Standover heights?!?

[Cari]

I've been wanting a full-suspension mountain bike for quite some time now. I've had my eye on a few models, and thought that as soon as I felt I could spring for it, I'd start doing test rides and such. I'm looking for 4" of rear travel and a 4" fork.

Now I find that I'm too short to fit on most of these bikes! So far I've tried the Ellsworth Truth, Ventana Saltamontes and Titus Racer-X, all in size Small... and they're all too high for me! So far, the only remote possibility I've found is a Titus Racer-X in XS, but I'd have to use an 80mm fork instead of the 100mm I wanted. What's up with this, guys? Are all female mountain bikers tall?

I'm 5'4" and my inseam is 74cm/29". My current mtb is a Gary Fisher Tassajara, a hardtail in size 15.5", which fits pretty well. I guess I like long bikes because even though the stem is only 90mm, the seat is pushed all the way back. I've been told that 2-3" of clearance is ideal, but that I should be OK with 1-2". Do any of you petite women have suggestions for full-suspension bikes that fit you?

Thanks in advance,

~Cari

[Kathi]

Cari,

I'm 5'1/2 and I have a Titus Racer X in an XS. I chose Titus because of the steeper seat tube angle that most mtn bikes don't have.

Could you get a custom frame that would have the travel that you want?

[yellow]

Why can't they put a 100mm fork on the XS? I too have a Titus Racer X XS, but I chose an 80mm fork. I'm pretty sure I could have had a 100mm fork if I wanted.

SadieKate has a Racer X XS too...she may have a 100mm fork on it.

[SadieKate]

Nope, I have a 80mm also. It has to do with the geometry and suspension design so that when the suspension sags under your weight the steering is at the right angle.

Cari, have you looked at a Marin Mt Vision? I'm a smidge shorter than you and have one with a 100 mm fork on it. It has a longer wheelbase than the Racer X. I haven't a clue what my inseam is. I set all my saddles at 70cm from the ctr of the crank to the top of the saddle.

What type of trails are you riding?

[SadieKate]

What about Yeti and Intense?

[snowtulip]

Hi Cari,
Personally can't help (I'm 4'11' with a 25 inseam, I ride a Titus Locomoto XS), but I have a friend with very same inseam and height as you (not sure about torso) that loves her Santa Cruz Superlight small with a 100mm. Not sure if the Santa Cruz Juliana would also provide what you're looking for.

[Cari]

I'm 5'1/2 and I have a Titus Racer X in an XS. I chose Titus because of the steeper seat tube angle that most mtn bikes don't have.

Could you get a custom frame that would have the travel that you want?

Kathi: Sorry if this is a dumb question, but... What's a steeper seat tube angle? Does that mean that the seat is set further back than the bottom bracket, or the opposite of that?

The only custom bikes I'm truly familiar with are Independent Fabrication, since I have one of their Crown Jewels (a steel road bike). Their fullie is called the Tungsten Electrode. My mechanic and riding buddy advised me against it -- said that it was overpriced and that the rear shock wasn't very good. It certainly is expensive, but I don't know anything about suspensions, so I don't really have an opinion. I can call them and see if they can make me something that will fit.

Why can't they put a 100mm fork on the XS? I too have a Titus Racer X XS, but I chose an 80mm fork.

Yellow: In the Racer-X geometry tables they have separate lists for sizes designed for an 80mm and a 100mm fork. There's XXS - S for 80mm and S-XL for 100mm. I guess I might be able to fit on an XS if I use a seatpost with setback and a long-ish stem. What made you decide to go with the 80mm fork?

Cari, have you looked at a Marin Mt Vision? I'm a smidge shorter than you and have one with a 100 mm fork on it. It has a longer wheelbase than the Racer X.

Kate: I'll check out the Marin Mt. Vision. I've heard that Marin bikes are heavy but very plush. Is that true? I was hoping for something light (unlike my mule-ish Tassajara). Then again, the same mechanic who advised me about IF's Tungsten Electrode told me that he'd buy a Marin Mt. Vision Pro.

Another dumb question: Is there a particular benefit to having a longer wheelbase?

I haven't a clue what my inseam is. I set all my saddles at 70cm from the ctr of the crank to the top of the saddle.

I checked that same measurement as a comparison: on my road bike it's 67cm, and 65.5cm on the mtb. Maybe you have sexy long legs? What size road bike do you use? (Mine's a 50.)

What type of trails are you riding?

Until now I've limited myself to riding in open spaces -- bumpy, with some climbs and such, but hardly anything technical. I figured I'd hone my skills and get into better shape and then move on the real stuff. The only real trail I've ridden so far was last Sunday! Some friends went to practice because their next race is there and they brought me along so I could try their bikes. There were slippery rocky areas, steep muddy climbs, some parts with lots of roots to ride over, switchbacks, and some scary bits where you have a short, steep descent followed by a sharp turn (miss the turn and you hit a tree.) I did OK, I think -- fell only 3 times in about 1.5 hours -- but I was on the Ventana Saltamontes with the 125mm fork on the first lap, and then the Racer-X with 100mm on the second lap. I don't think I could have done all that on my current bike.

What I have on my hardtail right now is an 80mm Fox fork. Do you think that maybe I don't need the 100mm?

What about Yeti and Intense?

I don't know anything about them (don't know about many brands, period) but I'm very open to suggestions so I'll check their websites.

[yellow]

Yellow: What made you decide to go with the 80mm fork?

Cost (I had the entire bike built, and the math required me to cut in a couple of places...the front shock was one of them). I have a RockShox SID on it. I was riding a POC before, so to me it feels very nice!

My hubby has the MotoLite. He loves it as he can change the rear travel from 4 to 5 inches. Of course his is an XL, I think, so his big person's fondness for the bike may not apply to your situation. It's not heavy at all. I think his weighs in at about 27-28 pounds (and remember, it's an XL!).

[mellic]

Hi Cari. I'm exactly the same height as you and know how frustrating it can be to find a bike as it seems we are between sizes for a lot of brands. The ideal bike size for our height is 15.5", but you should be quite comfortable on something 'slightly' smaller.

If you are not a very heavy person you will get away with 80mm of travel as long as the fork is sturdy. I ride with an 80mm reba fork and I am quite an agressive rider and have never bottomed it out.

Have you had a look at any Specialized bikes? Most of their bikes come in 15.5" (small). The top tube angle is a lot lower in comparison to other bikes giving you more clearance as well. I would have a look at an epic or stumpjumper fsr.

[tattiefritter]

Hi Cari,

I'm the same height as you with a similar inseam and I have an XS Titus Moto-Lite (the replacement for the LocoMoto). I run 5" travel on the rear and have a 90 - 130mm TALAS on the front, but the Moto-Lite can be adjusted to suit 4" on the rear as has already been said above. The Moto-Lite is an "all mountain" bike, whatever that means. It's awesome, in most things. Its not particularly heavy, I have never weighed mine, although I do know it is heavier than the hardtail it replaced (though that was fairly light). I did spend quite a bit of money puting a lightish build on it, but not stupidly light. It climbs pretty well,only slightly worse than my hardtail, I don't think it bobs too much at all. I have a Fox RP3 shock on it and there is a definite difference in the three settings. It descends like an absolute demon and I think it is a very stable bike.

My Avatar has me riding it though I don't think you'll see much !

I had similar problems last year when looking for a small suss and the Titus was the only one that I demoed and liked. A friend of mine is looking at the moment and her shortlist is Santa Cruz Juliana/Blur XC, Yeti ASR (not the 575 as the standover on that is really high even on the smaller sizes), and a Moto-Lite. There is also the Ventana X5 which goes down to really small frame sizes.

[adventurechick]

I am a small rider (5'1" and inseam of 27"). I was thinking of getting a racer-x but I also wanted 4" of travel in front and rear. So I got a Titus moto-lite. Haven't received it yet, it is on order. I did demo it and it had about 2" clearance. The only other bike I found that fit well and was not too big was the Santa Cruz Juliana, although the top tube length is a little shorter than the Titus. Good luck!

[Cari]

Did you get the X-Small Moto Lite? So far, that and the Juliana are the only ones I've found that might fit. But I've heard that the Titus shocks have a better reputation than those that come with Santa Cruz bikes. So if I had to decide on a bike today, I'd probably get the Moto Lite, too. (Mu second choice would be a Racer-X with an 80mm fork).

Do you know how the Moto Lite compares, weightwise, with the Racer-X? I would think that manufacturers would post this info on their sites, but I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Congrats on your purchase. Please let me know how it rides once you've set it up! I'd love to hear more feedback on that model.

Thanks,

~Cari

[tattiefritter]

Do you know how the Moto Lite compares, weightwise, with the Racer-X? I would think that manufacturers would post this info on their sites, but I can't seem to find it anywhere.


~Cari

Cari it may be worth having a look through the www.MTBR.com Titus forum to find out the weight of the respective frames. From memory when I bought the Moto-Lite a medium frame was listed as about six pounds in weight. The Racer X was definitely lighter but as I wasn't interested in it I never really paid attention. The XS will be also be lighter than the medium due to size and the fact that the downtube is lighter as well. I didn't bother weighing my frame when I got it as it was never going to be as light as my hardtail.

[Cari]

Nanci: You're a lucky girl... And I would seriously consider that Ventana if I could actually ride one. But I don't think those are very common here...

bcipam: So, you have a Moto Lite, right? Any info you want to share on that would be appreciated.

You probably have the best of both worlds, and if I had a better hardtail, I might go the same route. I'd *love* to have a nice HT, and if I did, I might consider looking at 5" travel frames as well. But since I already have my Tassajara, I feel like my next bike should be a dualie. Oh and regarding my comment on downhill bikes... I've seen some of them and they look like dirtbikes! I guess since only a year and a half ago my mtb was an old-school Trek with a rigid fork, and I've never had a full suspension bike, to me, anything with 6" of travel looks like it's fit for the Grand Canyon.

Kathi: Thanks for the link for info on seat tube angles. I have the specs for my road bike around here somewhere, so I'll check and see what was prescribed for me. Assuming equal rider measurements, is there a difference in seat tube angle between road bikes and mountain bikes?

Tattiefritter: I've looked up stuff on mtbr.com before but I didn't know they published frame weights. Thanks for the tip, I'll check out the Titus forum!

And finally...

I test rode an 2005 XS (14") Ellsworth Truth on Thursday and loved it. The bike shop owners were super nice -- one of them brought me his wife's bike to test. I never thought I could fit properly on such a small bike, and to be honest, I still feel weird about it. But other than needing to raise the seat and push the saddle back a bit, the fit feels good. The Truth's virtual top tube measurement is 21.3" -- almost the same as my GF Tass, which is 22". My Tass has a 70mm stem, so I could make up the difference by putting a 90 on the Ellsworth. I'm also concerned about bobbing, but the bike I rode is set up for a 130lb. rider, and I'm... not 130 lbs. I want to read more about the rear shock system on the Ellsworth site, but my mechanic says that it's just a matter of setting it for my weight.

I originally thought that even the 14" Truth wouldn't work, because the standover heights published by Ellsworth are the same for all frames -- 28". But the LBS owner said that in 2005 (but not in 2006), they made the top tube differently just on the XS in order to give it a lower standover height. The frame they offered is a 2005, so they're willing to knock a few hundred dollars off the price.

It's still a big purchase, so I'm thinking about it... But I think that if I manage to test ride an XS Titus Racer-X and a Trek Fuel EX 9 WSD in order to rule them out as possibilities, I might just convince myself to buy the Truth.

Now I'm off to bed to dream of groups & kits...

~Cari

[Kathi]

Kathi: Thanks for the link for info on seat tube angles. I have the specs for my road bike around here somewhere, so I'll check and see what was prescribed for me. Assuming equal rider measurements, is there a difference in seat tube angle between road bikes and mountain bikes?



Cari, no there is not a difference. The length of the femur determines your seat tube angle. MY road and mtn bikes are 74.5 - 75 degrees. I have one mtn bike, my Voodoo which has a 72 degree st angle. I really notice the difference when I ride it, I'm to far away from the center of the bike to get good power on it. With a zero degree seatpost and my saddle as far forward as it will go, I can't get a good kops measurement, my femur is that short.

I specifically went for the Titus because of the st angle. There weren't many companies making a mtn bike with the steeper st angle which I need.