How much does the bike really matter?

[zatar]

Apologies in advance if this isn't the right forum... I couldn't really decide which section to post in.

I just joined a cycling team this year and have my first road race tomorrow! My team members have really helped me to build up my bike handling skills and I'm excited to start racing. I've seen a lot of improvement so far and even shaved 5 minutes of my time on a ~13 mile course.

The only lingering concern I have now is my bike. I ride a 2007 Marin Portofina with pretty much all stock components. My parents bought it for me, as an 18th birthday present from REI, and I've really enjoyed it so far. I got it professionally fitted in late November 09, but have already outgrown it (thanks to a very late growth spurt!). I imagine the pain that has developed recently could be alleviated by raising the saddle, but I haven't done so yet.

I have started to look at new bikes, since I now have a (very weak) excuse to do so. I am wondering if it's worthwhile to make the jump to a more expensive bike? I looked at the Specialized Dolce Sport and Specialized Allez Elite at the bike shop today. I'd like to keep my cost below $1000, but might be able to spend $1500 - $2000 if it would make a huge difference.

I think I'm just feeling a little discouraged because I feel like I work really hard to improve myself as a rider, but then, I handicap myself by not splurging on a fancier bike. I was especially frustrated with myself last week because I felt I did really well at my first time trial (20.55mph, 194 avg HR), but my time wasn't very good. I didn't use any aero equipment and raced in my heavy-duty winter training tires. I think part of this was an unconscious way of shifting blame from myself to my bike, and I am upset with myself about that. It's like I don't give myself a chance at success, because that opens the possibility that I could have everything I need and still fail.

I think that's a large part of why I haven't splurged on a fancier bike already, but I'm tired of being that way. I think I want to go for it and buy a lighter bike. I noticed that I have no problem riding with teammates when they're on their rain bikes, but when they have their race bikes out, it's sometimes hard for me to keep up.

I guess all of this rambling can be condensed into a few questions.
1) How much does the weight and quality of the bike really matter?
2) Is it worthwhile to spend a significant amount of money on a road bike with nicer components (Shimano 105 range, probably), or should I save my money and continue trying to focus on improving myself only?

Thanks in advance for any advice and/or input you guys might have!

[kermit]

First off, congrats on your training and commitment. I wish I had the time and I will live vicariously through you and you accomplishments. You have a great opportunity to learn from other racers and pick up on what matters. You could go out and buy a $12,000 Pinarello, but if the bike doesn't fit you are not going to be productive. Obviously all the weight weenies will tell you wheels, tires, yeah, they make a difference, but it's still the engine. I'm sure in the racing arena, you will be surrounded by dream bikes, it's all about the dollar bill. It also sounds like if you are outgrowing your bike, your fit is what may need to be adjusted. My advice as recreational rider with friends doing Ironmans, keep you bike and ride the piss out of it. Lighter tires, yeah thats a start.
Take a look at the new Bicycling 2010 buyers guide. Your timing is perfect and the economy being what it is, there are more mid-range great carbon, ultegra bikes cheaper than ever. Start looking, do your homework. I've seen folks on hugely expensive bikes and they can't ride, and I am more impressed with the dude or girl that hoofs on an older steed!

[lunacycles]

How the bike fits matters a lot. If you have outgrown your current bike, you really will benefit from having a bike that fits you well, in both comfort and efficiency (=speed). If you can simply raise your saddle and still maintain an efficient and comfortable position on your current bike, then no problem. If you have grown in the torso as well as the legs, you might be able to put a longer stem on the bike to accommodate the change.

Weight? Not as big of an issue, especially if spending money is an issue. Where you will notice weight the most, in terms of speed, are in the areas you are fighting that weight with every pedal stroke, i.e., rotating weight = wheels/tires, cranks, your bottom bracket.

Components: if your components work as you like them to, no major cause to upgrade. More expensive components work a bit better, and weigh a bit lighter. Again, it is the components that rotate as you ride that matter the most, and where you should focus your attention and $$ when considering an upgrade.

[Zen]

I noticed that I have no problem riding with teammates when they're on their rain bikes, but when they have their race bikes out, it's sometimes hard for me to keep up.

Wow. It's only difficult to keep up sometimes?
When you find your next bike you're really gonna kick asz

[MartianDestiny]

Fit is THE key.

If you're hurting from fit then clearly you can't put forth everything you have, even more subtle changes to fit can make differences in output even if you aren't hurting.

Start here. If you've grown AND put forth a decent amount of effort training recently your fit numbers HAVE changed. You can play with this yourself if you want, but it might not be a bad investment to go back in and have a re-fit done, especially if you are having fit related pain.

As for the bike itself, IMO, there is a certain pricepoint/equipment level that really can make a large improvement. After that you pay exponentially more for very little added gain (and this is coming from someone with a $4k carbon "wonder-bike"...I assure you that is because it has the "ear-to-ear grin" effect, not because it makes me a significantly faster rider than say a $1k aluminum and 105 level bike would).

I don't know enough about the Marin to comment meaningfully on it specifically. Something to think about, if a re-fit will get you comfortable again on the frame and you haven't grown up a whole size, may be replacing a few components. New wheels and tires or maybe a GOOD set of clip-on aerobars if you plan on doing more than the passing time trial. You may not need a whole new bike to feel like you have a whole new bike.

[Zen]

I think she wants a new bike.

[zatar]

Wow, thanks for all the quick replies (and compliments!).

It sounds like my first step should be to evaluate whether my current bike will still be able to fit me. It felt pretty big when I first got it, but by last summer, it felt perfect. After my bike fit, they cut my stem down a ton. They also tipped my saddle back a little to alleviate numbness in my hands, but I noticed some soft-tissue pain after that. I was told that it was pretty much a trade-off between the two problems, which makes sense, I guess.

I've mostly just ignored the occasional soreness, but now, with my growth spurt, it feels really awkward to be on my bike. Both of my achilles tendons have been bothering me, and I've noticed some new knee pain as well. I'm not sure if my torso has gotten longer, but I know that my legs have for sure; all of my long pants are 2-3" too short now.

I did buy new tires today, so I am excited about that and hoping it will help a little! My team has a deal with Neuvation, so I could probably get new wheels through there. I haven't noticed a problem with my components (all Shimano Sora), so I think I'll stick with them?

[zatar]

I think she wants a new bike.

I think you're right. There's a part of me that really wants a new bike, but I also am a little intimidated. I don't want people to think, "Wow, she's on a really nice bike and still going slow??" Of course, there's also the money issue too. I just graduated from university last March and have a relatively well-paying job (for my age), but not huge amounts of money to spend without a good reason.

[marni]

I'm sorry but I don't think of 20.5 miles as slow. I struggle to get myself up to 16-18 mph on most rides, even though I train well and work hard. There's only so much an aging body can do and at least you have youth as a relatrive advantage. As to the new bike, you need to listen to others for fit, components etc. Good luck with it all.

marni

[Cataboo]

I don't know what's on the portofino... I'm not sure I agree with your bike fit... If you're having soft tissue issues with your saddle, you probably need a new saddle. You want the saddle about level - not tilted forward because that puts more weight on your hands... WIth your seat level, you shouldn't have soft tissue issues if you have the right saddle for you.

IF you have $1,000 to spend... what I think I'd recommend is you get the bike checked to make sure it fits you... Some of your racing friends can probably help a lot to help you set the saddle at the right height, etc...

If that frame actually does fit you - then I'd either recommend you invest in a good set of wheels for your current bike, good wheels'll make a big difference to you... or get an upgrade to your drive train. at least 105 level, probably compact double by 10 speed.

that'll stretch your $1,000 further.

If your portofino doesn't fit... then yes, upgrade the bike... but I'm not sure I'd tell you to go into a bike shop with $1k, if you're on the racing scene, you may be able to pick up a great bike used for $1k from some other person with racing fever... or someone should be knowledgeable enough to help you find a good used bike. You may be able to get used components or wheels off someone else, as well.

But bike fit does make a huge difference.

I guess this is your bike, unless you have the women's version:
http://bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeS...fino&Type=bike

The alex wheels on it or the sora components aren't great... I'm not sure a specialized dolce sort is really going to be an upgrade for you... yeha, it's got some zertz inserts, but you're still talking about alex wheels & sora componetry:
http://bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeS...port&Type=bike

the allez elite seems to have slightly higher end components..
http://bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeS...lite&Type=bike


But... TEST RIDE. You'll be able to tell if either of these bikes feel faster when you ride them.

Get your saddle height checked before your next race. If you know someone who has nice wheels, why not ask to borrow a set of their wheels for a test ride to try to see how much difference it makes?

I have nicer bikes spec wise than you, but I'm not as fast as you... So there's only so much difference a bike upgrade can do if the motor is just going put put. I do feel the difference with certain tires and certain wheels, even if it's only a 1-2 mph advantage.

[dianne_1234]

Assuming everything's clean, lubed, well adjusted and fits okay, upgrading your bike's frame or Shimano components won't make much difference in speed. Upgrading your saddle might, if you can reduce soft tissue pain.

For component upgrades, I've found measurements help; I don't have to judge what might be small differences by feel. Fortunately I don't have to measure everything myself, either - others have measured for me!

Here's an old article about how to go faster on a racing bike:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/aero/formulas.htm
There's no expiration date on physics so it's still helpful even though it's old.

The author points out that most of the resistance at racing speeds comes from aerodynamic drag. There's a table showing time savings from various upgrades. Here's where the article's age matters - you can't get most of those parts any more. But what may be pertinent to your situation is that there are no component class upgrades (Sora to 105) listed!

For faster tires, consider rolling resistance. For racing I use tires with low rolling resistance. I choose them by looking at this list, starting at the top:
http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_...sting_rev8.pdf
Of course, tempered with other info, like does my sponsor's shop sell them, flat resistance, price, etc.

In the end, basics for racing sucess are (1) Power (your legs!), (2) Racing smarts (your head!), (17) a basic functional bike in good condition. I've arbitrarily made the bike number 17 to make the point that there are other more important things, like good rest, recovery, motivation, teammates, etc.

Have a great time!

[Biciclista]

You might go to Sammamish bike they have race wheels you could try out. There are great fit people at several of our favorite Seattle bike shops too. IT would take one of them 5 minutes to help you decide about whether you need a new bike or not. If it's just your legs that grew, raise your seat and buy yourself some fab wheels. Good luck!

[kiwibug]

I have a specialized dolce elite and I LOVE it. I kind of stumbled into buying it, I didn't do nearly enough research and I probably didn't need such a light bike - I'm not nearly fast enough to do it justice, so I guess I fit into that category of people with a nice bike who can't ride Sometimes I wonder whether a Surly long haul trucker would have suited me better, and I figure that I can always add one to my stable later! My dolce feels like.. a second skin? I don't know how to explain it.

My advice to you would be to go to your LBS and try some bikes out. See how they feel. See how you feel. And if you have a nice bike, and then you realize that you aren't as fast even with a light bike - that's honestly the worst that can happen - And it's not even a huge deal. It sounds to me like you're a younger rider (I myself am still in university), and I figure we have years of cycling left, years to build up fitness. I'm okay with being able to grow into my bike a bit - I just started getting serious about cycling last year, so I have some time to get as fast as I want to be, and that's okay too.

Edit: I'd just like to add that I know nothing about racing but I support you in your quest for a new bike!

[WindingRoad]

Go to a shop and get fitted and look for a used bike. With connections of your race team I'm sure they will know of someone looking to sell a really nice bike for a heck of a lot less than what the shops charge. That's just my spin on it.

[zatar]

Thanks again so much for all of the replies.

I talked to my teammates a lot today and one offered to sell me her extra Ultegra (!) components very inexpensively. We didn't talk exact numbers yet, but I'm expecting it will be a huge upgrade to go from all Sora components to Ultegra.

I also am planning on going to a physical therapist for another bike fit. I have a history of weird orthopedic injuries and think I could really benefit from a PT's view of my biomechanics on the bike. One of my teammates said that I sometimes bounce when pedaling, which is likely a fit issue too. I'm hoping the PT will also be able to suggest a different saddle that I can try.

So, in conclusion, I think I'm going to stick with my current frame, but upgrade different parts of the bike. My priorities are:
1) Wheels (will buy Neuvation wheels through the team)
2) Tires (bought a pair of the Vittoria Open Corsa Evo tires yesterday and love them already!)
3) Sora --> Ultegra
4) New saddle (possibly one with cut-out?)
5) Swap out adjustable stem for lighter one.

I'm excited! It's not a new bike, but am guessing it will feel like one, by the time I'm done

I think I am feeling better in general about my bike too because I was still able to be relatively competitive during the race today. I didn't win, or even place that well, but I was really happy with how I did. We had about 15+ women working together towards the end and I won the sprint from that group! I realized that I was still able to beat some people, even though I know at least some had nicer bikes. It was pretty awesome!