Looking for *natural* chamois cream/lubricant

[Ocelot]

Hello to all TE board members!

I'm a biker who is also a stickler for 100% natural body products. For example, all my cosmetics and body care products are either from Aubrey Organics or have absolutely no synthetic components. I'm also a no-animal-testing product user, going totally vegan where possible.

Now, I'm working my way up to longer rides after a badly sprained ankle, and I know I'll need some sort of chamois cream/lubricant for the 10+ mile rides. So I'm earnestly looking for something that'll meet my criteria, since Chamois Butt'R is a complete no-go--it contains three synthetic paraben compounds that are known to be toxic and cause skin rashes (methylparaben, ethylparaben, butylparaben--used as antimicrobials and to extend product shelf life).

I'm looking for more information, and the ingredient lists if possible, to the following list of potential alternatives:

-- Cafe Chamois Cream
-- ASSOS Chamois Cream (Swiss product)
-- Qoleum Chamois Cream (Belgian product)

I know that Qoleum uses only vegan cream bases in their products, but I'm hoping to get the actual list of ingredients, and any feedback from bikers using this product. Anyone using any of the other Qoleum products please chime in with your own experience regarding product use and performance.

Thanks in advance for any and all replies. I appreciate the feedback.

Debbie Kraft
"Ocelot"
cat@eskimo.com

[bikenewbie]

Debbie,
Unfortunately, I don't know anything yet about the products you mentioned. I am of a similar mindset regarding the products I use, so I was wondering if you have any experience with energy bars and/or drinks. I haven't seen many that are organic. I tried a Boulder Bar, which wasn't too bad and it had 42 gm of carbs too. Anyway, do you have any favorites you'd recommend?

Angela

[Ocelot]

Originally posted by bikenewbie
Debbie,
Unfortunately, I don't know anything yet about the products you mentioned. I am of a similar mindset regarding the products I use, so I was wondering if you have any experience with energy bars and/or drinks. I haven't seen many that are organic. I tried a Boulder Bar, which wasn't too bad and it had 42 gm of carbs too. Anyway, do you have any favorites you'd recommend?

Angela

For fluids, I stick with water. I've found that so many prefab "sports" drinks are mostly high fructose corn syrup or something similar. I also don't feel comfortable drinking amino acid supplements, which can have unexpected/undesireable results. Unlike vitamins, amino acids don't normally require supplementation in a well-balanced diet. And unlike the current trend, I don't ice my water: it's a bit of an Eastern point of view, but putting ice-cold water into hot body is extremely hard on what is known as the spleen meridian in acupuncture. Besideds, it's not temperature that water addresses, it's lack of moisture. Moisture can be replaced at any temperature, and it's easier on the body if it's the same as the ambient.

I don't use any of the "energy" bars on the market, because too many of them use soy protein isolate as their protein source. Soy protein has not been shown to provide more bioavailable protein than traditional protein sources (like nuts), and there are a number of issues with soy as a food product, including the effect of soy isoflavones on a woman's estrogen levels. As my estrogen levels are already too high (resulting in periods from hell), I minimize any soy I ingest.

To that degree, my take-with-me-bars of choice are the real food bars put out by Odwalla. I heartily recommend these bars. They aren't processed to the nth degree, they're made of real food components, and contain no preservatives. I've used them at work as well, when the pace is too fast to stop for a meal, and they never fail to give me something to run on. They do contain soy lethicin and in some flavors soy nuts, but except for one type of bar, none of them contain soy protein isolate, which is what I personally really stay away from. Here's the Odwalla site if you want to check out the ingredients in detail: www.odwalla.com/obar2/obar2.html I also recommend their juices, especially the Superfood--it's fantastic for a good dose of fruits and veggies when you just don't have the time to prepare and take the originals with you.

Anyway, that's my personal recommendations. You may or may not find such to work for you as every person is different and, as they say, your mileage may vary. But speaking as a person who has a "hot" metabolism that needs to be fed in small, regular increments, and a sensitive system overall, I believe that others could benefit. The key is to really think about what you're putting into your body. Basically, one could conceiveably live on the Odwalla bars because they're real food, not an "inbetween" sort of thing. Even in these "energy" bars that tout themselves "100% natural" I always seem to find objectionable synthetics, or unnecessary additives.

Hope the above gives you something to think about and to try.

Gotta go adjust my saddle, now. My rump is still slipping forward as I ride.

Happy Riding --

Debbie Kraft
"Ocelot"
cat@eskimo.com

[bikenewbie]

Thanks for all the great info Debbie! I have never understood the latest "soy" craze, I have no idea if it's legit or just hype. Also, I am constantly having the metabolism discussion with my husband. He is losing weight with lots of exercise and eating a fraction of what he used to, while I am the type to nibble all day or else I start feeling sick. He thinks it's mental. I think we just have diffferent metabolisms, but I have no proof other than practical experience. I am planning to educate myself on sports nutrition so I can at least have some empirical arguing ammo.
BTW, I read recently that a handful of raisins has about 40 gm of carbs and no fat. My favorite brand is Pavich organic. They're really big and never "over dried".

[Trek420]

ocelot,

I don't know about the ingrediants in ASSOS Chamois Cream , I was just looking for my
jar and can't find it. But I DO like the product. No petrulium base, lasts a long time so you do
not need to reaply on a long ride. It's pleasant and minty, can double as cake frosting.

just kidding about the last part ;-)

it's what I use

TREK420

[pennys]

what about bag balm... used both by dairy farmers and quilters alike. Get it at the feed store. It was made for animals, should qualify for your purity standards.

pennys

[Ocelot]

Thanks to all who have replied or contributed to this discussion so far. I appreciate your feedback.

From Penny:

what about bag balm... used both by dairy farmers and quilters alike. Get it at the feed store. It was made for animals, should qualify for your purity standards.

I'm not sure if you're being facetious or actually disparaging the fact that I am very careful with what I allow to come in contact with my body's largest organ--my skin. It's hard to tell when reading text sometimes.

Whatever your point of view, Penny, I'm going to take it at face value and answer it directly. Bag Balm, while likely very effective for helping cows with mastitis, has a petroleum jelly base and thus is not usable for a chamois cream. It also contains lanolin (an oil derived from sheep's wool), to which I have a contact sensitivity.

I'd encourage you to really think about what is in your skin care and cosmetic products. Companies regularly use low cost synthetics so that they can manufacture and sell products cheaply, resulting in a higher profit margin for them. Many, if not all, of these synthetic compounds are known for causing reactions from skin rashes to actual toxic responses over time. Take a look at this link here: http://www.aubrey-organics.com/about/treat_10synth.cfm My degree is in cell biology/biochemistry, so I can vouch for the information presented at this webpage. Again, I encourage you to read this information and really think about what is in the products you use, beyond a set of words you aren't familiar with or have difficulty pronouncing. Look up those components: see what they actually are.

From Trek420:

I don't know about the ingrediants in ASSOS Chamois Cream , I was just looking for my jar and can't find it. But I DO like the product. No petrulium base, lasts a long time so you do not need to reaply on a long ride.

Unfortunately, the Assos cream contains propylene glycol and methylparaben, which removes it from my list of possibles. But thank you for looking for me, Trek. I appreciate your effort to help my search.

Additionally, for anyone thinking of trying the Qoleum chamois cream, I bear the unfortunate news that it also has a petroleum jelly base. I can't speak to their warming Embrocation formulas, however.

I'd like to add that, in my search, I came across a post at the Bulltek Sports Message Board in which a poster stated that because all chamois pads are now synthetic, there really is no need to use cream. It has become a traditional thing to do, or to address a rider's own physical difficulties only. The poster goes on to state that a number of pro riders use Noxema! Here's the link for the entire post for those who are interested: http://members.boardhost.com/bullteksports/msg/584.html

To conclude this lengthy post, I've talked with my naturopath, and she suggested the simple act of rubbing a natural arnica gel on the areas that may get sore, before and after riding. Arnica is a flower that provides an extract used to greatly reduce swelling, muscle/joint pain, and bruising. I already use it regularly on my bruises (I bruise so easily), and it is fantastic to see a nasty black/blue/purple bruise go to yellow and then be practically gone in less than 48 hours. I think this is the most logical plan to run with for now. I have also read that with regular riding--as in short (3-5 mile) rides every day--the areas that would normally become sore develop a kind of tissue callous--not an actual callous like you'd get on your foot or hand, but more of a "memory effect"--that keeps that area from experiencing soreness during longer contact times with the saddle.

At any rate, that's where I stand on the matter. Thanks again for all your helpful replies. And apologies for the long summary post.

Good Riding, All --

Debbie Kraft
"Ocelot"
cat@eskimo.com

[pennys]

Originally posted by Ocelot
I'm not sure if you're being facetious or actually disparaging the fact that I am very careful with what I allow to come in contact with my body's largest organ--my skin. It's hard to tell when reading text sometimes.

Whatever your point of view, Penny, I'm going to take it at face value and answer it directly. Bag Balm, while likely very effective for helping cows with mastitis, has a petroleum jelly base and thus is not usable for a chamois cream. It also contains lanolin (an oil derived from sheep's wool), to which I have a contact sensitivity.

I've never read the label.... Just have it laying around and thought I'd suggest it as it works for me on splits and scabs. I"m sorry about your skins sensitivity... but that's not an issue for me. I was attemtping to be helpful, which around here ( this forum) seems to get slammed unless it meets someone's specific parmameters for what answer some one wants to hear

I'd encourage you to really think about what is in your skin care and cosmetic products. <snip>

Why not just leave it at the direct reply, "this product has stuff in it that I react to" instead of a (IMO) holier than thou, I am more of a purist and better educated than you probably are attitude.

I"d encourage you to just say, "no thanks" and leave the insinuations out of it.


pennys

[DoubleLori]

I agree with PennyS. Let us not disparage others for their choices. What works well for one person may be totally inappropriate for someone else. Each person has her own unique genetic makeup and metabolism. I am sorry that Ocelot has many chemical sensitivities. However, many people do not have such sensitivities and use synthetic products for their entire lives without any problem.

As for "natural" always being "better", please remember that cyanide, spider venom, snake venom and many other poisons are all "natural products". Many natural products that are legally sold due to grandfather clauses in the law, such as ephedra, can be seriously dangerous to your health.

Lori Crum, Pharm.D, BS Biochemistry.

[Ocelot]

Originally posted by pennys

I was attemtping to be helpful, which around here ( this forum) seems to get slammed unless it meets someone's specific parmameters for what answer some one wants to hear...

Why not just leave it at the direct reply, "this product has stuff in it that I react to" instead of a (IMO) holier than thou, I am more of a purist and better educated than you probably are attitude.

I"d encourage you to just say, "no thanks" and leave the insinuations out of it.

pennys

Pennys, I by no means intended any slight or "slam" by my response. As I stated, I was unsure by the way your text read if you were serious in your post, specifically the sentence, "It was made for animals, should qualify for your purity standards. " For me, this gave your post either a tongue-in-cheek flavor, or a disparagement of my personal circumstances--that's just the way it came across to me. And as I stated in my response, it's difficult at times to read a person's intent in text. This is also why I stated that I was taking your post at face value and responded (I believe) cordially to your suggestion.

Additionally, I wasn't insinuating anything by the next paragraph of my response. I simply want to encourage people to truly think about that fact that what they apply to their skin is absorbed systemically into the body. I myself really didn't think about this until my own system started reacting negatively to certain components. My intent was to share information, not insinuate that you are less informed or less of a "purist," or what have you. I regret that this paragraph did not come across in the fashion I intended.

Debbie Kraft
"Ocelot"
cat@eskimo.com

[Ocelot]

Originally posted by DoubleLori
I agree with PennyS. Let us not disparage others for their choices. What works well for one person may be totally inappropriate for someone else. Each person has her own unique genetic makeup and metabolism. I am sorry that Ocelot has many chemical sensitivities. However, many people do not have such sensitivities and use synthetic products for their entire lives without any problem.

As you can see my previous post, I explained that my intent was completely opposite of how the post was read. Again, I regret that it came across in the fashion it did. In addition, I do wish to clarify that my only sensitivity is to lanolin, to which a large majority of people do have some degree of an allergic reaction.

Lori, I will be the first to agree that everyone's metabolism is different, but when a known toxic chemical--I will use as an example methylparaben, which is benzoic acid combined with a methyl group--is applied to one's skin regularly over time, deliterious effects *are* going to occur. Another good pair of examples, imidazolidinyl urea and diazolidinyl urea, are well established as primary causes of contact dermatitis by the American Academy of Dermatology. Diazolidinyl urea releases formaldehyde at just over 10 degrees Celsius.

My point with the above information is that these are *known* toxic chemicals that are being added to skin, hair, and beauty products on a regular basis. This is what I'm encouraging people to question, to think about--like the television commerical where the fellow in the rat costume crawls up the subway stairs and holds up the sign that says there's cyanide in cigarette smoke, just like rat poison. I'm attempting to pass on information, not accuse, belittle, or put down anyone. My only exhortation is for people to think about it, just think about it. I'm not saying a person has to only use product X or his/her skin is going to peel off. I'm just saying here is the information, these are facts, now you, the listener, can do what you want with it.

Originally posted by DoubleLori
As for "natural" always being "better", please remember that cyanide, spider venom, snake venom and many other poisons are all "natural products". Many natural products that are legally sold due to grandfather clauses in the law, such as ephedra, can be seriously dangerous to your health.

It is unfortunate that the word "natural" has gained the connotation of "better." As you state, the word encompasses many compounds that certainly are not beneficial in their raw forms. However, venoms, to use your example, in *modified* forms or extracted proteins from such compounds, have been shown to have medicinal properties.

To address your specific example of ephedra, this is a compound that, when it came into "vogue," was never used properly. Indeed, it continues to be abused in bogus weight loss formulas. In the Chinese pharmacopia, ephedra is treated with great deference, and used only in miniscule quantities when needed. I believe this only illustrates the lack of oversight over what does and does not get put into products available to the public.

The bottom line is that the known toxic, synthetic compounds currently used in skin and hair products have alternatives that occur naturally in the environment, and are *not* toxic in their pure forms or in a mixture. These alternatives work just as good or better in a mixture, usually better, as they don't break down as easily as their synthetic counterparts. So why don't they get used instead? Money. Synthetics are cheaply made and obtained, and result in a higher profit margin for the manufacturer. Using a naturally occurring alternative would cost more, so most manufacturers simply don't use them, regardless of the *fact* that the synthetics are, as stated above, known to be toxic or to cause allergic reactions.

I apologize for turning this thread into a bit of a soap box, but like the fellow in the rat costume--who felt strongly enough about spreading his information that he dressed up in a rat costume and didn't care if people thought he was weird or had a screw loose--I feel strongly about getting this information out to as many people as possible. I firmly believe that if enough people really question what manufacturers put in skin and hair products, it can only lead to more enlightened consumers, better products, and less people with skin problems. As always, this is my own personal belief, and your mileage may vary, as they say.

Thank you to all those who contributed to this discussion.

Debbie Kraft
"Ocelot"
cat@eskimo.com

[DoubleLori]

A quote from Ocelot,

The bottom line is that the known toxic, synthetic compounds currently used in skin and hair products have alternatives that occur naturally in the environment, and are *not* toxic in their pure forms or in a mixture. These alternatives work just as good or better in a mixture, usually better, as they don't break down as easily as their synthetic counterparts.

I hate to break the news to you but some of the natural products touted on the Aubrey Organics website, such as pine oil and pine tar, ARE TOXIC. My dog nearly died after licking pine tar off her feet. Whether a product is "natural" or "synthetic" has very little to do with whether it is toxic or not and very little to do with whether someone will react to it or not. (Lanolin IS a natural product, by the way.) That was the point of my last post.

And here is a quote from the referenced Aubrey Organics web page which is false:

Petrolatum is mineral oil jelly, and mineral oil causes a lot of problems when used on the skin photosensitivity (i.e., promotes sun damage), and it tends to interfere with the body's own natural moisturizing mechanism, leading to dry skin and chapping. You are being sold a product that creates the very conditions it claims to alleviate.

This adverse claim would be true of glycerin (also known as glycerol or glycerine), present in many so-called moisturizers, which is hygroscopic and pulls moisture out of the skin but it is NOT true of petrolatum)! Aubrey Organics website actually touts glycerin saying it is a"Rich humectant, emollient and lubricant naturally extracted from vegetable oils, used in cosmetic formulations for thousands of years." Contrary to what they say, it does not matter whether glycerin is of vegetable origin or not. Glycerin is glycerin is glycerin is glycerin. It is inherently hydroscopic and WILL dry out your skin with continued use. Ever notice how a certain "intensive care lotion" actually makes your skin drier over time? Glycerin is the reason. Petrolatum, however, forms a hydrophobic barrier that keeps natural moisture IN the skin where it belongs. Yes petrolatum is synthetic and incredibly cheap. You can buy a lifetime supply for a few dollars. Where is the profit margin in that???

Caveat emptor! Don't believe everything you hear or see, especially not from a website that is touting its own "high profit-margin" products. Any such advertising or website will tend to selectively pick data and information that supports the use of their products and omit any information that would be unfavorable.

[pennys]

Originally posted by Ocelot
[B]

Pennys, I by no means intended any slight or "slam" by my response. Additionally, I wasn't insinuating anything by the next paragraph of my response. I simply want to encourage people to truly think about that fact that what they apply to their skin is absorbed systemically into the body.

OK, so why did you say:

Again, I encourage you to read this information and really think about what is in the products you use, beyond a set of words you aren't familiar with or have difficulty pronouncing. Look up those components: see what they actually are.
[/quote}

perhaps that didn't mean to sound *****y, but it did. I expect better of women. I can read labels, I've been to college too!
But you know what, don't imply that you know better than me what is good for me or not.


you also wrote: [quote}
I myself really didn't think about this until my own system started reacting negatively to certain components. My intent was to share information, not insinuate that you are less informed or less of a "purist," or what have you. I regret that this paragraph did not come across in the fashion I intended.

You should regret it. People here are just trying to be helpful. I for one don't' care about some one else's politics, whether they eat organic or not, use pure prouducts or not, who they vote for or anything else. All I ask from people here is that is you aren't getting the answers you want... be nice about it. And I know I am not being terribly nice right now, I'm annoyed.

now, lets just shut the hell up and ride.

penny s

[Joycily]

Ocelot,

How about straight Shea Butter? 100% cold-pressed wildcrafted karite butter with natural vitamin E? I have very sensitive skin and I find that this is really the only cream that doesn't cause a reaction. I get mine from Terressentials (http://www.terressentials.com) - they make and sell natural and organic personal care products. (if the opportunity comes up, please tell Diana at Terressentials that Joyce from Aptos says hello!)

Your arnica gel idea sounds intriguing - I will have to give it a try if/when an actual sore appears. For me, the shea butter has done wonders for mild chafing.

Good luck!

-j

[wawaski]

Hey, how about bag balm? Unsure of the ingrediants, but used it a lot as a moisturizer!
Sandy