Move from triple to compact is killing me.

[lo123]

I recently got a new bike (Trek Madone 5.2 WSD). She's lovely, but KILLING me on hills. I have a bad hip due to damage from something similar to rheumatoid arthritis. My hill strategy in the past was to spin up the hills. I can't now, and it's hurting like heck AND I'm slower. Not cool! Before I got the Madone, I was able to avg 18+ on hilly rides, now I'm lucky to avg 16.

The old bike is a Specialized Tricross triple with FSA 53/39/30 crankset and Deore(?) 11-34 cassette (MTB cassette). I was spinning up large hills in 'super granny' as I call it

The Madone has an Ultegra compact crankset 50/34 and 12-27 cassette (recently switched to that from 11-25 which has helped a good bit, but not enough).

I've considered switching out the crankset for a Triple, but it only gets me to a gain ratio of 2.2 (vs. 2.5 on the current setup ) which seems pretty far from the 1.7 gain ratio I had with 'super granny' on the triple. Thoughts? Would the extra gear make that much of a difference? What costs would be associated with that other than the crankset?

Current strategy: Build up muscle strength around the hips (suggestions on that are welcome). Don't ride with my usual riding partners so I don't feel like a loser when they drop me on the hills. Ride the Tricross on hilly rides once 'cross season is over.

Any other suggestions? I'm feeling really beat down right now. I at least realize there's a reason I've been so much slower now, but it's still demoralizing.

[Biciclista]

bummer!

Why did you get a bike without a triple? I don't think you're going to be able to get stronger fast enough to enjoy hills on that new bike.

[Cataboo]

I could be wrong, but I have a vague memory of a thread about this somewhere where there is a 10 speed cassette that goes from 11-34 - I think i remember Debw & Luna cycles commenting on it, it was about a cyclocross bike and I think they were also talking about whether you could use 10 speed shifters for 9 speed cassettes in the back as well.

It does require all new shifters, but:
You actually might be better off going to a 9 speed and putting a 11-34 mountain biking cassette in the back instead of changing to a triple...

If you don't want to get new shifters...
If you get a smaller bcd compact crankset, you could get a compact crankset with 46 & 30 tooth chainrings or something like that... But I don't know that's going to help you anymore than the triple.
http://blogs.phred.org/blogs/alex_we.../01/22/95.aspx

[OakLeaf]

I'd give yourself some time to adjust before you write off the Madone. Lighter makes a huge difference, but it's not necessarily automatic, especially when the geometry is a lot different.

One of my riding buddies is going through a similar transition. All summer she rode with us roadies on a 40 lb hybrid. Even though she struggled at times, we all kept telling her she didn't know how strong she was. So when she got a road bike, she was very discouraged that her pace didn't immediately improve. But she's sped up quite a bit on the new bike and continues to get faster as she gets used to it.

If you can average 18+ on hilly rides on a cross bike you're SUPER strong. I'd say give it time, but also talk to your PT about issues specific to your hip.

[7rider]

I had no problems on hills going from a triple to a compact. But I don't think I had a 34 on the back!!
However, it did take me a while to learn the ins-and-outs of shifting for maximum benefit as I got to the hills. Since the gearing is different, your usual combinations won't work, and you have to re-learn where your own "sweet spot" is.
If you absolutely can't handle it or get accustomed to it on the lighter Madone, your best option is probably to focus on the cassette, rather than the crank. It's possible your rear derailleur cannot handle a 34 cassette. Rather then changing out the crank, it might be cheaper and bettter to change out the rear derailleur and put a bigger cassette on it.
Your LBS should be able to guide you.

[Ana]

My new bike has a 50/34 with 12-27 but my old bike had a compact triple with 12-25. The compact is definitely more difficult on hills but my new bike is much nicer and the fit is better so I tough it out

I'm sure your pre-existing hip problems don't help

I would go with what feels best. I have to say, 34 in back is really big...I think I'm almost at my max with 27 on my cassette. I was lucky in that my transition from triple to compact contained most of the same gear ratios

Mountain bike ratios and road bike ratios are way different. I commute around town on my trusty Trek (not sure about the exact gearing) and it has much much much easier gearing than my road bike. The downside is that it is heavier, clunkier, and the tires are fatter so even though I can gain speed, I never go as fast as I can on a road bike on comparable surfaces

I think you can get some bigger rear cassettes with SRAM, though I remember a thread I was reading where someone has a really nice big gear on their cassette and the details are explained

[lo123]

Thanks for all the input.. I really appreciate it. I needed an outside perspective. I know I haven't been doing this long, but I'm surrounded by a freak of nature (my husband who's been riding the same amount of time as me, 7 months or so, and averages over 20 mph!) and lots of racers and ex-racers. It's hard to readjust my expectations to what my body can do.

I think I'm going to give the 27 a little more time.. The weather is starting to change, and my joints are not too happy. This may not be the best time to decide how strong I am. I'm thinking I'll focus on building strength on the trainer in the off season and see where I am come spring. Let 'cross be my focus for the fall/winter.

bummer!
Why did you get a bike without a triple? I don't think you're going to be able to get stronger fast enough to enjoy hills on that new bike.

Took the advice of some other folks that a compact would be fine... that I'd only lose 1 gear at the top and bottom. I obviously didn't research enough on that one. my bad. If I didn't have the griding hip pain to contend with, I think this would be a non-issue.

For an entirely non-technical view of the situation there comes a point where you have to accept your physical limitations. I know all too well that this can be difficult.

I'm trying to avoid getting back into that mindset.. I'm 27 and have had the arthritis for 11 years now. I let the arthritis rule my life for too long. Up until 2 years ago I was pretty much sedentary and used a cane to get around about half of the time. Lots of heavy duty meds and lots of exercise later, I'm too hard headed at this point to let the new bike win I've worked too hard to come this far. Quite frankly, some days I'm still amazed at who I am today vs. 2 years ago.

May ask my rheumatologist for a referral to PT when I see him in a few weeks. Haven't done any PT for my hip even though it's been bothering me for several years. It's one of those things rheumatologists tend to forget about in treatment plans.

[Becky]

Took the advice of some other folks that a compact would be fine... that I'd only lose 1 gear at the top and bottom. I obviously didn't research enough on that one. my bad. If I didn't have the griding hip pain to contend with, I think this would be a non-issue.

If you were just switching from a triple to a compact, I'd agree with this. But you also lost your mega-range mtb cassette when you switched, so you lost even more low gearing.

I think I'd consider one of two things:
a) Switching to a road triple or even a touring triple. This would mean confirming that your left shifter is double/triple compatible, or replacing it with one that is triple-compatible. You may also need a new front derailleur, but it's hard to know without seeing the bike.

b) Switching to 9-speed in the rear (I'm assuming that your Madone is 10-speed), including a new derailleur, an MTB cassette, rear shifter, and maybe a chain. My only experience with 9/10 compatiability was on DH's commuter, and the 9-speed shifters didn't play well with the spacing on a 10-speed cassette.

Catriona's suggestion of a SRAM XX cassette has possibilities too. Just keep in mind that a SRAM rear derailleur is not compatiable with a Shimano shifter. Something about the shift ratios being different- I'm drawing a blank here.

*wanders off to check out the part specs on the Madone*

[Bike Chick]

16+ average on hills is impressive and so is the fact that you ride a bike with arthritis. I applaud you.

I moved from a triple to a 50/34 with 12-27 rear cassette several years ago. It was tough at first but I do fine with it. I ride with my husband and several other men---I'm the only woman---and I am always dropped on the hills and probably would be no matter what kind of gearing I have. As I got stronger, they did too. They just had to be "trained" to wait for me at the top before they took off again. I have just learned to live with it and continue searching for other women in my area that ride the same pace as me.

Don't let it demoralize you. The Madone is a beautiful ride but it doesn't sound like you are enjoying it much. That's too bad.

[Cataboo]

Catriona's suggestion of a SRAM XX cassette has possibilities too. Just keep in mind that a SRAM rear derailleur is not compatiable with a Shimano shifter. Something about the shift ratios being different- I'm drawing a blank here.

*wanders off to check out the part specs on the Madone*

I have no idea and I'm not sure if many people know since sram XX is so new... But I think you could possibly run a shimano mountain bike 9 speed rear derailleur, use the xx cassette (if the 10 speed spacing is the same between the xx and a shimano or sram 10 speed road cassette) and then use it on a shimano shifter.



9 speed shifters won't work with 10 speed cassette - but I'm pretty sure that you can run a 9 speed cassette on 10 speed shifters... You just end up having a ghost shift for the last one. Somewhere on here, debw and or lunacycles were discussing how to do it on a cyclocross bike... It may have been for someone's terry valkyrie that they were getting information on how to build up. So going to a 9 speed mountain bike cassette in the back, she'd probably only have to change the rear derailleur & cassette.

[Zen]

.. I'm 27 and have had the arthritis for 11 years now. I let the arthritis rule my life for too long. Up until 2 years ago I was pretty much sedentary and used a cane to get around about half of the time. Lots of heavy duty meds and lots of exercise later, I'm too hard headed at this point to let the new bike win I've worked too hard to come this far. Quite frankly, some days I'm still amazed at who I am today vs. 2 years ago.

27...
minus 11 years...
that give me an entirely different perspective of the situation. "I don't blame you for being hard headed" said the hard headed 51 year old.
it's remarkable what exercise can do for us yet so many people would rather just take a pill

[lo123]

27...
minus 11 years...
that give me an entirely different perspective of the situation. "I don't blame you for being hard headed" said the hard headed 51 year old.
it's remarkable what exercise can do for us yet so many people would rather just take a pill

I still need the pills and shots and IV infusions just to be able to walk. It's the exercise that let's me be 'normal' (well, as normal as a crazy gal like me can be, I suppose ).

But yeah, I have a different perspective on life than most. And I wanna be fast again dammit!

[Cataboo]

I still need the pills and shots and IV infusions just to be able to walk. It's the exercise that let's me be 'normal' (well, as normal as a crazy gal like me can be, I suppose ).

But yeah, I have a different perspective on life than most. And I wanna be fast again dammit!

Lo123,

you're faster than me!

[Cataboo]

Okay, it's irking me I can't find that thread.

But I did find that IRD makes a shimano compatible 10 speed 11-32 cassette:
http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2353

That must be the one I was thinking of from before - probably it needs a mountain bike rear derailleur.

You can definitely do the 10 speed shifter thing with 9 speed cassette with this jerkmate thing:
http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm

But it looks like just routing the cable differently will also do it:
http://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adj...html#alternate


Options:

- Going to a triple is going to cost triple cranks (& maybe bottom bracket) + probably new shifter + new front derailleur + new rear derailleur (she's probably going to need the long cage rear if she doesn't have it, and the double front derailleur isn't going to handle the triple cranks... I don't think ultegra sl shifters are double or triple compatible, but I haven't specifically pulled them up to look...)

- Going to a 9 speed mountain bike rear cassette - 11-34 or something
- cost of cassette (not too bad) + a mountain bike rear derailleur probably. Downside - her gears are going to be far apart, so it may be hard finding a comfortable gear. The advantage of this is that a 9 speed mountain bike cassette is probably cheaper than getting a 10 speed cassette.

- Going to a 10 speed mountain bike rear cassette (SRAM XX) or that IRD, probably again needs a mountain bike rear derailleur, but a 9 speed rear derailleur can handle 10 speed shifters (I've done 9,10 & 8, 9 mismatches) - this is probably more expensive than going to a 9 speed rear cassette - but the gears will be slightly tighter than the 9 speed and she might have a more comfortable time going through the gears.

- Going to a more compact front crankset - costs, new crankset & possibly bottom bracket... that'll do away with a lot of the high gears though for flats.

[Cataboo]

lo123,

I just remembered that sram is making a 10 speed mountain bike cassette:
http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?ID=87314

It's expensive, fairly new, I have absolutely no idea idea whether you could mix & match it with shimano - at the very least you probably need to replace the rear derailleur... It's an 11-36 cassette, so it should give you similar gearing.