Starting to work on hills seriously - need beginner advice!

[Bklynmom]

I have been training seriously (for the first time ever) for about 2 months and yesterday attempted my first serious hills, and had a very tough time.
(For NYC riders, they were the hills on 9W comming back from Piermont. It's about a one mile climb.)

I made it about half way up and just ran out of gas. I have been doing hill repeats in Prospect Park Brooklyn, but the hill is only about 1/4 of a mile. Interestingly I made it up 1/4 of a mile before getting off to push on 9W.

I know I need a longer local hill to practice on, but Brooklyn is pretty flat. I would love to find a way to work on hills before I go back to 9W again.

Any and all training suggestions would be appreciated!

I also wondering about gearing strategies for hills, I'm sure that would help me.

[spokewench]

I have some questions for you. When you are doing hill intervals on your slower hill, are you trying to push as long as you can for periods of time. It is hard for me to give you advice without knowing how long your short hill is?

How long does it take you to climb your short hill? If it is say 10 minutes, do this or a variation. Go easy, i.e. in a smaller gear breathing as easily and you can and relax for 1 minute. Then, click up a gear or two, and go as hard as you think you can without blowing and getting off your bike for 1 minute; keep repeating this till you get to the top of the hill.

You can vary this type of workout, i.e. go for 2 minutes, easy for 2; go for 3 easy for 3; or once you start to recover faster, 2 minutes hard, 1 minute easy; etc. Also, as it seems to get easier, you can click up to a harder gear to change the work out. Just make sure you don't bog down too much; you want to spin a certain amount to be efficient. Try for 55-60 rpms as a newbie on hills, unless it is so steep you just can't do it!

After you do these workouts as described above, your body will be able to sustain your output to the top. What you will have done is train your body to go harder for periods of time;then when you try that long hill for the second time, you just go as if you were on one of the easy parts of your interval training. Your body has been trained to go faster and harder, so you should be able to sustain your lower effort to the top. This is the first step, then you work on longer, faster, etc., etc. Remember, longer, sustained climbing is also in the head. It takes determination and willpower that when you start hurting (we all do), you just keep slogging away at it!

Good Luck!

[Bklynmom]

Thanks for your advice! This is exactly the kind of thing I need to be doing

My short hill only takes about 4 munites to climb at 9 MPH - maybe it's 1/4 mile. I have been trying to do it in a harder gear, as it has become pretty easy to spin up in a low gear. I will try to do one munite hard, one munite light.

I also wonder how many times I should do the intervals per week.

Now, there is a mile long rolling hills section right after - would it make sense doing 1 min intervals on that part too?

There is a longer hill in Central park, about 40 munite bike ride away maybe 1/2 a mile - might be worth making the trip.

Now about the psycological part - you are absolutely right. I was the slowest person on the ride, and the group had alread disappeared over the hill by the time I got to it - which was pretty discouraging. I am actually going back to Piermont on Sunday with a much slower group and a very encouraging friend with lots of bike experience. I also am going to take the train to the start point this time instead of the fast 8 mile ride I did to the start point yesterday.

I am taking today off, and plan to do my hill prep Friday and Saturday.

[Kano]

So, I don't know if this is worth anything or not -- I'm pretty new at this hill thing, and doing whatever works at this point! I have a climb that's about a mile long that I'm working on this spring, with the simple goal of making it to the top without stopping. I chose this hill because it's similar to another hill that I have been struggling with, but can't go on that one just whenever because there are gravel quarries on that road, and well, big trucks that I don't care to have close encounters with!

I'm pretty sure there are psychological things going on here as well as the real, physical issues of climbing a hill. I tend to sit at the bottom and look up thinking holy shicks, that's huge! and after the first time I couldn't do it, having this knowledge that I can't climb a hill in the back of my head. And "I hate hills." So, a big part of my goal to get up the hill in one shot is to cure myself of the self talk that goes on inside when I see a hill on the horizon.

So, I've been struggling up that hill, huffing and puffing, and pedaling in as big a gear as I can start with, and working my way down to the weeniest of granny gears, and having to stop once, twice, three times -- heck, on my comfort-beast bike, I stop six or seven times! New road bike, only once last time!

BUT, we went up the quarry road the other day, and I made it the whole way. I think I learned something that day that I want to get out and try again: It was a bad morning, and my quads were screaming at me the whole ride up til the hill. So, a little before it, I stopped and stretched them a bit (saddle makes a good foot rest for a quad stretch, that was a nifty new bit of info for my internal file cabinet!) Screaming quads were insisting on granny gears for even the invisible hills, which meant that's where I was when I started this quarry road hill that I've never gone up without at least three stops before. AND IT MADE ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD! Keeping the pedaling incredibly easy kept me from getting all out of control with my breathing, and kept my heart rate manageable, and I was able to just keep going and going, and at the respectable pace of 5.5 - 6.5 mph, rather than the barely managing to stay upright pace of about 3.5 mph last season! It took a while to get there, but the party I had in my head when I got to the top was worth it!

So, that's my tip: just put my bike in the granniest gear I've got at the bottom of the hill, and don't look up!

Aside from that, I've pedaled with the harder gears and set my sights on "one curve farther than last time" or "five more barrier posts than last time," but I like this keeping on going all the way to the top, since when I pause to catch my heart and breath, I tend to not give myself long enough to really recover, and then it's like it just gets worse and worse!

I figure maybe someday I'll do these hills in my not quite granniest gear, and work up from there! I'm to the point now where I know it's not going to be pretty, and I know it may take me a while, and I'll be at the back of the pack, but I WILL get to the top, and I WILL learn to not hate 'em. Maybe even to like hills!

Oh -- another thing that seems to help me on hills: if I've been riding a few miles to get myself warmed up first, but not too hard, you know, it's better than if I were to start at the hill "fresh." Kind of funny -- having gone five or six miles is better than only one or two. I guess you could say my lungs have opened for business by then!

(got a 16 mile climb to the local ski area, I think it's 2500-3000 ft. gain, and I've been thinking about tackling it this summer too. I might need to take camping gear! It's a long, 144-hairpins ride down, I think I'll want someone to come up to the top with the car too! Am I NUTS?????)

Karen in Boise

[Zen]

Dear Karen In Boise,

Yes.

Jeannine in Wolfsville

[Starfish]

(got a 16 mile climb to the local ski area, I think it's 2500-3000 ft. gain, and I've been thinking about tackling it this summer too. I might need to take camping gear! It's a long, 144-hairpins ride down, I think I'll want someone to come up to the top with the car too! Am I NUTS?????) Karen in Boise

No. Yesterday I did the road to our ski area...5100 feet in less than 19 miles. Hair pins, sheer drop offs, no guard rails. I did decide to come down, too, because I need to train my body for descending. But, with heavy traffic (all looking at the views and the wildlife, not the road), the sand left over from snow and ice, and the current cold temps, I took it VERY easy. There are people who only train the uphill, and come down in a car. Depending on the time of year and conditions, not a bad idea.

(That's not to say you're not nuts, though! LOL)

[Dr. Liz]

Little bit different question, but along the beginner hill climbing theme (could also be a sprinting theme, so please redirect me if I am in the wrong spot). I am now in my second season of cycling (this time last year I was falling over at stop lights), and my husband has teamed up with another pretty serious cyclist, and we have started racing (crits and TTs for me). All of which is great.

But. I can't stand up on my pedals - so I'm slow on the hills, and I'm slow on sprints. The boys are patient with me, but I can definitely see that I need to learn to do this. Any advice? Thanks!!!

[HappyAnika]

When riding rollers, its best to stay in a high gear and carry as much speed into the bottom of the hill as you can. Start gearing down as you slow down while going up to keep from mashing. When you get to the top, change back into the big ring and repeat.

On long hills, keep it easy from the start, you want to conserve energy to make sure you make it to the top.

Dr. Liz, the first time I tried standing to climb, I almost fell over. I felt like I had no control over the bike. To get better, I would practice short bursts of standing on flats just to get used to the feel of the bike moving from side to side. Once I felt comfortable with this, I tried it on hills again, remembering to switch to a harder gear just before standing. Just keep practicing. Its like learning to reach for your water bottle, you have to create new neural pathways in your brain, and once they are there the motion becomes second nature.

All that said, I'm no climbing expert. I can do the long gradual canyon/hill rides which for me is all mental, but we have some seriously steep hills around here which I am working on conquering. I did my first high elevation ride last weekend with 2400 ft. of climbing over 25 miles with a max elevation of 9140 ft. (1540 ft. on the way "up", and 860 ft. on the way "down", lots of ups and downs). I had to stop a lot, but I didn't beat myself up over it, my goals were just to finish and have fun, and I did that. 5100 ft. in 19 miles, ouch!

[Bklynmom]

This brings up an important question - do you stand or sit on hills? So far I sit on the long climbs.

The other day on rolling hills, I noticed that if I was using momentum and just needed to go another 20 feet up, it was easier to stand and kind of drag the bike up the last few feet. Can't keep this up long! The first time I stood on my new bike I nearly crashed because of the flexion in the fork. I still get wiggly when standing, but it's much better.

There is a weird thing with the bike - you suddenly discover a strategy that works when you least expect it.

Anika - you sure are tenacious on those hills - that is an amazing climb - inspires me for sure .

I find that there is a certain angle of hill that just stops me dead - it's pretty steep, but I can only go 10 -20 feet then I practically fall over.

[HappyAnika]

I was referring to Starfish's climb of 5100 ft. in 19 miles! I just did the measely 2400 ft.

Standing uses up a lot of energy and is generally used just as you described, coming over the crest of a hill when you have just a short distance left. Also, it can be used on really, really long climbs, just to change things up a bit. You're more efficient when sitting. (I learned this all through other threads here, do a search for hill climbing and you'll find more answers to similar questions). As I become more comfortable with my bike handling, I also find myself standing to get through intersections more quickly when there's lots of traffic.

[Starfish]

I was referring to Starfish's climb of 5100 ft. in 19 miles! I just did the measely 2400 ft.

You know, it was actually an easier day for me, with less soreness, than my ride the week before, which only had 3400 feet over 50 miles. For me, the difference is the grade. I am slow, but I can keep on trucking if the grade stays under 10-11%. But, throw in some 13-15%, let alone what I read others doing up to 19-20%, and I get toasted very fast. (I'm starting more intensity training to try to help with this.)

Your ride, up to 9,000+ feet, sounds hard to me, with that altitude.

Sitting/Standing: I sit, unless cresting short hills or needing to give my bum a break. But, I have been weak at standing. I'm doing some spinning classes now that I think are going to help with that...building some muscles up for standing without the dangers of falling over on steep climbs, to start.

[RoadRaven]

Sitting is generally more efficient...

Standing is usually reserved for a short burst of power to get you up over the crest without losing anymore power...

[shawnada]

Hey karen, I too am from Boise and new to this board. I will be tackling the Bogus Basin ride this summer also. We should hook up and try it together. That was my thought exactly, ride to top and have someone bring me back down.

[Kano]

Hey karen, I too am from Boise and new to this board. I will be tackling the Bogus Basin ride this summer also. We should hook up and try it together. That was my thought exactly, ride to top and have someone bring me back down.

Cool Shawnada! I've told DH that we will likely need camping equipment when I do Bogus -- it's going to take me a LONG time to climb that hill! I'm new, carry way too much me up the hills, and it's a slow process -- but I also tend to be a stubborn old gal...

There's actually a "ride" up that hill in summer -- maybe in september? -- and I think there were prizes and such. We started riding last summer, and being just at the "any way I can climb it" stage NOW, we didn't go last year (probly not this year either) cuz there was a time limit. Right now, I'd consider the time limit to be about a week...

Karen in Boise, who makes slugs look fast on the hills!