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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    The most inhospitable place to ride in Tennessee
    Posts
    42

    Am I being a sissy?

    I planned on commuting to work from my home. I live on a narrow two-lane country road with zero shoulder, though. The speed limit is 45, but people (including me) go 55 easily. I've got about two or three miles of this in order to get to the closest four-lane street. I've done the round trip twice, and both times they were the most stressful and chaotic ten to twelve minutes I've experienced in a while.

    The drivers here just don't accept cyclists on the road, especially not on a road with a single right of way. They lay on the horn and/or pass within a foot of me and I pray they don't kill me. I'm pedaling my hardest just to get out of there, plus, my heart's in my throat from the jerk that just passed me. I see cyclists there all the time, but maybe they have something I don't. Until I see/grow/steal the balls they have, I've come up with the next best thing: driving out of that road of death and soiled shorts, parking, and biking the rest of the way. I did it once today, and I think it may work. There are small shopping centers on either side of a large intersection with a Walgreens, a Subway, a dry cleaners, etc. There's also a church a couple of blocks down. Have y'all ever heard of anyone getting ticketed for parking in such a place almost all day? Sure, no one knows if you're shopping or praying or what, but what if someone sees you pulling your bike out of the car and riding away?

    I thought that parking in a different place, switching between shopping centers would attract less attention, but if y'all don't think it's a big deal, I'll go with a "regular" spot. Am I weird for going to such lengths to avoid my scenic-but-only-in-a-car death trap of a road? Can you tell I really don't want to ride it again? I feel like a cheater for driving what was supposed to be a gas-free commute.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Honolulu, HI
    Posts
    510
    Doesn't sound like you're a sissy to me. Regardless, I'd rather be a sissy than hit by a car.

    I would ask the store manager(s) where you want to park about parking there and getting some sort of sign to put on your dashboard indicating you have permission to park there. Some towing companies would be oh so happy to take your car.

    For example, last year in Honolulu a number of folks got towed from a CompUSA parking lot. They had gotten there before the store opened and went to have breakfast and return when the store was open. One of the cars was full of a college student's luggage, and as you can image her mother was hysterical over the tow because the next stop after CompUSA was supposed to be the airport (made the papers and they did get a refund, but it really, really screwed up their day).

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Riding my Luna & Rivendell in the Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    8,411
    I suggest you ask the other cyclists who are riding that road how they handle the situation. Ask at least 6 of them, and you may get some valuable cycling technique tips. You may not realize something that you are not doing to make things safer for yourself.
    Also, invest in a couple of screaming neon yellow cycling tops and wear them. Drivers often slow down to tell me they could see my neon yellow a mile away and how great it was to see a biker clearly. It can make that little bit of difference, safety wise.
    Lisa
    My mountain dulcimer network...FOTMD.com...and my mountain dulcimer blog
    My personal blog:My blog
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Uncanny Valley
    Posts
    14,498
    Only you know your own comfort level, so no, you are not being a "sissy" (sexist term anyhow!).

    A few thoughts -

    * I agree with Bleeck about getting tips from the other riders you see. If you know their schedule, maybe you can waylay some of them at the intersection where you're thinking about parking. Also +1 on the hi-viz jersey/jacket - it's pretty much all I wear any more. (two days ago a kid hollered at me "Hi Lance!" )

    * No matter how visible you are, if the road conditions are such that drivers won't see you until they're less than 200 yards away (blind curves or hills), then the road is trouble. I live on a road like that, but it's lightly trafficked - so it makes me a little nervous to run on it, but I do, and cycling on it doesn't bother me. But, there are other roads in my area that are full of blind hills and curves, narrow, no shoulder and heavily trafficked, and those I just would not ride on. I know I have the same right to use those roads as the cars do, and I know there are people who will put their lives on the line in order to advocate for cyclists rights', but I just don't happen to be one of them. That's been a lot of why I've hesitated to commute to work. (I finally found a safe route after driving four or five different options - but it's got some KILLER hills in it - and the one day I was really planning to commute I ran out of time - so I still haven't made it )

    If I lived on one of those roads I'm thinking about in my area, no, I just wouldn't ride from home. It's barely safe for the people who live there to pull their cars out of their driveways. How many cars per minute go down your road during the time frame you'd be commuting? To me, the traffic level is a big factor. One or two cars per minute, especially on a short stint like you're talking about, wouldn't be so bad. If it's four or more - to where you'd probably be holding up a line of traffic - then probably not.

    * What happens if you go the opposite direction on the road you live on? Can you get to an intersection sooner?

    * Do other people park their cars in those shopping centers? Are they informal used car lots like a lot of them around here, and if so, does the management tolerate that? If you're going to use the church, yes, do ask. But if it's a shopping center, remember it's the real estate developer, not the lessee stores, who owns the property and has the ultimate say-so on who parks there, and they're probably some huge corporation in another city or state. So if there are any smaller establishments that you patronize in the shopping center (restaurant, pharmacy, natural food store, card shop, whatever), those would be the ones I'd ask for permission - someplace where the employees already know you and can vouch for you to the management, and I'd park in the outskirts of the area that their customers usually use.
    Last edited by OakLeaf; 06-29-2008 at 05:36 AM.
    Speed comes from what you put behind you. - Judi Ketteler

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Looking at all the love there that's sleeping
    Posts
    4,171
    I agree with these fine folks.
    Check with a store manager about the policy on all day parking in the lot. Some parking lots will have posted signs that say "Parking for conducting in-store business only" or something like that. Tell them you feel unsafe coming from where you are riding from and this feels like a safer alternative. Tell them, too, that it would make you more likely to frequent their store after work, since you'll be in their lot anyway! Also, offer to park out of the way - away from store fronts so you wouldn't be taking "prime" parking spots. Don't feel weird about doing it. It's called a "mixed commute" and folks do it all the time.
    And...check with your LBS about how other cyclists handle your scary section of road. If other folks do it "all the time" what they may have that you don't is a stronger sense of confidence on the road. Hey, they often say that the secret to crashing a party is to act like you belong. Wave to the horn honkers (all 5 digits, please!) and hold a steady line with your bike. Maybe when you've done your mixed commute often enough, you'll get a better feeling for riding with cars and also for when the peak travel times are on the roads. You can then plan to do the full commute during the lighter times.
    Best of luck. Happy pedalling!
    2007 Seven ID8 - Bontrager InForm
    2003 Klein Palomino - Terry Firefly (?)
    2010 Seven Cafe Racer - Bontrager InForm
    2008 Cervelo P2C - Adamo Prologue Saddle

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    8,548
    I have a 1 mile stretch of a similar road, except i have 3 lanes to chose from. Heavy industrial vehicles going 50+ mph scare the bejebers out of me, so I usually jump onto the sidewalk there - there's no law against that!

    However, parking and riding works too. You're still cutting miles off your gasoline consumption.
    Mimi Team TE BIANCHISTA
    for six tanks of gas you could have bought a bike.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Mrs. KnottedYet
    Posts
    9,152
    +1 what everyone says. Can you ride with other cyclists? You're more visible as a group. Even in bike-friendly parts of the city I work in I've noticed this happening. Riders are casually agreeing to ride with each others, single file and in a line but more visible this way.

    Is there a detour? Think side streets, parallel roads ... let the cars have that narrow road and find a way around it. This will be further to ride but may be safer still.
    Fancy Schmancy Custom Road bike ~ Mondonico Futura Legero
    Found on side of the road bike ~ Motobecane Mixte
    Gravel bike ~ Salsa Vaya
    Favorite bike ~ Soma Buena Vista mixte
    Folder ~ Brompton
    N+1 ~ My seat on the Rover recumbent tandem
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    S. Lake Tahoe CA and Marion Mass
    Posts
    359
    I would say go with your gut. There is a road I live nearby that I will not ride after 8 a.m. If I want to ride that loop, I get up at 4:45 a.m. and am on my bike by 5 a.m. I see people ride it but to me, recovering from a head injury isn't worth it. And you aren't being a sissy about it. I have gone over the handlebars many times in the dirt, but I'm not really so willing to do that on a road with cars behind me. I was pretty sketchy about riding on the road, but I have to say drivers in this part of Mass anyway are not that bad. There are some bad ones, but the roads I ride on are not that heavily traveled. Maybe you can use googlemaps and find another route? Talk to your LBS too, they might have some insight as to where you could park or a safer route.

    Everyone gets obstacles like these, don't give up. I sometimes drive and park at a shopping center. I park the furthest from the stores. There are no signs that say "customers only" or things I see at my other home in Tahoe. There I'm not sure I would try it because tourists tend to park at supermarkets and go skiing! Just don't take the space that is prime like someone else said. Maybe you know someone that lives on this route too and you could park at their house? I would say most of all, the church would be a good bet, but I would ask on that one.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Blessed to be all over the place!
    Posts
    3,433
    If you're feeling unsafe, that's not being sissy...but your instinct speaking.

    But here's a radical idea...that will pay for itself in just about 50 gallons of gas saved:

    Fund Your Own "Share The Road" campaign on your street

    Go to the City/Council and offer to personally buy two "Share the Road" signs (one both ways) and ask them to install them for you.

    First, the signs are not incredibly expensive.
    Second, I think people will be more respectful of your presence when they see a legal sign that announces your right to be there.

    By your description, I'm guessing you're in the hills of East Tennessee. We live in a non-cycling friendly area of Indiana...but the local government loved the idea of "Share The Road" signs that someone else paid for...as our State Law is written, they almost can't refuse for the price of installation. Excepts from Tennessee's Code:

    (a) Every person riding a bicycle upon a roadway is granted all
    of the rights
    and is subject to all of the duties applicable
    to the driver of a vehicle by this chapter ....


    (c) (1) This subsection (c) shall be known and may be cited as the
    "Jeff Roth and Brian Brown Bicycle Protection Act of 2007.”

    (2)The operator of a motor vehicle, when overtaking and
    passing a bicycle proceeding in the same direction on the
    roadway, shall leave a safe distance between the motor
    vehicle and the bicycle of not less than three feet (3')
    and shall maintain the clearance until safely past the
    overtaken bicycle.

    Let the law work for you! Good Luck!

    If you're interested, PM Silver or me and we'll get you the name of the company that we've bought signs from.
    Last edited by Mr. Bloom; 06-29-2008 at 02:30 PM.
    If you don't grow where you're planted, you'll never BLOOM - Will Rogers

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    3,151
    People thinl I'm extremely intrepid - I don't even have a car - but the fact is that if I rode a road and got enough hostility, I"d figure I was simply playing wiht the odds and I would stop. Martyrdom happens too often already in the cycling world - I don't need to go out of my way to add to the numbers, especially when an awful lot of people would say "and what was she doing riding that road anyway???"

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    865
    I identify with your situation. I went with my husband to plot out and time a path to my work, and we both almost got hit by a car at an intersection. The driver looked right at us and proceeded to pull out directly in front of us. I found a way to go that avoids that intersection, a small bit longer distance. But since then I have made every excuse for not doing it. Arrive at work sweaty, being teased by co-workers(they aren't the fit crowd-exact opposite), changing clothes, having to bike home tired, after work commitments, etc.
    I need to grow some courage giving body parts too!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2

    Narrow 2 lane roads

    You're not being a sissy, its self preservation. I don't think you should give in by driving, because that sends the message that bikes don't belong. Rather, you need to speak to your local law enforcement and area elected representatives about the safety of this road.

    Getting hit from behind is the most rare type of cycling accident. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but it happens only rarely. More what is likely is that drivers will not move over enough and give you enough room as they pass. I used to commute a narrow 2 lane section in NJ, also with no shoulders. WHat I found was the further right I was the closer the cars would pass, especially when there was oncoming traffic.

    Move out into the road 2-3 feet. This accomplishes several things: (1) You have someplace to go besides dirt if someone tries something (2) As the car comes up behind you it will move further left and if you move slightly right as it passes, you will have more road. (3) Cars won't try to pass if there is no room- when there is oncoming traffic.

    You could talk to your elected officials about adding a shoulder or bike lane or atleast a SHARE THE ROAD sign.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Newport, RI
    Posts
    3,821
    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic_cat4 View Post
    (3) Cars won't try to pass if there is no room- when there is oncoming traffic.
    Tell that to the guy who tried to pass me last week into oncoming traffic after I had taken the lane. It was on a curve, with solid yellow lines, obvious (to me, at least) that there could possibly be cars coming. I knew he was there, knew he was annoyed that I'd taken the lane, but assumed he'd not pass because it would be dangerous, and he'd be breaking the law. Well I was wrong. He could have killed me, the oncoming drivers, and himself. Of course, being on a bike, I was the most at risk. Luckily, he braked and got back behind me in time. When he finally did pass, he yelled at me, so obviously, it was all my fault .

    I will still ride on that road, but if it happens again, I may not at that time (5 pm). There are roads I just won't ride on at certain times, and I'm a pretty confident rider who isn't afraid of traffic. When there's no shoulder, cars speed, curves making for lots of blind spots, it just may not be a good bike road at rush hour. There are also roads I won't ride at times when I know the sun will be in drivers eyes. I'm cautious, but not overly so. I just take a lot into consideration when planing my routes.

    edit to add: you're not a sissy!
    Last edited by redrhodie; 06-29-2008 at 08:01 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    The most inhospitable place to ride in Tennessee
    Posts
    42
    I don't know if I'll ever bike out of here. This afternoon I saw a sheriff on the side of a wider road. I didn't know if he was clocking cars, or what, but I decided to seize the opportunity and ask him some things. I pulled over in front of the car so he could have me in plain view, you know, to try to set the scene for a friendly encounter. He seemed polite enough, but he was discouraging as far as cycling goes. I asked him if he'd seen many cyclists back in the area where I lived. He said yes, but he sighed and shook his head like he was about to have a conversation he's had many, many times. He asked me immediately why I wanted to ride back there. I told him about my desire to commute and he just kept shaking his head. He then asked me how fast I could pedal.

    They get frequent calls about riders getting clipped, often with no car information. They sometimes deal with car wrecks that happened because someone passed a biker when they should have waited for oncoming traffic to pass. And, get this, they also get calls from drivers complaining about cyclists in the road! He acted like the awareness lies solely with us, because they can't tame the drivers. He advised that I ride in a group if I could, avoid rush hour, and pedal my heart out.

    I think I may try that bit every few months to see if I've gotten enough speed to get me out of there faster. The hills tend to kill me right now and any momentum I had is basically zapped halfway up. I can plug through them, but too slowly.

    Mr. Silver, the roads are in Eads, TN, outside of Memphis. There are only two-lane roads in this area. Lots of different streets off of a main one, but they dead-end after a while. It's easier once I get into Germantown or Memphis itself to navigate away from trouble roads.

    I've actually seen share the road signs! In different places and on more than one road. The rolling hills here are great for cycling. It's not rare to see a single rider or a small group around here, but it's not exactly common yet, either. The sheriff said that he figures the signs have been knocked down too often and people are tired of putting them back up. He told me to call the council anyway to see if they'll do it. I don't know how much the public knows about the law, but I'm willing to bet that most of them don't care anyway. They want you out of the way, period. A few months ago I was out checking the mailbox and I heard a horn off in the distance. It was a prolonged horn blast, so I looked around to see what was going on. Pretty soon I realized the horn was getting closer and I saw a cyclist and a truck coming around the bend toward me. The driver was tailgating the guy and pounding the horn. I couldn't believe it. The biker didn't look happy at all, but he was pedaling like crazy and sticking to his piece of road. I was afraid for him. They passed me at a pretty good clip and rounded another turn with the driver still following, laying on that horn. I don't know the story behind that incident; maybe the cyclist did something, maybe not. From my experience I'm willing to bet that he decided to get up that morning and ride through the country.

    The responses here have been very helpful and supportive, I thank y'all. I will ask the stores and the church about parking.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    S. Lake Tahoe CA and Marion Mass
    Posts
    359
    What is the speed limit on these roads? Just curious.

    Where I ride it varies from 20 to 40 mph. But most people are aware. I have had some really scary moments where it appeared to me someone didn't see me or they were being a butthead and getting too close.

    When I was reading your post, the only thing I can say is they need an attitude change, and you should know being in the south, you get more bees with honey than you do with vinegar.

    So with that said, why not wear a sign on your back that says "Lower Demand on Gas=Lower Prices" or something like that. If you find some commonality with people, which everyone complains about gas, then you have a better chance of getting them to empathize with you and hey, they might even want to give riding to work. You just never know...But then you might get an argument on the whole gas thing (ha! just what you need right?). Don't give up tho. There is always a SAFE solution.

 

 

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