This looks bad for Floyd.......

[Triskeliongirl]

FROM CYCLINGNEWS.COM:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...ul06/jul31news

Exogenous testosterone in Landis' A sample

By Hedwig Kröner
Floyd Landis (Phonak) earlier this year, at Paris-Nice
Photo ©: Luc Claessen (Click for larger image)

The aftermath of 2006 Tour de France winner Floyd Landis' positive A probe for performance-enhancing hormone testosterone is far from over. Germany's public TV stations ARD and ZDF have since questioned their transmission of cycling races if the sports biggest problem is not solved, and the German cycling federation called for an anti-doping law in Germany on Saturday, one day prior to the ProTour one-day race Vattenfall Cyclassics in Hamburg.

To explain the positive doping test result after stage 17 of the Tour de France, which he won after an impressive solo ride in high mountains, Landis has argued that his relatively high level of testosterone was naturally produced by his own body. The analytical basis for the test being the ratio between testosterone and epitestosterone, normally averaging 1:1, a suspicion of doping is being issued if this ratio is higher than 4:1.

In Landis' case, German media have on Sunday rumoured the result to be 11:1. "In our medical files appear not only blood levels, but also our testosterone status," said professional cyclists' representative Jens Voigt before the race. "It shouldn't be hard to find out if Landis is telling the truth."

But, much more important than this seems to be that the tests performed on Landis' A sample included an Isotope Ratio Mass Spectrometry (IRMS) procedure, used to determine whether the testosterone is exogenous (contained within, but originating from outside the body) or endogenous (produced by the body itself). In the case of the American, L'Equipe reported that the analysis found testosterone of artificial origin.

Jose Maria Buxeda, Landis' attorney, contests the detection method via IRMS. "It's not reliable," he told French L'Equipe. "Most laboratories do not use it. In fact, the laboratory of Chatenay-Malabry must be the only one still using it." In the same edition of the paper, however, Christiane Ayotte, director of the anti-doping laboratory in Montreal, Canada, disagrees. "We use the method regularly," she said. "Moreover, more than half of the WADA-accredited labs perform it successfully. I'd even say that an IRMS which gives a synthetic result is very hard to contest. It's not a method that anyone can apply but the LNDD (Laboratoire de Chatenay-Malabry) has totally proven itself in this domain."

It has been pointed out that Landis' thyroid problems, the treatment of his inflamed hip with corticosteroids, as well as drinking alcohol on the night prior to stage 17, could be factors which could have affected his testosterone levels. "As soon as an athlete is controlled positive for testosterone, the same old stories come up," Ayotte continued. "The increase, even if natural, of the ratio testosterone/epitestosterone cannot, in any case, be explained by taking thyroid hormones or corticosteroids. Alcohol can in fact influence it, but only with women, and only for three or four hours."

[Kalidurga]

German media have on Sunday rumoured the result to be

L'Equipe reported that the analysis found testosterone of artificial origin.

I have trouble with a rumour being spread by German media and with anything coming from L'Equipe. I'm sticking with my rational side and waiting for more information, from more reliable sources, before I decide how I feel about this issue. As far as I'm concerned, this whole thing is still totally up in the air.

[mimitabby]

I have trouble with a rumour being spread by German media and with anything coming from L'Equipe. I'm sticking with my rational side and waiting for more information, from more reliable sources, before I decide how I feel about this issue. As far as I'm concerned, this whole thing is still totally up in the air.

What she said.

[Raindrop]

Exactly as the preceding posts indicated. The European press and the bicycling community at large tends to hate American cyclists. For that reason alone I await further results. Publishing this type of press is like publishing only FOX news reports.

[Bad JuJu]

I tend to go with the concept favored by our justice system (at least nominally): innocent until proven guilty--emphasis on the word "proven."

[alpinerabbit]

Exactly as the preceding posts indicated. The European press and the bicycling community at large tends to hate American cyclists. For that reason alone I await further results. Publishing this type of press is like publishing only FOX news reports.

Oh please.... stop that, everyone. I've seen it in the other Floyd&Doping threads, and IMHO, it's offensive to non-USAnians.

If your patriotism has been scratched, that has nothing to do with Europeans vs. Americans.

Honestly... most people like Floyd, many people admire Lance. Do you think half the cyclists I saw on the last day of the tour were wearing Phonak gear out of Anti-Americanism?

I'd love to see him get off the hook but it's just so unlikely.

[Kalidurga]

If your patriotism has been scratched, that has nothing to do with Europeans vs. Americans.

I agree with you there, I think a bit too much is made of this angle.

I'd love to see him get off the hook but it's just so unlikely.

Unfortunately, you may be right. But we don't know that yet. I'm still waiting to see what not only Landis, but also Ulrich and Basso, come forth with to counter these accusations. There's a long way to go before any of this is proved either positively or negatively.

[Triskeliongirl]

I *hope* its not true, but this report just made me lose my hope. When I thought the only problem was the RATIO of Test to Epi, I thought there was hope, lots of good reasons why it may be so. But, if they really have mass spec data suggesting the testosterone was synthetic, it does look bad. I agree, I would rather hear it from the UCT, but so far in this matter all that has emerged first in the popular press FIRST, i.e. there is a rider with a failed A test, the rider is Floyd, etc. is true, so I thought folks might find this latest report interesting. And it did come from a cycling website, not the popular press. Does anyone know (I really don't) that cyclingnews.com in any less reliable than the other cycling websites like velonews and eurosport? Of course, I believe its innocent until proven guilty, but this information, if accurate, does not look hopeful IMHO.

[alpinerabbit]

I'm still waiting to see what not only Landis, but also Ulrich and Basso, come forth with to counter these accusations.

Absolutely not only Floyd.

If Ivan and Jan had any way to prove they never associated with Fuentes, they would have come forward a long time ago... With a DNA sample to prove none of the blood bags are theirs. Just stick a Q-tip in your mouth, there you go.

I am pretty sure that beautiful Ivan (my favorite)'s career is OVER. Ullrich too - he is too old to survive a 2 year suspension. (They are talking about making it 4 years)

See, no anti-American feelings. They get caught, too bad for them, bye bye.

[alpinerabbit]

Translation:

"Of course my list is shorter: it contains only those who are NOTeligible."

#1 says "doping idiot 2006"

[crazycanuck]

I have to say i agree with Alpinerabbit-I was waiting for someone overseas to pipe up & say something before i jumped in....

(I understand what you're on about-Trying being Canadian where everyone reminds you about Ben Johnson )

c

[tulip]

I'm with alpinerabbit, too. Floyd was a big hit during the Tour, in Europe (even in France, <GASP>!)

I don't understand all the science; I doubt that many of us do. I also don't understand why some folks assume that the testing must be flawed just because it's carried out in Europe (where the Tour takes place, remember?)

[mimitabby]

i don't think that anyone is presuming that the test is faulty because it was done in Europe; many of us related stories about bad lab tests done
in the US of A.

[Kalidurga]

I also don't understand why some folks assume that the testing must be flawed just because it's carried out in Europe

I can't speak for others but, personally, my problem is with the specific lab, not the country in which that lab is located. I cannot understand why they continue to have tests carried out in the lab that has ties to L'Equipe. This lab has leaked information to the press before (the Lance hoopla), and it was concern for that happening again that led the UCI and Phonak to make this public before the B test was processed.

If Ivan and Jan had any way to prove they never associated with Fuentes, they would have come forward a long time ago... With a DNA sample to prove none of the blood bags are theirs. Just stick a Q-tip in your mouth, there you go.

Yeah, this bothers me, too. Though it also bothers me that halfway through the tour, the Spanish police had still not given any documentation of their findings to Ulrich's lawyers. The issue in their cases wasn't blood samples, it was Fuentes' hand-written and coded notes that seemed to implicate them. I haven't seen anymore news reports on this. Does anyone know whether Ivan or Jan have gotten full disclosure of the documentation to be able to put together a defense?

If and when Floyd's B test comes back positive, I truly hope that he'll be allowed the opportunity to try and prove that whatever imbalance there might be is naturally ocurring. I also hope that whatever defense any of these cyclists puts together won't turn into the circus that Tyler Hamilton's did.

[RoadRaven]

Oh come on peoples...

What happened to innocent til proven guilty
Floyds performance and motivation to win is possibly a huge part of this... he had been training to win for ten years, and this may have been his only shot at it.

As someone pointed out in another thread, levels of testosterone rise in people just WATCHING a sport in telly!


The same day the above article was posted, this one was too.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...terone_testing
It seems much more impartial and definately more factual. It is written by a cycling news doctor - not by a reporter seeking to sell newspapers.
Heres a key paragraph:

This is because the form of the hormone that is available for exogenous administration is chemically identical to what is produced naturally in the body. Only a small fraction (about one percent) of the testosterone produced every day is excreted in the urine. Blood and urine levels increase after taking testosterone. But because the half-life of testosterone is very short, about one hour, blood and urine levels return to normal very quickly. Thus, measuring testosterone levels in urine is not an effective means of detecting steroid abuse.

Please note the bit that says that artificial and natural testosterone are virtually identical.

Now if it was blood doping, or EPO or something like that - well, yes, I would be doubting.
But this is not, its a question mark on a dubious test that has possible natural explainations ... and it has not been verified yet.

And again - another question, WTF would Lance step into the breach BIG TIME unless he was sure - he has too much to lose for himself, his fan base and LIVESTRONG.

Lets stop being so negative - surely you would all want a trial by jury too - not this media spew that is happening... tainting everybody with bile?