of the "double tap" mechanism and there's not anything that can be done to fix that (no shims). Also, because the feel and length of the shifter body is different I would want both to be the same; that would mean changing basically your whole drivetrain!!!! I guess that's the long winded way of me saying "yea, you can do it, but I wouldn't".

I think you'll probably be fine though with your current set up and some minor tweaks to your braking style and maybe the equipment as well.

[Triskeliongirl]

The cheapest solution is to install brake shims. I bought a new bike that came equipped with Durace10-7800 levers. I had to double shim them but it took care of the problem.

These should fit your bike if it is shimano105-10spd: http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/...jsp?spid=41915
but order 2 sets and install both of them (if you are like me). Of course you'll need to adjust your brakes after installing, but they'll let the levers come in a lot closer.

I should add that whether you need 1 or 2 sets also depends on the shape of your handelbar, but at $10 a pop I'd order 2 just in case. Your LBS can also order them for you if you will need them to help you with the installation and brake adjustment, but its really easy.

Previously, I used shimano short reach levers, that is also an option for you but it will cost you ~$300.

[kenyonchris]

I had 105 on my last bicycle and the shifters were quite large. Although I could brake in the drops, it hadn't even occurred to me that I might be able to brake in the hoods since it was so inconceivable based on the size of the shifters versus my hands. Basically, I did not realize how unsafe it was until I switched over to Campy, whose shifters are much smaller and fit my hands very well!

I am 5'3.5" with short arms/small hands and your situation seems quite normal to me from my experience

Ditto on this...I am small with small hands, plus I have broken both hands and all my fingers at least once (my left hand has fared worse, the ring finger on that one has been broken three times). I have ridden Shimano 105, Tiagra, Ultegra, Dura Ace, and now am riding Campy Chorus. The Campy Chorus is by far the easiest for braking and shifting, particularly on the left side.

Also, I played a lot with my handlebars. I now have Specialized WS on there, it makes a huge difference. I also, being small, insisted on 38" bars, despite EVERY bike shop eyeballing me, telling me a 40" would work, until they actually measured me and they all said, "Why you ARE small, aren't you!"

[bluebug32]

I have small hands and have shims in my dura ace shifters. This helps, as does a shallower bar, but I am still planning to swap out to SRAM Rival when I find a good deal on them. The shifters are smaller, adjustable, and rebuildable, unlike Shimano.

[Crankin]

I also, was going to suggest bars with a shallower drop and narrower bars. I spent the $ for the Shimano short reach shifters. It was worth every penny of the $300.00.
After doing all three of these things, I can, for the first time, brake in the drops and feel comfortable that I can squeeze the brakes hard .I tried the shims for at least a year and they actually made the braking feel worse.