Achy knees after fitting....(long!)

[KathiCville]

I did a bit of poking around to find TE threads about knee pain/aches; found some helpful ideas, but thought I'd post this just in case I missed something.

Background: I've been riding for a year. Never a problem with my knees up to this point. I've worked my way up to being able to do 25 miles pretty comfortably. Not speedy, but can make the distance, including some long hills thrown in for good measure.

Biggest problem with the bike had been the handlebar set-up for my much-too-weak upper body----a straight bar on which I was leaning/hanging for dear life. I'm now starting to lift light weights and do core-building exercises, but it will take a little time till those changes kick in.

Last Sunday, IFJane very kindly hauled me to a terrific LBS in our area where I spent about three hours being fitted. Wonderful experience! Biggest change by far was switching out the flat bar for a riser bar and bar ends. (Yeah, dorky, I know, but what a difference in comfort!!! Heaven!) The idea is that eventually, as I gain strength, I'll be able to transition to a lower bar again.

Anyway, Les, the fitter, was happy with my cleat and pedal set-up (done earlier by another shop). So, the only other change he made to the bike was to move my saddle forward a scant 1/8" and tilt the nose up a tiny bit because I told him that I felt like I was sliding forward too much.

I took the bike out Tuesday and Wednesday evenings for 15 mile rides. I don't usually do longish (for me) rides back to back but I'm getting ready for a bike tour next month AND the new handlebar set-up is sooooo much better than the old one that I felt great.

Well, by bedtime Wednesday evening, my knees were hollering at me to a degree I haven't felt since I gave up (not very serious) running 20 years ago. Achy all around the kneecap and even down into my shin a bit. Enough to make sleep difficult the last two nights.

To say the least, I'm annoyed that no sooner do I get terrific relief for my upper body problems, than my lower body decides to give me trouble, LOL!

Talked to the LBS today, who are naturally concerned about the knee pain. Gave me a few suggestions for the short term, like icing the knee, trying to take it easy for the next week or so, spin at a higher rate (I usually hover at 75-85; she suggests more in the 90+ range), and trying to watch my form carefully on the next couple of outings. She doesn't think that the 1/8" movement forward of the saddle is enough to explain the sudden, out-of-the-blue achiness. But also has no problem if I want to move the saddle back to where it was to see if it makes a difference. (And is happy to have me come back in, if the problem doesn't calm down in the next week.)

Anyway, we're a little stumped and I'm disheartened. I'll be doing a bike tour next month that entails about 150 to 200 miles of riding in five days. Before this knee thing kicked in, I had no worries about being able to do the distances (30 to 50 miles a day). Now I'm worried, LOL! Tonight I tried to take it easy on a 10-mile ride, spinning faster, not worrying about my pace, and by the time I got back to my truck I was still aching like crazy, grrrrrr....[I'm sitting here right now with ice packs on both knees....]

Thoughts? Is it worth moving the saddle back to its original position? (Something I've never done but assume isn't tooooo difficult for a newbie.) Or am I better off leaving it as Les set it up and trying something else?? I hate to fool with his carefully-orchestrated rearrangement of things if I'm apt to make the situation worse.

I normally would do a 25 mile ride on either Saturday or Sunday this weekend, but I'm thinking it might not be such a good idea??

Thanks!!

[IFjane]

Kathi - I hope by now you have read my email. I am clueless as I have had no experience with knee issues. The ones I had disappeared after my fitting - with Les. I only hope it resolves itself soon.

{{{{HUGS}}}}

[VeloVT]

I DO get knee pain if my saddle's too far forward. It's a very specific, localized pain though. I've gotten to the point that if I feel that specific pain, I know I need to push my saddle back a little. It feels like a tendon or ligament, and it's directly above my kneecap. Moving my saddle back during a ride can make it disappear suddenly, even if it's been bothering me for miles.

But the pain I get from saddle position is quite different than what you're describing... it really feels like there's one tendon I'm straining, it's not generalized like your pain. So I have no idea if your pain is related to the saddle changes, but it *is* possible.

Anything else different you've been doing? (Lifting weights, playing tennis, etc.)...

[motochick]

I had this problem and moved my cleats as far back as they would go in my shoe. This moved my feet forward of the pedals, toward the front of the bike.
I also run my cleats as far to the outside as I can get them.
Maybe it will work for you.

Brenda

[KSH]

Move the seat back. Just try it. I bet that's the one thing that has probably impacted your knees the most. Just a guess.

As your knees get back to normal, focus on high cadence, 90+. And trust me, once you get use to high cadence you will never look back.

Good luck I hope you heal up!

[KnottedYet]

Yup, another vote for moving the seat back.

A plumb line dangling from your knee should hang 0-3 cm behind the pedal spindle when your pedal is at the 3:00 (or most forward) position.

A tiny bit of movement forward of the seat can be enough to cross *your* knees' happy line. (everyone is different, which is why the plumb line measurement gives you a good bit of wiggle room) My knees like being closer to the 3cm end of the range, someone else's might prefer to be closer to the 0 cm end.

[KathiCville]

Thanks for the input! I think I'll go ahead and move the seat back to its original position today and then do another gentle 10-miler to see if that makes the difference. Les intentionally marked the old saddle position for me so I'd be able to move it back, if necessary. I'm hesitant to fool with the cleats or pedals at all because he thought those were set up 'just right.'

After icing my knees last night AND taking an over-the-counter pain reliever, I definitely feel better today. I'm sure some of the achiness is a result of having pushed my knees/legs more than usual on those two rides simply because I was feeling so much more comfortable with the new riser bar. Ha, ha, I need to remember that I'm 50, not 25!

By the way, I nabbed the only copy of Andy Pruitt's Medical Guide for Cyclists at the local bookstore last night---great reading!

[Starfish]

I just went through something like this. Had a bike that worked pretty well for me, but bought new shoes, pedals, and had a total fitting at the same time. LOVED several things about the newer fit (more aero, delighted that my back was happy with the lower position, etc.).

BUT, knee pain that I have never had on the bike before. Messed with everything from cleat width, angle, shimming, etc. Saddle fore/aft, etc.

Finally, I am back to the old shoes/pedals/fit...and knee pain is slowly going away. We just never did figure out exactly what part it was...as everything like plumb lines and so forth seemed to be "OK."

I still would like to make some adjustments and see about the new shoes, and a more aggressive bike...but, it is more important to me to just be able to get out and ride! So...back to the old position/fit.

Sorry...kinda long winded...just wanting to affirm that even small seat changes can make a big difference in knee comfort, and it might make sense to just put the bike back to where it was comfortable.

[KathiCville]

Thanks, Starfish!....After I posted my question, I remembered seeing some recent posts by you about knee problems. And was wondering if you're feeling better. Glad to hear that you're on the mend---or at least are finding your way back to comfort on the bike. I've already moved my seat back to the old spot, but I'm going to give my knees another day or two before I go out for a spin. That will give them a chance to recuperate before I test whether putting the seat back makes the key difference. Killin' me, however, not to be out on a pretty country road on my bike, 'cause it's GORGEOUS today, LOL! Ah well, my garden needs as much TLC as I can give it this weekend.......

[ehirsch83]

Hey Kathi-
Off Topic here, but where along the blue ridge are you? My wonderful BF is from up that way and we might be venturing up that way at some point to visit(he is from the northern neck area). I have no idea if that is anywhere near you and IfJane, but I know he always talks about how he used to ride the Blue Ridge Parkway....

[ehirsch83]

Hey Kathi-
Off Topic here, but where along the blue ridge are you? My wonderful BF is from up that way and we might be venturing up that way at some point to visit(he is from the northern neck area). I have no idea if that is anywhere near you and IfJane, but I know he always talks about how he used to ride the Blue Ridge Parkway....

On the knee pain, a little tiny adjustment can create a huge amount of pain. I would have it checked out. Also remember that everyone's insides are different, so what might not cause pain for one person could cause pain for you. You might want to have them move the seat back to where it was, but tilt it up.

[KathiCville]

Hi Emily.....I'm based in Charlottesville, about 20 miles from where Skyline Drive and the Blue Ridge Parkway meet (Afton, off I-64). BRP heads south at that point; Skyline Drive heads north. Jane is about 40 miles north of me, in Madison County, so she's close to where Route 33 crosses the mountains and Skyline Drive.......I'm still a pretty slow/new rider, but Jane and her gang are speed demons, LOL!

[IFjane]

Hi Emily.....but Jane and her gang are speed demons, LOL!

WHO???? *lol*

Emily - no we aren't!

I am originally from the Northern Neck, and I know another TE'er who spends weekends there. The nothern part of the NN is about 1.5 hours from here (Madison); and a little more from Kathi. In fact, Charlottesville is exactly 100 miles from my mom's house (she still lives in the NN in the house where I grew up).

Please keep us posted on your travel plans - there are several of us up here and we'd love to hook up with another TE'er!

[KathiCville]

Someone commented recently in a post that TE'ers often hear about people's bike-related problems, but rarely about the outcome. So I thought I'd report back that my knee ache resolved itself very nicely and very quickly.

All it took was moving my seat back a bit, taking it easy for a few days, and following the excellent advice of the LBS that did the fitting: icing the knee, wearing long tights until the weather warms up, and not trying to up my speed and mileage simultaneously, LOL! Good lesson learned! I need to remember that my almost 50-year old body isn't quite as resilient as it was at 25! (Doh!) For good measure, I've added a knee strengthening exercise to the core strengthening stuff that IFJane and others have recommended. I'm already noticing a big difference in how much better I'm sitting on the bike, thanks to the fitting and the exercises. Amazing, what a bunch of mechanical tweaks of bike and body can do!.......So, a verrrrry happy ending! Thanks, Jane!

[Starfish]

Hey KathiCV, what a wonderfull outcome! Very nice of you to post, too. Thanks!