Breast stroke???

[anakiwa]

Here's a question for all you expert swimmers out there- how much less efficient is the breast stroke than freestyle?

This will be my 4th season doing tris. I've always been weak in the swim. I love running and biking and those activities seem to consume most of my training time. I've come to a point where I've realized that short of quitting my job, dumping my boyfriend, or giving up sleep (and none of these are things I'm willing to consider at the moment) - I'm never going to put the time into training for the swim that I would need to be faster.

I do occasionally go to a local masters' swim. The workouts occasionally include intervals of non-freestyle strokes. For some unexplainable reason I'm considerably faster at the breast stroke (relative to other people) than in freestyle.

So what percent slower are most people when they go from freestyle to breast stroke? I had always thought of doing the breast stroke in a tri as giving up- but if I'm faster at it does it make sense to change back and forth? I'm also thinking it would prevent me from getting off-course (when I get tired I don't always swim straight).

[alpinerabbit]

heehee...

womens 200 freestyle WR 1:55.52

womens 200 breaststroke WR 2:20.54

But as long as you are beating mediocre freestylers - who cares.

http://www.fetcheveryone.com/article-view.php?id=27
One pirate at Ironman Germany swam breast stroke all the way - and found he had 800 people behind him.

[Torrilin]

For an average strength swimmer, breast stroke is the fastest stroke because it's all about power. That's why it's one of the primary strokes used for in-water rescue work. It's also easy to improve speed with minor form improvements. Freestyle is only faster if you're in training for it and can maintain good form at speed. But... if you're doing a lot of triathlon races, I wouldn't plan on the other swimmers being all average strength and with poor form for freestyle.

Keep in mind that swimming is brutally hard exercise. If you focus your training time on the easy stuff like biking and running, the swimming will always suffer. If you choose to shift the balance of your training time so swimming is getting a more balanced amount of training, you should see an improvement in your performance in all three elements.

FWIW, the easiest way I've found to stay motivated for lap swimming is to do a variety of strokes in rotation. Freestyle, sidestroke (both overhand and underhand), breast stroke, back crawl, elementary back, underwater, butterfly... Each one works different muscles and has a different natural speed.

[Grog]

For a triathlon, I think a concern with breaststroke is the risk of kicking someone else in the face. It could make the "spin cycle" a bit more dangerous...

[Tri Girl]

For a triathlon, I think a concern with breaststroke is the risk of kicking someone else in the face. It could make the "spin cycle" a bit more dangerous...

That's what I was thinking. The power generated from breaststroke kick is far more powerful than a freestyle flutter. Someone in our club had said that he thought he'd heard that breaststroking in triathlon is not allowed for that reason. Don't know if that's true or not (how could they really tell- I dunno?). If nobody's around, then I guess you're okie dokie! Just be careful not to kick someone in the process.

As for speed, I know a friend that can breaststroke as fast as she freestyles (she has one killer kick and pull).

[Jolt]

As a longtime swimmer, I can definitely say that breaststroke is generally slower than freestyle. However, it may be easier to do for a longer period of time if swimming isn't your strong point, and the breath control is easier if that's a problem for you. Like a couple of previous posters, I'd be concerned about kicking somebody in the head if you're doing breaststroke in a tri--it's not fun to be on the receiving end of that (I've experienced it in crowded swim team practices once or twice). I'd say the best thing would be to practice your swimming so you get better at freestyle. Otherwise, maybe try to position yourself at the edge of the group during the start to make it less likely that you'll kick somebody.

[Skierchickie]

I agree with Jolt on this one. There is a reason why everyone does the front crawl in freestyle events - it is just faster (you can do any of the main 4 strokes in a freestyle event). Some people are more suited to other strokes (I was a backstroker through jr high & high school), but typically they will still be faster with the f.c. Also, some people will be faster at one of the other strokes, but probably only if they primarily work on that stroke. Maybe you could time yourself at a given distance, once with one stroke and once with the other, and see just what the difference is for you, rather than comparing yourself to other people. If tris are your focus, and you don't have the time to put into extra swimming (I sure know I don't!), then maybe focussing on freestyle (crawl) would help.

How do people find the time, anyway? I find myself swimming once a week, and then mostly biking, or mostly running, or getting sidetracked by my mountain bike, or my job, ...

[anakiwa]

Thanks for everyone's advice.

My problem is not really getting through the swim workout- it's getting to the pool in the first place.

I wasn't really planning on doing the breaststroke for the entire race- more like alternating- I'd need to freestyle at the mass start- but I was thinking in the middle when it gets lonely and I can't see the next buoy well- maybe it would be time to switch things up. (And keep in mind, most of you would not be in any danger- I tend to finish the swim well behind almost everyone- the only advantage is that I get to spend the rest of the race passing people.)

So I did an experiment at the pool tonight and the end of the workout- all times are for 25 yard distance.

Breaststroke: 29-30 seconds
I did this 4 times, felt very consistent- was 30 seconds on the first 3 then tried to go just a little faster on the last one and hit 29 seconds.

Fast crawl: 27-31 seconds
Going all out twice. I did the first one at 27- but it was totally not sustainable, I got a massive foot cramp, and the following time could only manage 31 seconds.

Moderate crawl: 33-35 seconds
This was a pace I felt I could sustain for a longer period.

So what's wrong with me that my breaststroke is so much better than my crawl? Are there any implications of doing the breastroke for a more sustained distance? I suppose I need to repeat the experiment in open water over a longer distance.

[Zen]

Even though your time for crawl is faster than breaststroke in your experiment, you might not be able to sustain it at race time. Your breast stroke time is very close to your crawl.
I think your plan is on the money.
There's nothing wrong with you that's not wrong with me, I prefer breaststroke too.

[Grog]

I've swam breaststroke all my life, just taught myself crawl about two years ago. My crawl and breaststroke times are now similar, but I feel a lot more "in control" breaststroking.

If you're like me, maybe think technique might be the big difference. Maybe working with a private coach for a session or two would help you improve your crawl technique, and make you faster...

[Kimmyt]

I'm wondering if since the breastroke kick requires more power from the legs, this could adversely effect your legs on the bike and run later in the race?

I don't know, a friend of mine just did an Oly swim all breast-stroke and she didn't do too horribly in the event. Me, if I did breast-stroke I would probably end up going backwards. I am most definitely a fc-er.

K.

[Torrilin]

So what's wrong with me that my breaststroke is so much better than my crawl? Are there any implications of doing the breastroke for a more sustained distance? I suppose I need to repeat the experiment in open water over a longer distance.

Nothing's wrong with you. Like I said, for the average swimmer, breaststroke is their strongest stroke. It's pretty much the top choice for "ok, I need to haul in a 300 lb man who was drowning" even if you're a 120 lb female lifeguard. Lots of power, and easy to sustain with one hand behind your back.

It sounds like you aren't putting in the lap time to develop fast twitch muscle fibers for crawl. Crawl is a lot like cycling in terms of needing to sustain a fast repetitive motion for long durations. So you'd need to do the same kinds of training. Work on cadence. Do intervals (not just speed ones, vary your strokes since each one uses different muscles). Make sure your form is *right*. Go slowly to build strength. That training will also buff your breast stroke, but breast stroke will get less net speed out of it than crawl will.

Honestly, if doing speed comparisons between the two strokes will get you in the water so that you stay there, keep doing them! If working on form in private lessons will help, do that. Weight work might also help, either as a motivator to get into the pool, or as a way to build muscle.

[Wahine]

I would like to bring up what Kimmyt said about affecting the legs. Breast stroke stresses the inner knee and thigh. Fatiguing this area will predipose you to problems on the run, potentially.

Your slower front crawl times are likely related to body position in the water. I would guess that you're legs are hanging down in the water and creating drag and that you may be swimming "flat" (with very little roll side to side). Working with a coach even one or two times can make a huge difference and you may notice an increase in your speed very quickly.

So I am not in favor of swimming the whole event with breast stroke, but switching it up would be OK.

[Jolt]

Nothing's wrong with you. Like I said, for the average swimmer, breaststroke is their strongest stroke. It's pretty much the top choice for "ok, I need to haul in a 300 lb man who was drowning" even if you're a 120 lb female lifeguard. Lots of power, and easy to sustain with one hand behind your back.

Yeah, freestyle isn't so good for hauling somebody in--that flutter kick just doesn't cut it, and when you're bringing somebody in your legs are doing most of the work seeing as your arms are sort of busy holding onto said person! Actually, I think elementary backstroke is probably the closest to what one does when bringing in a victim, at least if using a rescue tube like the Red Cross teaches.

The point about the breaststroke kick possibly tiring out your legs is a good one--in freestyle your arms are doing most of the work and the kick is mainly to keep your legs at the surface (at least that's basically all that my freestyle kick does--you should see how slow I am when using a kickboard and doing flutter kick). I wouldn't do breaststroke the whole time--switching it up sounds like a better plan considering that the other two events use your legs and not your arms (so tired arms wouldn't be a big issue).