SportTracks and Elevation Correction

[SadieKate]

Just thought I'd share a plugin I loaded today that works most excellently with non-barometric devices like a Forerunner 305 which I know many of you have.

We've already discussed ad nauseum that motionbased doesn't do a very good job with total climbing stats with or without a barometric altimeter, and even with their new correction function. Here's a recent thread: http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showt...ht=motionbased For cycling, I now use an Edge 305 and have very consistent numbers with a Polar and Ciclo computers so I feel I'm getting stats somewhere in the ballpark as long as I use the right software for processing.

However, I use a GPS-only Forerunner for foot-based sports like running and skiing so I loaded the elevation correction plugin on SportTracks and applied it against both barometric measured bike rides and GPS-only measured trail runs on the same trails. Wow. The plugin states that numbers from a barometric device are usually better than the plugin results and it showed, driving my numbers haywire, maybe 25% in one case. However, when applied against Forerunner data it made them pretty durn consistent with barometric measurements. And it corrects the max grade numbers. I finally have total climb numbers from my Forerunner that have something to do with reality.

For instance, w/o correction --- 519 ft / 39.2% grade
w/correction --- 346 ft / 17.5% grade

It even corrected the grade on one run from 153% to 16.1%.

Then, because of all the talk about motionbased and sheer curiosity I wanted to run stats on a file where I didn't have any preconceived notions of terrain, in other words, someone else's MB file from across the continent. Therefore, I took Mr. Silver's Shawnee Forest motionbased file and loaded it various ways:

Stats at MB (can't tell what corrections he applied): 4,389 ft gain / 4,617 ft loss
GTC: 3,732 ft gain / 3,962 ft loss
SportTracks w/o correction but w/data smoothing: 3,742 ft gain / 3,969 ft loss
SportTracks w/ correction and datasmoothing: 3,869 ft gain / 4,065 ft loss

I suspect his terrain is vastly different that what I ride in California and Oregon so I think it is interesting that based on the one ride, the behavior of the different software yields the same inconsistencies that I was seeing from my rides.

Anyway, just another 2 cents about the power of SportTracks.

And for those of you who are curious there is a CSV importer and it's pretty easy to edit/load your bikejournal logs to SportTracks.

[OakLeaf]

where'd you find the plugin? (I just closed Parallels and I'm not going to start it again just to look at SportTracks... )

[SadieKate]

http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/SportTracks/Plugins/

You'll need the GDAL plugin also.

I just counted the plugins I use -- 16.

[SadieKate]

If you import your bikejournal log from a CSV file, validate that the correct date is being used. My was 24 hours off but Wolfgang the developer, did a little work today and sent me an update version -- all the way from Germany.

[jobob]

Wolfgang the Developer?

Pardes has Yves (the Arkel guy), SK has Wolfgang.

I need to find me ... Guiseppe the Framebuilder.

[yellow]

I loaded this plugin a while ago. Using DTMs is standard for most high-powered mapping applications according to my local expert (I think you know him, SK).

That sed, I am finding that the Forerunner data when compared with data from my running buddy's GPSmap 60CSx seems to be woefully deficient (that's my spin...it's really just different). I would expect the 60CSx to have a better receiver. If that is the case and the 60 CSx is more accurate, then I have been running and riding longer distances than I thought! Wow! You can't wear it on your wrist, though.

But then I ask myself...do I, yellow, really care? Not really; it doesn't matter to me if the numbers are accurate. At this point, I'm happy to be out and moving and am not very focused on highly accurate data. Yeah, it's cool and interesting stuff, but it just doesn't interest me much. At least not right now.

/HIJACK

JoBob...I'm hoping to find Rico, who will bring me drinks with swizzle sticks and tell me that wrinkles are sexy. Rico doesn't need to provide me with any support other than that. If I need a frame, I'll just borrow Guiseppe.

/END HIJACK

[SadieKate]

A 60csx has a barometric altimeter. It is what I used for the Telluride to Moab trip (borrowed from Emerald).

I'm just looking for some way to get numbers that are consistent with all my other devices.

Whatever you want to use. Just thought I'd share for those who may want the same.

[yellow]

OK, OK, I knew you'd read that the wrong way! No offense meant. Sorry.

It's great that we have all these bells and whistles...I guess I've just gotten too overwhelmed by it all and find myself retreating back to simplicity. I'm too ADD and my brainpower isn't strong enough to keep up with it all. I'll keep my mouth shut. I promise.

(M swears that the 60 CSx is both barometric and satellite for elev tracking. I guess she should read her manual!)

[SadieKate]

I could be wrong, but I believe Garmin relies on the barometric altimeter for elevation tracking and gps for location, just like the Edge 305. The antenna is more sensitive and the software more sophisticated for faster satellite action.

http://www.gpsgenie.com/GPS-Garmin-GPSMAP-60CSx.htm

As far as accuracy of distance, she may have the 60csx set to record more frequently than you have your Forerunner -- in addition to the more sensitive antenna.

[mudmucker]

For cycling, I now use an Edge 305 and have very consistent numbers with a Polar and Ciclo computers so I feel I'm getting stats somewhere in the ballpark as long as I use the right software for processing.

Then, because of all the talk about motionbased and sheer curiosity I wanted to run stats on a file where I didn't have any preconceived notions of terrain, in other words, someone else's MB file from across the continent. Therefore, I took Mr. Silver's Shawnee Forest motionbased file and loaded it various ways:

Stats at MB (can't tell what corrections he applied): 4,389 ft gain / 4,617 ft loss
GTC: 3,732 ft gain / 3,962 ft loss
SportTracks w/o correction but w/data smoothing: 3,742 ft gain / 3,969 ft loss
SportTracks w/ correction and datasmoothing: 3,869 ft gain / 4,065 ft loss

Wait, so you are saying with Edge 305 for cycling, use SportTracks without correction but with data smoothing ? That's what I'm getting from the other thread.

What do you set the data smoothing at? I don't think that was ever resolved. Or is it terrain/region specific; meaning through trial and error you might adjust the smoothing if you are on a flat vs. hilly ride.

I just got an Edge 305 and tuned into Sport Tracks and it's beauty over MB immediately. But I haven't had a chance to do repeat rides, nor do I have another device to compare it with. So your comparisons are valuable.

Also, I am understanding the correction in ST you speak of refers to the plugin you just tried for non-barametric devices only - and that there is no need, nor is there internally in ST an option to choose elevation correction if you are using a barometric device.

[SadieKate]

Wait, so you are saying with Edge 305 for cycling, use SportTracks without correction but with data smoothing ?

You got it.

What do you set the data smoothing at? I don't think that was ever resolved. Or is it terrain/region specific; meaning through trial and error you might adjust the smoothing if you are on a flat vs. hilly ride.

This is what I do and you should not need to adjust per ride. I found the recommendations which I scammed from another thread to be pretty appropriate. http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showt...data+smoothing

Also, I am understanding the correction in ST you speak of refers to the plugin you just tried for non-barametric devices only - and that there is no need, nor is there internally in ST an option to choose elevation correction if you are using a barometric device.

Yes, you really only need to use data smoothing for a barometric device. Use the elevation correction plugin for a GPS-only device. If you have both, you have the option to tell ST to correct upon import but not to correct for a specific device. I opted for both and entered Garmin - Edge 305 in the box. Just tried it on today's ride and it worked beautifully. So later this week, I'll test to see if an import from my Forerunner is automatically corrected as it should be.

Hope this helps.

[SadieKate]

I just got an Edge 305 and tuned into Sport Tracks and it's beauty over MB immediately.

Isn't it amazing? I love the business model which lets so many developers provide enhancements through plugins.

[SadieKate]

Bumping for Ms Salsabike who just pm'd me that she's lost in a porta-pottie.

Salsa, once you find yourself, use the elevation correction plugin on SportTracks.

As far as getting lost in the bathroom, I can't help. Hopefully, this only happens in the clean ones.

[salsabike]

Bumping for Ms Salsabike who just pm'd me that she's lost in a porta-pottie.

Salsa, once you find yourself, use the elevation correction plugin on SportTracks.

As far as getting lost in the bathroom, I can't help. Hopefully, this only happens in the clean ones.

I'm not LOST. I just want to know how high the SEAT is.

Thank you, Ms. SK. I'm sure my poor Forerunner will be much less distraught on our next pee-stop tour ride.

[SadieKate]

I'm not LOST. I just want to know how high the SEAT is.

OMG. I'm glad I'd put down the knitting needles.