Hip angles and max thrust

[run it, ride it]

My pelvis is very upright rather than tilted forward like most women. As a runner, I'm built for distance and not speed--I run with butt in and hips forward for max efficiency.

I just got a Trek WSD 1000. One of the qualities it boasted was a steeper seat angle to get you more over the cranks. But I can't get any kind of speed or efficiency unless I perch myself on the very, very front of the seat to get my legs under me--the pedals still seem too far forward from the seat, putting the most stress on my hamstrings and knees rather than powerhouse quads.

If I lower the seat and actually sit on it, it forces my legs too far apart and too far ahead of me.

So, am I just a freak of nature or am I doing something wrong? Any and all advice appreciated!

[Tri Girl]

Hmmmmm...not sure. Have you been fitted by a professional yet (and I don't mean just the stand-over check and other silly "fittings" some bike shops give)?
My LBS does a thorough bike fitting (charges $40- but it's well worth it to get the correct fit). He measures everything and then puts the #'s into his computer, gets some great printout and then adjusts the bike as needed. Very thorough and very worth it.
I would suggest getting a thorough fitting first to see what the problem is.

If you've already been fitted, then I would suggest taking pictures of you on your bike at different angles to see if something looks wrong, and then adjust as needed.

[Triskeliongirl]

It sounds like you want the saddle moved more forward. You can unscrew the saddle and push it further forward on the rails. If it still feels wrong, you may need a different seatpost, if you have a laid back one you may need a straight one, or some laid back posts can be reversed to essentially lay forward. If none of this makes sense to you, go back to where you bought it, and ask if they can help you move the saddle more forward, and if they think that makes sense since they can actually look at you and measure you on the bike.

[KnottedYet]

Depending on the length of your femur vs. your tibia, you might not fit the "typical" WSD set up. (which tends to be designed for a women's proportionally long femur vs a man's proportionally shorter femur)

Leg length (femur + tibia) isn't the only factor for bike fit, though it seems to be the one the shops look at first. The ratio of the two bones (femur vs. tibia) determines where your knee is relative to the crank and what muscles your body has to fire to get power during different phases of the pedal stroke.

If it feels wrong, your body will probably try to move your butt/hips to adjust the knee flexion, since it can't move your feet. (they are stuck with the pedals right where they are)

Perhaps your femurs aren't the extra-long versions, so the seat feels too far back for you because your knees aren't getting to center themselves over the pedal axles at the right times.

I have the opposite problem (looooooong femurs and the seat scootched way far back), so I might just be talking through my hat here.

Head back to the shop and make sure they look at the whole leg and the postion of the knee through the stroke.

[Bikingmomof3]

You sound similar to me. I did not fit well on a Trek 1000 WSD. However, I fit beautifully on the Trek 1000 (which I did buy). I understand WSD is for women, but my body is not made for the WSD design. I happen to have a very long torso, pelvis that does not tilt forward (not fun in childbirth, tmi?), and shorter legs.

[Eden]

You sound similar to me. I did not fit well on a Trek 1000 WSD. However, I fit beautifully on the Trek 1000 (which I did buy). I understand WSD is for women, but my body is not made for the WSD design. I happen to have a very long torso, pelvis that does not tilt forward (not fun in childbirth, tmi?), and shorter legs.

Ah, but her situation sounds more like the opposite of yours. It sounds like the bike may be a bit too long - the good thing is that she recognized it quickly. I used to ride a bike that was overly long and I had the same problem without knowing it. When I moved to a shorter top tube I found that instantly I was able to go about 2-3 mph faster (and no more knee troubles), just because I was using the muscles in my legs better. This was a suprise to me though.

I agree with the others, go get a good fit done. If the size isn't too far off of what you need a few adjustments may put you to rights.

[Bikingmomof3]

Thank you for correcting my error Eden.

[run it, ride it]

I was never actually fitted on that bike. Will try to find a place that will do that for me. Didn't even know the seat was adjustable back and forth.

I have a long, very curved femur. If I'm standing up straight, my thighs bow out front further than any other body part (even breasts). In addition, I have the shortest torso and flattest spine possible.

Thanks for the advice so far!

[Dr. Liz]

I'd find a reputable LBS and go in for a full fitting. Ask around if you aren't certain about a good place to go. Yesterday I had a very extensive bike fitting done. The spouse is getting a fancy-schmancy custom made bike, and as part of the deal, I got a free fitting, both for my current bike, and the one I am inheriting from the spouse. The guy went through everything from cleat position to how I was pedalling, etc., etc. He also had this nifty bike fitting thing, where he could adjust everything, from top tube length to handle bar angle, to seat angle, and on and on.





And yes, we took pictures, because DH loves to photodocument almost every aspect of our lives...!

The verdict was sort of amazing - my current bike just doesn't fit me. The top tube is way too long, the seat was too far back and too high, the handlebars were too big... it goes on and on. While it might sound kind of depressing (or like the guy was trying to sell a bike - which he wasn't - he knows that I'm holding out until next spring), it was actually quite fascinating. Luckily, many of the problems are fixable (not much I can do about the top tube, but they can move the handlebars around to take up some of the slack).

I pick up my modified bike today, and will go for the first ride tomorrow. I'll report back, but seeing how the spouse rode after his fitting on his current bike, I'm convinced that a professional fitting is well worth it - he was riding much more efficiently, and with a lot less effort/post-ride pain. I just hope it results in me picking up my average speed by a couple of miles an hour!

[Cassandra_Cain]

Freak? Never~

This sounds like an obvious bike fit issue as the other ladies have pointed out. Really, I think one of the biggest, most common aspects of a bike fit (along with knee angle, and hand/shoulder angles) is having the balls of your feet, more or less, centered over the pedals - putting your quads in position to do a lot of work.

Right now, your bike position sounds far from that ideal set-up.

Can you go back to the original bike shop? Or is there a reputable LBS that you trust?

I'm positive you can fit just fine on a bike, whether it is the one you have now, is hard to say without knowing all the variables.

[Triskeliongirl]

I was never actually fitted on that bike. Will try to find a place that will do that for me. Didn't even know the seat was adjustable back and forth.

I have a long, very curved femur. If I'm standing up straight, my thighs bow out front further than any other body part (even breasts). In addition, I have the shortest torso and flattest spine possible.

Hmmm. Some things don't add up. If you have a long femur, you usually prefer to have the saddle further back, and have a bike with a shallow not steep seat tube angle..... Yet, you feel too far back, or is it that you are sliding forward to reach the bars, indicative of too long a top tube? Who sold you this bike? When did you buy it? I don't know how a LBS can sell a bike and not perform a fitting. Is it too late to exchange it if the frame size is wrong? I thought that is why treks are only sold in bike shops, so they can be fitted. Perhaps if the LBS won't help you trek will if you call them. There is a lot of adjustments that can be made, *if* the frame is in the right ball park size wise.

[run it, ride it]

Hmmm. Some things don't add up. If you have a long femur, you usually prefer to have the saddle further back, and have a bike with a shallow not steep seat tube angle..... Yet, you feel too far back, or is it that you are sliding forward to reach the bars, indicative of too long a top tube? Who sold you this bike? When did you buy it? I don't know how a LBS can sell a bike and not perform a fitting. Is it too late to exchange it if the frame size is wrong? I thought that is why treks are only sold in bike shops, so they can be fitted. Perhaps if the LBS won't help you trek will if you call them. There is a lot of adjustments that can be made, *if* the frame is in the right ball park size wise.

I was fitted pretty well last year for the same bike. Don't remember what frame size it was. When I finally actually got the bike in a different location, I asked if they'd fit me to make sure... which apparently consisted of me standing over the bike and them checking crotch space. They also sent me on a test drive, but honestly, all I knew was that it pedalled easier than my steel-framed 70s clunker so I was happy. When I took it in for a tune-up they mentioned that my handle-bars were angled 'aggressively' but didn't say if that was a bad thing--won't it keep wind resistance down?

What is an LBS? It's a 1-2 hour drive to any kind of bike store from where I live, so I may wait till I go back to the place I was originally fitted next month. They seemed to know what they were doing.

And about the femurs: because they curve way out in front of me I need to be far forward to get myself over my legs. Make sense? As far as top tube goes, I can easily reach the handlebars from wherever I sit--it's just that thrust I'm not getting when I sit back!

[run it, ride it]

I finally made it to the vvfa(very, very far away)bs to address these fitting issues.

Apparently my seat was too far forward and my handlebars were too low.

Needless to say, the adjustments created new and worse problems. Now my hamstrings and calves are straining to push and pull what I'm sure my quads did a better job of, and even more weight ends up in my hands--AND crotch. If I try to bend my arms at all, the muscle next to the spine in my lower back on the left side hurts so sharp I can't breathe (believe me, I'll tough through any pain. But breathing is necessary). I just feel like I'm braced against this thing. 'Technically' it's supposed to fit.

Question: is the front wheel hub supposed to be blocked from view when holding a) brake hoods, or, b) next to the top of the stem? The guy who fitted me said brake hoods--but with the old clunker bike, it's next to the stem.

Guess which bike DOESN'T hurt me? Clunker 10-speed from the 70s. I can completely give everything I have on that thing (not that it gets me anywhere fast) and I feel light, balanced. I use the handlebars to PULL, I can crouch down as low as I like with a flat painless back. Even after agony on the new bike. But according to newfound fitting logic, old bike is too small for me.

I'm 5'5" with a short torso and the new bike is 54cm. Old bike is 52cm.

New bike is supposed to fit! What is wrong here?

[emily_in_nc]

54 cm sounds like too large a bike for someone 5'5". Of course, we are all different, but I am 5'2.5" and ride a 46 cm bike. I would think a 51-52 cm bike would fit you better. Since your older bike does, that kinda confirms that theory. Every bike is different, every rider is different, but it certainly sounds like a fit problem here.

Is your bike a WSD? If not, it's even longer in the cockpit. My husband rides a 54 cm Trek 5200, and he's 5'10"! Most guys his height ride a 56 cm bike, but he prefers to be more upright and has shorter arms.

I hate to say it since it may mean you have to cut your losses and sell this bike, but it sounds like the frame is just too large. If that's the case, you'll only hurt yourself by riding it, and selling it and buying a smaller bike might be the best option you have. I wouldn't buy another bike without a GOOD, full fitting in your situation either.

Good luck, and please keep us posted!

Emily

[SouthernBelle]

I'm pretty much the same size as you and I agree with Emily, 54 cm is probably too big.

I bought a 52 cm just yesterday and though the fit needs a little fine tuning I'm not having anywhere near the problems you are. At least on the maiden run yesterday.