Seven vs. Habanero

[dachshund]

Hello all,

I'm getting back into riding, and decided to get a new bike to celebrate. My current one turns out to be too small, according to a the bike fitters I went to, people who were recommended here.

I had an appointment already with Chris at Robinson Wheelworks. What a nice guy! He was very careful not to tell me outright that I need a new bike, which I appreciated. When I pressed him more, his assessment was that my Bianchi can't be modified further to fit me. And I'd just as soon get on with it, I can afford it, so I'm considering a custom bike. And now to start with my many questions.

I've read BikerZ's story about the Seven - thanks for all that information! They can also order a frame from Habanero. Does anyone know the difference between the two? I think this is what Chris said: that Seven frames are US-made while Habanero frames are made in China. Seven makes their own tubes, and the extra degree of customization available from Seven is built into the price of their frames in general. Is that it, or are there style differences that I just can't see? The Habanero site doesn't exactly inspire me, and I haven't found much about them online. Obviously Habanero is cheaper.

Regarding custom vs. stock, if we can plot out my frame geometry based on body measurements, couldn't we find one of the stock bikes based on that same geometry? Or do you get stuck in-between the steps between the different stock sizes?

I'll search around here for more about buying custom, which I see as a bit of a project.
More later. Thanks!

[jobob]

Hey, welcome back!

Chris is a good guy and knows his stuff, and is great to talk to. He won't lead you astray.

[dachshund]

Hey, welcome back!

Chris is a good guy and knows his stuff, and is great to talk to. He won't lead you astray.

Thank you, ma'am! Nice to see all the familiar names here again.

[Velobambina]

I love my Seven Alaris. Can't comment on the other brand, but I tend to avoid buying anything made in China so I'm biased!

[bikerz]

Welcome back!

I love my Seven! I considered the Habanero, primarily because of the lower price (people who have them really like them), but once I decided to go custom, I really only considered the Seven. I just love how they look.

Chris did an excellent job on the fit and my bike felt (and still feels) very comfortable. In fact the whole process went really well.

I'd recommend a lot of test-riding - Chris had a a pretty good selection of smaller-framed bikes there that I tested: Seven Ti, Seven steel, a carbon something (Calfee?), and the Habanero, and that was very helpful.

Have fun!

[Trek420]

Hey, another TE Chis build. Yes, he's a great guy!

Habenero is a good bike or he would not stock them yet I got the impression he carries them for the cyclists who just haaaaaaas to have Ti with fancy stuff hung on it but can't afford the Seven. It's an affordable option.

Before this turns into another debate about imports/made in USA etc ..... I'm not saying don't get the Habanero but do look at his Sevens, Torelli/Mondonico & Calfee bikes he carries.

Torelli now has full carbon or check any of their steel, steel/carbon bikes

http://www.torelli.com/torelli/selvino.html

I love the Mondonico Futura Legero he built me. I'm 5' nuthin' and it fits like a glove. Just as important: no toe overlap, standard wheels and diamond frame. On most frames my size I'd have 650 wheels, toe overlap and/or slanting top tube. Even Antonio said I'd have a slanting top tube but full size wheels. It's as if he made it a personal challenge to build one my size and none a' that.

I happened into Chris's shop the day Antonio Mondonico was there. I met him and his son who now builds Torelli & Mondonico bikes. They went back to Italy and built mine. It's surprisingly light, zippy, peppy, and looks like an Italian work of art because ... it is.

I had a chance to briefly test-ride Bikerz's Seven and I like mine better but there's no comparison. My bike is well....my bike so of course it rides best for me.

I have a feeling if I tried a Seven, my Seven, I'd love it.

This is shallow really but I like the Monconico decal/typeface better which is of course the most important thing about a bike.

[ilima]

I ride a Merlin that I absolutely love, so I am firmly in the pro-Ti camp. I, too, considered Habanero but got a good end of the year deal on the Merlin and went with it.

As far as the Habaneros being built in China, they are made in Taiwan where the vast majority of carbon frames are made (not boutique brands like Calfee, though). So, I wouldn't worry about the build quality all that much. They know what they're doing. That being said, I do like that my Merlin (and my steel LeMond) frame was made in the US of A.

I do notice the Hab's geometry seems a bit long in the top tube, at least in the smallest sizes. My 49cm Merlin has a 52cm top tube with a 9.8cm head tube. The Hab 50cm has a 53.5cm top tube and a 9.7cm TT, which means a longer reach. I'm currently using a 80mm stem, and I wouldn't want to go any shorter as I could end up with twitching steering. So, in some cases there is only so much you can do with the bike's fit. Yes, you can change your saddle position (set back vs. straight seat post and rail adjustments) and stem (length, angle), but there are limits as far as feel, comfort and ride stability/control.

In addition to the custom geometry with Seven, you can also choose to go with double-butted tubes, which lightens the frame and your wallet. While I generally don't believe your typically person really needs custom geometry, aesthetically I like the idea of getting the head tube just right so no spacers are needed.

One thing I've heard about Seven is that they have a very specific fit philosophy. Such a philosophy may not fit with your body type or riding style. In particular, I've read about folks ending up with a geometry that they felt stretched them out too much.

[dachshund]

Thanks for the information, ilima. I'm supposed to do test-riding tomorrow. Should be interesting!

[Trek420]

One thing I've heard about Seven is that they have a very specific fit philosophy. Such a philosophy may not fit with your body type or riding style. In particular, I've read about folks ending up with a geometry that they felt stretched them out too much.

I've seen recent builds at Chris's I did not recognize as Sevens. One had bars so upright I did not know WTF kind of bike it was. But one look at that rear triangle and yep, it's a Seven. Chris explained both were for riders with specific fit issues, one a gent with a bad back.

So you can get a "classic Seven fit", but they build Chris and other shops just what the rider needs.

[dachshund]

I did a test ride finally. I rode a Habanero and a Seven. They had slightly different geometry, with the Seven happened to have the better feel. I didn't ask too many questions beforehand so I wouldn't try to out-think myself.

Can I tell the difference between Seven and Habanero? Heck no! These bikes are so light, good lord! And the fit of both of them was so much better than my Bianchi, it's night & day between my bike and these two. So it will be interesting to see what happens next. I believe he will dial in a Habanero closer to the Seven, and have me ride them both again.

So I'm hooked, I'm getting excited about eventually having one of these. The darn Seven website has a cool "color gallery", which has attracted my attention. Now I'm starting to understand the style differences between the two brands. I'm thinking maybe an orange-yellow fade design. Yeah, that's the ticket.

[Trek420]

dachshund, Does Chris have the polka-dot Seven out on the floor?

These two friends were parked next to each other in ALC parking. I'd never seen a flat bar roadie Seven, yet here it is

[dachshund]

dachshund, Does Chris have the polka-dot Seven out on the floor?

These two friends were parked next to each other in ALC parking. I'd never seen a flat bar roadie Seven, yet here it is

Oh, yes, I spotted the polka-dot Orange Seven right away. (puns intended)
I didn't notice the flat-bar one, though. There's a lot to look at in that store!

Given a choice, I'll probably pass on the polka dots. The flame design is nice looking, but for me that might be a bit much. I mean, I like to go fast, but don't hold me to it.

Now I'm wondering how to really distinguish between two bikes that are so different than what I'm used to. Maybe he'll do another silent test, make them different in some way that will be obvious after a while. I'm not familiar with the road that goes out to the lake, so I rode around the neighborhood and then up & down the frontage road. It's not much of a ride, but too many new experiences just make me nervous and then I can't think.