Problem is motorcyclists, not cyclists

[shootingstar]

Well in terms of fatalities in certain areas of Taiwanese cities.

But then some city driving styles, can be dangerous --not better than North America.

My partner looked at their cycling infrastructure while he was there.

[Sapphire]

Ugh...I hate motorcyclists on the road. They seem to be of the mentality that everyone should be looking out for them as the weave in and out of traffic. I'm not sure that they get that they're smaller than cars and more difficult to see.

I haven't had to deal with them from a biking standpoint, though. I'm imagine they can be a pain in the *** in the bike lanes too.

[spokewench]

UM, some of bicyclists are moto riders too! Let's all draw some generalities and look at everyone who rides a moto in the same light!

[Trek420]

I've had wonderful experiences with motorcyclists. Yes, there are crazies out there, wacky pedestrians, nutso cyclists, skateboarders, unicyclists, cross country skiers converting the skis to roller blades and OMG people on trikkes

But I've often experienced what feels like a bond of "4 wheels bad, two wheels good" with motorcyclists.

I got lost on my 1st attempt at a multi day tour. I stopped at a dive for a drink and a pee while getting back on route. A motorcycle gang was there. One of them overheard me tell the bartender that I was riding from San Francisco to the Russian River and back and was a leetle off course.

So they made it their gang goal to escort me back to the route.

They sent one of their riders from the bar out down the road and then back to their bar, then another one would pass me and wave and then back to the bar ... this went on till I was safe on the right road.

I've been on descents where motorcyclists slowed entering car traffic till I or my group get past. They know more than many drivers how tough it is for us to brake on a descent.

You don't forget this kind of help. To say nothing of our "moto crew" on the California AIDS ride, those guys and gals are angels.

Spazzdog on this board has told me about a couple of instances on the New York AIDS rides. In one case the riders were on a two level bridge. I don't know New York but I think this is one that enters the city? The riders were on the upper deck with opposing traffic below. I don't know how it happened but she says a rider fell through to the lower deck as a group of motorcyclists were speeding head on towards the fallen cyclists. The motorcyclists stopped creating a V shape around the rider protecting him till help arrived.

Motorcyclists face many of the same issues we do especially visibility and vulnerability of car crashes. We should be working together. We have a lot to learn from each other.

[salsabike]

Yup. The Gold Wing Motorcycle folks volunteer as SAGs/escorts on the Seattle to Portland ride. They're wonderful.

[zoom-zoom]

But I've often experienced what feels like a bond of "4 wheels bad, two wheels good" with motorcyclists.

What I've found striking is how many motorcyclists will wave at me as we meet, but how few other cyclists will. I frequently have gotten the "hey, you're clad in spandex, I'm clad in leather...but we're both at risk from inattentive, inconsiderate cagers. Hi!" vibe.

[Trek420]

I frequently have gotten the "hey, you're clad in spandex, I'm clad in leather...but we're both at risk from inattentive, inconsiderate cagers. Hi!" vibe.

Right! Which makes perfect sense when I am on my road bike in my leather chaps and bar vest and the guy on the Harley hog's wearing a Radioshack team kit and PI tights.

But seriously we both appreciate that we're drawn to and enjoy that feeling of the freedom of the open road, the whole wind in your face thang.

[shootingstar]

Motorcyclists face many of the same issues we do especially visibility and vulnerability of car crashes. We should be working together. We have a lot to learn from each other.

Except the problem in Taiwan is that there is an abnormally high fatality rate of motorcyclists..part of it cutting in and out without signalling by motorcyclists plus some of the car drivers.

Cyclists there look positively sedate, according to dearie. It is a cultural difference, where people might gravitate to using motorcycle or mopeds instead of a bike.

[tulip]

Did my usual 1 hour 5 minute ride today after watching the Tour in the morning. No idea how fast nor how far; I don't really care. I was out for an hour, which was my goal.

Oops! How did this end up in the moto thread?? It was meant for the ride thread. Too lazy to move it. Carry on!

[Sapphire]

Um, let's not get into 'I hate such and such;' have you ever read some of the things motor vehicle drivers have written about us?

It's pretty bad. Look under Crazy Drivers: Venom in an Unexpected Place on TE.

You'll see.

And welcome to TE. (No hard feelings, okay?)

Edit. Here it is:

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showt...ighlight=venom

Sorry...I stand behind my opinion as someone who drives on the Los Angeles freeways and as someone with a brother who was a motorcycle rider until he was rear-ended by a guy in a pickup. Fortunately, he was wearing a helmet and lived to tell about it. His Blackhawk wasn't so lucky.

I don't dispute that the vast majority of riders are kind and decent humans. I do, however, dislike driving near them and I believe that everyone--including the riders themselves-- would be safer if they didn't exist, or at least weren't allowed on the highways.

And I can see why drivers don't like cyclists. We are as much of a danger to the unaware driver as motorcyclists. As a runner, I've had my issues with "us" also when certain cyclists don't follow the rules of the road, or come down the path screaming for those of us all the way on the right to get out of "their" way.

We all have to share. We don't all have to like it.

[zoom-zoom]

We are as much of a danger to the unaware driver as motorcyclists.

A "danger" in what way? That they might hit us while texting or playing with their radio or turning to yell at their kids in the backseat and receive a slap on the wrist for being dumb@sses behind the wheel...?

[Jen12]

A "danger" in what way? That they might hit us while texting or playing with their radio or turning to yell at their kids in the backseat and receive a slap on the wrist for being dumb@sses behind the wheel...?

Hmmm...I can see this...maybe the word 'hazard' is more appropriate than danger. Think about as a driver if you were to swerve to avoid a cyclist who rides out in front of your car and then you hit another car.

I'd say the key is for everyone to be a little bit more conscious of everyone else.

On the subject of texting, I actually ride with someone who texts while she rides. She also does it while she drives. She's dangerous to EVERYONE, including herself! I can totally imagine her causing an accident one day while she's updating her facebook status to say she's out on her bike.

[maillotpois]

UM, some of bicyclists are moto riders too! Let's all draw some generalities and look at everyone who rides a moto in the same light!

Thank you.

ETA - I was going to say a lot more, but decided against it. Several of you (non moto riders I think) have identified the spirit of mutual vulnerability that we share as cyclists and motorcyclists. I feel that whether I am in leather or spandex.

And I can't imagine a situation in which any respectable motorcyclst would ride a motorcycle in the bike lane. or how a cyclist is a "danger" to an unaware driver.

[Pax]

Ugh...I hate motorcyclists on the road. They seem to be of the mentality that everyone should be looking out for them as the weave in and out of traffic. I'm not sure that they get that they're smaller than cars and more difficult to see.

I haven't had to deal with them from a biking standpoint, though. I'm imagine they can be a pain in the *** in the bike lanes too.

It so nice to be hated, thanks.

[spokewench]

This attitude is the problem that is so prevelant on the road; cars hate motorcycles, cars hate cyclists, cyclists hate pedestrians, etc., etc. This is what we need to do away with. We are all co-users of the road and we need to co-exist and be more aware, and accepting of others.

This is how we should react, not I hate this and I hate that. Consideration, awareness, this is what we need. There are always people in different arenas, be it cycles, motos, cars that don't follow rules, laws and are not considerate, but this should not be a measure of all.

I ride motos, I do not weave in and out of traffic, I am quite aware that I am not as visible as a car, but I do expect that others look for me a bit and also that they see me on a bike as well. I should Say I hope they see me and expect that if they do, that they respect my right to use a form of transportation that is not the norm.