Avail 3 vs Scattante R-330

[Owlie]

I was all set on buying an Avail 3. Then The Boyfriend, poking around on Performance, came across this.

So far, comparing the two:

Avail:
Pro: 1) Have ridden one and liked it.
2)WSD (possibly a plus) (boyfriend keeps saying it's not significant...)
3) It is rather prettier...
Con: more expensive ($750 is the lowest I've found)

R-330:
Pro: 1) Price
2) Better components (apparently. I don't know these things)
3) The boyfriend and his dad (both bike nuts) recommended this one
Con:
1) I have no actual idea what frame size I should be getting, and availability of certain frame sizes is limited
2)I'm not thrilled about the black.

Other than aesthetic reasons, I have misgivings about the R-330, and I don't know why, because I should be getting "more bike for the money."
Could someone qualitatively explain what the differences between (at least, Giant's versions) women's frame and the "men's", and what can't be solved by tweaking things and swapping out parts?
I'm pretty sure this has been asked before, but how does one go about (roughly) determining frame size?
Are there other things I'm not considering?

[uforgot]

I can't find a geometry chart on the Performance bike. I was going to look at how they compare. (The Giant geometry is on their website) It doesn't matter how great the components are, if it doesn't fit, you won't want to ride it. The one thing that you don't want to tweak if you don't have to is fit.

A few other things to consider: I assume you are getting the Giant from a dealer? Are they throwing in tuneups or anything like that? You may want to consider that in the overall cost. Personally, I wouldn't buy a bike I hadn't ridden, unless I was sure it would fit. It also appears that both bikes have Sora components, and although I haven't ridden them personally, there are a lot of people on here who don't like them. Perhaps they will chime in with a component comparison for you. We've also heard a few horror stories on here about Performance's customer service with the bikes. You may want to check that out.

If you don't like the bike, don't get it. Look around some more, ride some more bikes and find one you love. If you love the Giant and can swing it, go for it. I've settled for less when I thought it would be better to save a few bucks, and in the long run it's better to save, get what you want, and love your bike. YOU are the one that has to ride it.

[Owlie]

Exactly. I don't want to buy a bike that I can't try out until I've paid for it. That's silly. I'd be buying the Avail from the LBS, and as far as I know, they give a 10% discount for a year after buying the bike on things in the store, as well as a year of free tuneups. (At least, they were when my friend bought her bike from them.) As much as the boyfriend says "I can do that for you!", why make him do things if they'll do it for free?

[Running Mommy]

Being a Giant dealer I may be biased... BUT. Consider this...

Most small bike shops will offer a 30 day tune up, and a lot of them- like us for example- offer free adjustments for the life of the bike.
ALSO any good lbs is going to do a proper fit on you. Make sure the stem and bar sizes are correct, and if necessary change out at minimal to no charge.
AND set up your pedals and shoes if you are using a clipless system.

The experience I have had with our local performance shop is that they are nowhere near that personal. AND an employee told me that they really don't like working on bikes, so they charge astronomical fee's for service hoping you will go elsewhere. I've also yet to be in a performance store and see them doing a bike fit. They MAY do it at your store, but I've never seen it at the local performance.

So even if you don't go with a Giant, I would make sure that you are really getting your moneys worth. As my mom used to say "no sense being penny wise, and pound foolish".
Proper fit is essential with a road bike. Don't skimp on that!!

[Cataboo]

do you have a performance near you so you can se test out the scattante?

I had a scattante frame for a while, it had good components, and I just waited till I found a frame I liked better... and swapped all the pieces ontto that.

[Owlie]

So even if you don't go with a Giant, I would make sure that you are really getting your moneys worth. As my mom used to say "no sense being penny wise, and pound foolish".
Proper fit is essential with a road bike. Don't skimp on that!!

This. Just because of the nature of Performance stores--you go there to buy things that you can buy online if you don't want to pay for shipping--makes me think that fit and making sure it's right for the buyer is of secondary importance.

You know, I'm going to ask my boyfriend if he's ever bought a bike from them. I'm pretty sure he hasn't. (And Running Mommy, if Goodyear is where I think it is, odds are good that he'd be dealing with the same Performance store you are.) He's rather set on that bike, but I've got my doubts, and I think you hit the nail on the head. I'd much rather buy a bike from somewhere that will actually make sure it's right than somewhere that only might. I'm also asking "Okay, why is this thing so cheap?"

ETA: Catriona--Yes. I will consider and test both bikes. Since this is quite a bit of money and I probably won't be upgrading for a while (living on grad student funds...), I'll be making pretty sure that I like the bike.

[Running Mommy]

our local one is in Peoria AZ. Nice enough guys, But yeah it reminds me of the wal mart of bike shops. Or maybe target??

[Cataboo]

Other than aesthetic reasons, I have misgivings about the R-330, and I don't know why, because I should be getting "more bike for the money."
Could someone qualitatively explain what the differences between (at least, Giant's versions) women's frame and the "men's", and what can't be solved by tweaking things and swapping out parts?
I'm pretty sure this has been asked before, but how does one go about (roughly) determining frame size?
Are there other things I'm not considering?

One thing for you to consider is that Women's frames are built basically for women that have relatively long legs and relatively short torsos. If this is your body type, than you should be interested in a women's frame.... If it's not your body type, then you don't want a women's frame. I should basically never be riding a women's frame.

Women's frames will have shorter top tubes & shorter reaches because of this - men's frames will have longer top tubes. You can lengthen or shorten the reach on a bike by switching the stem for a different size. Handlebars come in different widths and reaches, that may also be something you would need to change to fit you.

I haven't looked up the giant avail, but Running Mommy is a dealer so she might be able to chime in with specifics. I don't know whether they use narrower or shallower reach handlebars for women.

A local bike shop may be willing to trade the stem, handlebars and such on the avail to fit you for free when selling you the bike - I have no idea whether or not performance does anything like that when selling a bike.

But in general, when you get the bike you're probably definitely going to eventually change the saddle for one that fits you.

As for what fits you with frame size - it really sort of depends on how you want to be riding (upright vs. more aero), and this is where hopefully your boyfriend's knowledgeable enough to help you - and the sales people at the local bike shop or at performance...

[Owlie]

At this point, more upright=better. I talked to the BF last night, and he did buy his current bike there (a Cannondale Somethingunbelievablyexpensive, when they still carried Cannondale), and he was quite happy with everything. I also managed to get into a conversation about bikes with my former chem prof (he had his bike in his office). He said he was quite happy with the customer service he got at the Performance store in town and with the bike he got. (Of course, he acknowledged that it might have been because the salesman was a student of his!) It sounds like customer service varies widely between stores.