Dogs--yet again

[tiva]

What do you all do about dogs who run out barking as you ride by? I ride in farm country, and I much prefer the tiny township roads, which are incredibly lovely, have zero traffic, and have fun hills. But they also have farm dogs who aren't leashed or fenced (unlike the larger state and county roads, where there's so much traffic that farmers all tie their dogs).

I used to try and race by chasing dogs, but since I ride the same roads over and over again, I realized I was only training these dogs to keep chasing me.

So now, as soon as a dog comes running out on the road barking, I hop off my bike, put it between me and them, pull out my water bottle in case I need to spray the dog, and walk away, never looking the dog in the eye but still walking with a tall, calming demeanor. I'm no longer a yummy predator, in other words, just a boring person. This seems to work: they never bite when I do this and they never follow me past their property line. If the dog does come too close, I sternly tell them to get a life. (We have 2 wonderful, loving pit bulls on our FENCED farm, so I have developed an authoritative manner with dogs. They usually do what I say). But this method sure does slow down a ride.

I worry about the long, steep hills, all of which seem to have a farm right at the bottom. If I'm going as fast as I'd like to go, and a dog rushes out right at the bottom of the hill--the collision wouldn't be pretty.

So what do most of you do when a dog roars out at you? Speed up and outride them? Or stop and put your bike between you and them? Or spray them? I keep meaning to bring my kayaking air horn with me, which gives a tremendous honking sound, and could wake the dead. I have no idea how a dog would react, however. At least it might get the attention of the dogs' owners.

[tealtreak]

I am looking forward to reading the replies on this- have exactly the same problem but it is exacerbated by fear ....... (so my yelling is not authoritative but squeaky!) So far I have just relied on ridiculous, knee shredding sprinting............but like you say....a collision is immanent!

[fetchspot]

I will not be of much help. On my rides it is never just one dog chasing me. It is at least two, so I am reluctant to get off my bike. Yelling commands for me helps (Go on!!) but I will be hoarse by the end of my ride. I hate to stay clipped in as I might need to stop, but the time I twisted to unclip, the dog had my whole ankle in its mouth. Ouch. I guess it was an agressive move? I usually have little time to unclip before they are upon me.

fs

[goldfinch]

If it is a route you do regularly then the best thing to do may be to make friends with the dogs like Muirenn suggests. I did that on my route back home. I brought extra tasty treats (chopped up hot dogs) on a few rides. I'd toss the treats to the dogs, who loved them and were distracted. The dogs will be less likely to chase you out of their territory but instead will look forward to your appearance. The pair of dogs I did this with now wait on the side of the road wagging their tails. Sometimes they get treats, most of the time they do not. This is intermittent reinforcement. Once you establish a behavior a treat only once in a while will work to reinforce the behavior.

This works best on dogs that are not aggressive or too highly aroused. It may take more work if the dogs get too cranked up when you see them. You might have to stop and give them the treats as Muirenn suggests. I really do recommend making the treats extra special. Not dry old dog biscuits but something fresh and meaty.

[Crankin]

This would probably cause me stop riding!
Seriously, while I do have issues with the locals in my town who never walk their dogs on leash, it hasn't seemed to be much of an issue when riding, except in my own neighborhood. I've had one nasty encounter with my next door neighbor's dog, as did my DH. I attribute this to owner stupidity. If I had to prepare so much for a ride, in fear of a dog attack, the fear would stop me. I am not an animal lover and it is very hard for me to understand why people put up with poorly behaving pets. I mean, I don't like it when a dog even comes near me under any circumstance, let alone riding. During the one incident I had, I stopped the bike, on a hill no less, put it between myself and the dog and yelled like hell, "go home." I was ready to squirt my water bottle when it left.

[OakLeaf]

Well, the last time I had a scare with a dog at high speed, I got a lecture from sister members on the moto forum. So I'll pay it forward.

It's tempting to outride your brakes and your attention. It's very tempting, it's thrilling, and I succumb too. But don't. It's not necessarily a dog at the bottom of that steep fast hill - it could be a deer, a dweeb on an ATV, a pool of oil that someone dropped earlier that day. Part of it is what I call "seeing with your whole eyes," making sure you're aware of everything in your peripheral vision that might become a problem, any slight movement, any hedge or truck or building that might hide something that could dart out in front of you. Part of it is being able to recognize the limits of the combination of your attention, your braking and handling skills, and your potential escape routes. And part of it is slowing down when you know you're at or approaching those limits.



As far as commands to the dog, I don't have a very authoritative voice either, but it helps me focus my voice if the content of what I say doesn't convey any fear or anger to myself. When I yell at a stray dog, it's usually "Get a job!"

[marni]

I avoid eye contact, although I don't ignore peripheral vision, continue riding at what ever speed I am riding, and use my mama bear voice to shout no! and go home. I am so slow dismounting that the dog would have me on the ground before I could put the bike between me and him.

good so far.

marni

[Laguna]

A good blast of water from your bottle will deter most dogs...but not all. It helps if you have a few seconds to prepare in advance and of course you have to be comfortable doing it without weaving all over the road. Out sprinting the dog works sometimes as most dogs give up once you are beyond "their" property line.

Most bike shops carry a spray just for this purpose but again, you have to be comfortable doing this while on the bike and your aim has to be pretty good.

I had a very vicious dog run across the road to chase me several times and it almost caused an accident with an oncoming car. I went back and got the street address and called the police and county animal control. That did it..the dog disappeared and I didn't ask any questions.

[grey]

I live in a very rural area, lots of loose dogs.

Most dogs are not bad dogs, and provided they are trying to run alongside, I let them be. Some are even fun, we had a lab mix we called "Rocky" who would run with us for a good mile before going back home. He never barked or threatened - just wanted to run where we were "running" - big grin splitting his face the whole time.

There are others, though, that are not so okay - getting in front of the bike or trying to nip heels or tire. I've had a few nasty dogs come at me and I really hate it - those I call animal control about, most times once someone from there shows up, either the dog proves itself nasty or the owner confines it.

I've never gotten off the bike. I yell NO! in varying degrees of intensity depending on the dog. I have dogs of my own, I get foster dogs all the time, so I get a bead on them pretty quick as far as what their intent is. Most times, the "NO!" is enough - most dogs know what that word means and it at least slows them if not stops them.

I also have my water bottle in hand to squirt them - it's a good deterrent also.

I unclip on whichever side the dog is on, in case I need to kick (and have). I've heard of people falling from the bike while trying to kick before - I've been a martial artist for years and years and the only kick I try on a dog is all heel. I "chamber" so my leg on the side of the incoming dog is up high, think knee-to-chest. The kick itself is straight down - sort of like you are stamping down, with your toes pulled up. It's a last resort - after numerous, nasty-sounding NO-hollers have been to no effect, the bottle is ignored, and I'm about to be unseated by a dog. I aim for the head - not the snout.

I tried the sprays but decided against them. First, it's hard to get a good hit. Second, I fear it might make them really hate cyclists and want to chase us more, with greater intent.

On a funnier note - last year my little group was resting at the top of a hill and a group of five dogs from the last farm were still barking at us from the bottom of the hill. Not chasing, just barking to hear themselves. We were discussing our route, I didn't even realize how much the barking was bugging me until I turned around to look at the dogs and yelled "Knock it off!" - just the way I bark at mine.

Would you believe they did? All five of them turned around and walked back home. I've been called the Dog Whisperer ever since.

I sure would have felt like an idiot if they had kept barking though...

[beccaB]

One thing I would NOT do is give a dog treats when he comes out into the road. That would most likely teach him that it is appropriate behavior. There are animal protection laws everywhere in the US and it is no longer ok to have unsupervised dogs running around. Maybe some communities don't have the resources to deal with it, and being a dog lover myself I'd have a hard time turning somebody in to animal control. Ours here is extremely overzealous. What I might do if the opportunity arises is to talk to the owner from the perspective of a dog lover who has witnessed a dog getting run over by a car as he was coming out to meet me in the road. I've also gone up to the front door of a dog owner whose dog came out into the road and bit my husband, leaving a bruise. He was unaware of his dog being out there chasing us. I think it's just a matter of helping people see the light, especially since I am familiar with being investigated by animal control myself, and I had to work very hard to get out of trouble there, but that's another story.

[goldfinch]

One thing I would NOT do is give a dog treats when he comes out into the road. That would most likely teach him that it is appropriate behavior. .

I strongly disagree. I have done this and the dogs I was "training" quit chasing. Instead they wait expectantly. I was taught to do this by an animal behaviorist.

Sometimes it is far easier to train a dog than an owner. Where I am from people rarely confine their dogs and in the rural area I am not aware of any law that requires them to be confined.

[beccaB]

I strongly disagree. I have done this and the dogs I was "training" quit chasing. Instead they wait expectantly. I was taught to do this by an animal behaviorist.

Sometimes it is far easier to train a dog than an owner. Where I am from people rarely confine their dogs and in the rural area I am not aware of any law that requires them to be confined.

It does seem like there should be some freedoms from city rules in the rural areas, and I do observe people being more free with their dogs on their property in those areas. I don't necessarily agree with imposing strict animal control laws in the rural areas, but according to the way the law is written in surrounding areas here, there is no delineation. I have become somewhat of a student of this subject because my dog and I got into a situation that I had to spend a large amount of time in a courthouse to get the outcome that was fair to the situation. I participate in an online dog forum and this subject has come up numerous times. Many of the professional dog trainers discouraged people from using treats to keep loose dogs at bay. I have had some lengthy debates with our dog obedience trainer about how the expectations in communities have evolved. As a dog owner and a cyclist, I know I am being responsible with MY dog, but I would also have a hard time being on the receiving end of a dog attack and having to make a case of it with animal control.

[tiva]

Really interesting discussion--thanks for all the replies. I expect I'll continue to hop off the bike, because the neighboring dogs are all curious, not vicious. I do clicker training with my pit bulls, so who knows--maybe I'll bring hot dogs and a clicker along on my next ride and start training the one dog in particular who is bothering me. Or maybe I'll knock on the door and tell the owner how dangerous for the dog it is when the dog runs into the road.

[tulip]

The ones I worry about are the ones that don't bark. They're the ones who want to get close enough to bite and might get tangled up in the bike.

The barkers usually respond when I yell SIT! or NO! The non-barkers are not as common. I have successfully fended a few off with a well-aimed squirt from a water bottle; however, I have been cycling for decades and am very comfortable with my bike handling skills. Another person might not be comfortable doing that.

I've wondered if an air horn would work.

[Catrin]

The ones I worry about are the ones that don't bark. They're the ones who want to get close enough to bite and might get tangled up in the bike.

The barkers usually respond when I yell SIT! or NO! The non-barkers are not as common. I have successfully fended a few off with a well-aimed squirt from a water bottle; however, I have been cycling for decades and am very comfortable with my bike handling skills. Another person might not be comfortable doing that.

I've wondered if an air horn would work.

Yep, the one who took a bite out of my calf last April was a non-barker. Those air horns are huge, I've looked at them. I will go that route if I start having problems with dogs once I start bike-commuting to work.