Help with motivating a teenager

[DDH]

Help girls. I read TTaylor's thread on 8th grade math and didn't want to hijack her thread but I thought I also could use some help and who better to come to than all of you.

I have a gifted 14 year old boy, who, since beginning middle school, I have had to push and fight to get his grades up and not procrastinate and try to get to take some initiative or have some motivation, but I have failed miserably at it. He has managed to pull it out and do well, by the end of his 6th and 7th grade years, but has already failed one 9 weeks of algebra, and gotten D's in science and History or Language arts, I can't remember exactly now, in his now 8th grade year. Point is he isn't doing well or pulling things out this year and we are in the 3rd 9 weeks of school. High school starts next year and so does the beginning of things starting to really count when it comes to future education IE: hopefully college.
Just for FYI. He was a straight A student during elementary.

I've been told that this is normal, for teenage boys, also normal for gifted children, and so on and so forth, however, I do not want to blow this off and say "oh well he will out grow it". Nor do I want him using his giftedness or being a teenage boy as an excuse to be able to sch-luff off doing his assignments and school work.

I did not finish school, (long story). I went back and got my GED, however no matter what anyone says, it's just not the same. (not for me personally anyway) My one regret in life will be, not finishing school. Maybe I am projecting that onto him, maybe not, but one things for sure. His education is very important to me.
The teachers tell me to let him fail and suffer the consequences but I just can't seem to do it. I feel the consequences are to great to have to be held back a grade and not be able to go on to high school with his peers.
I need some insight and can take any constructive criticism. I am perfectly aware that I am not a perfect parent and that him being an only child is another challenge.

I thought about it today and was thinking about starting to make him do some things at home on top of his regular school work. Like make him go to the library get a book and give me a weekly book report, along with giving him some chores around the house.
Being a stay at home mom, I do everything around here and don't really require much from him other than good grades and he's not doing that, so my thinking is he needs some responsibilities.
Anyway, ask any questions and give any advice.
I can choose to agree or not, but I need input.
Thanks in advance.

[mayanorange]

Donna, I am by no means an expert, but I have tutored some struggling teens before. I know it can be expensive and seen as a taboo by the kids to 'need a tutor' but I really think if you can pair him up with a college age ish (ideally male) tutor, that might help. I honestly became a sounding board, role model, and just a non-judgemental (and non-threatening being near their age) support for my students. A lot of time it wasn't about the material we were working on. It was about me passing on my love of learning. And somewhat reassuring them that there's life beyond this thing called school, but if you want to reap that reward, you gotta get through it. I totally get how frustrating school can be to gifted kids (and non gifted kids too). Unfortunately school is super structured into a certain way of learning that doesn't work for a lot of people. So maybe different approaches than the usual school way of learning would help- museum visits, books- but more to discuss and open his eyes to learning than to 'write a report'. Throw out the 'usual' reading lists and challenge him with existentialism, the biography of Malcolm X, etc. Math is one of the harder ones to motivate, but just being lighthearted about it and supportive helps a lot. I agree with the teachers to a point- but one quarter of failing should be enough to get the point across without losing a whole year. Empower him to want to show you he is doing the best he can. And if his best is failing, support him. It's amazing how far that will get you. Please let me know if you need more specific ideas to try.

ETA- don't worry too terribly much about the procrastinating- I'm the queen of procrastinating and I was in the top 2% of my class.

[ttaylor508]

The transition from elementary to junior high is a tough one. I was very active in the elementary, so I had an excellent relationship with all my kids teachers and would volunteer in the classroom, so I felt like I had a good grasp on what was going on with their education. Once she was thrust into the junior high scene, she was on her own. There just isn't as much opportunity for parent involvement. I think a big part of JH is social and also independence. They really have to take responsibility for keeping track of their work and turning it in on time. Most of her teachers have very little flexibility for late work, so if you miss it, its an automatic "F" and one missing assignment can turn an overall "A" into a "C" grade in the class. So, I found myself totally micro-managing her the first year. I would go through what was due the next day with her everyday. By 8th grade, she took this responsibility on herself. DH and I have already been preaching the benefits of good grades to her like decrease in auto insurance premiums for good students, scholarship's etc.

I think mayanorange had an excellent idea about the tutoring. Even if it was a short term tutoring to get him on track. Especially if it was from a HS or College student he could relate to. I am really nervous for my son to start JH next year. He has always struggled a bit more academically although he is very responsible, he is not so organized which is so important for them to succeed.

Anyhow, I wish you luck!!!

[Biciclista]

My sons were abysmal at the same age. My older son was failing almost all of his classes in 7th grade, and only continued to have an interest in going to school because he was in Band. He is a musician today.
It's true that your coaxing, threatening and bribing him is NOT going to make him want to do schoolwork. But if you're like me, you know you have to be proactive, because he's not mature enough to make these decisions on his own. I watched as some of my sons' classmates dropped out in senior year. And these weren't borderline Juvenile Delinquents, either, these were the super gifted kids whose parents decided that their children were mature enough to make decisions like that.
We didn't share that opinion, so when Son #1 quit going to health class in his senior year because he felt it was a waste of time (and you must pass this class to graduate) we threatened to ACCOMPANY him to the last 8 or 10 classes so that he would graduate. I guess he believed us, because he did graduate.
The humiliation of parents showing up in classes helps with some kids, but it didn't help with mine.
GOOD LUCK, until he's 18, you're the responsible one.

PS after both kids being slackers in high school, my younger son is now pulling nearly a 4.gpa in grad school studying pure math.
My older son graduated from college with honors, but did not do so well in grad school.

[Irulan]

Mom of two GATE boys here. (GATE = Gifted and Talented Education, typically 97percentile and above) One is off the charts and we almost lost him as a student forever in the lower grades he was so bored.

The best thing we ever did was put them in our district's magnet program for gifted kids for middle school (grades 5-8, 4 classes, total 100 kids). Do you have access to ANYTHING? Most bright kids start blowing school off because they are bored, not interested in the curriculum, feeling superior to the regular kids etc. In addition, it's very normal developmentally for teen boys between the ages of 13-17 or so to really not have much motivation or follow through unless they are particularly interested in something. This is actually a brain chemistry/development fact, not just about attitude.

Chances are he's either bored to tears or has a learning disability ( which is different from giftedness) that is getting in the way of his success.

If you have access to anything to augment the school experience, go for it - even if they go kicking and screaming. if they have the option to work at their speed and create some of their own study plans, that is what I would recommend. I was lucky to have it through the public school, but in some areas you have to go to a private school to get the challenges. It's really a shame that the lower level kids in general get a lot more funding and attention that the high level kids who can "fend for themselves".

Where my kids did the best was in self study math: they were allowed to work on district math as fast as they could inhale it, and in what was called, Independent Projects where they could take ANY topic and make a full semester of study on it, covering as many aspects as possible. They entered high school at the Senior level of the district math program.

I hate to break it to you, but straight A's in most elementary schools isn't that great of an accomplishment. Any bright kid that's focused can do that, unless the curriculum is particularly challenging. Middle school has so many distractions, too - it's full of raging hormones and social drama - who has time for learning?

If your school has a counselor, you might talk to them about what kind of options are out there. One idea that other parents used was a super special extracurricular activity that would be funded/permitted if they could get their grades up. An example that comes to mind is fencing. I Knew a kid that really, really wanted to do it, and that was the carrot on the stick that worked for them.

Also inquire if there's an honors program at the high school level, and what it might take to get him into it. Good luck. If he's got the habit already of being a slacker, you might really have your work cut out for you. Somehow, you, or an inspirational teacher has got to trigger that love of learning switch.

Another resort might be home schooling - giving him the opportunity to follow some of his interests with guidance to keep it learning based. This however requires a HUGE commitment form the parents. I certainly couldn't have done it.

A side note. The teachers working with my kids and others were really big on parents NOT micromanaging their kid's work load. The thinking was, let them see what failing and forgetting things feels like, and learn from it, in middle school where it doesn't really matter instead of high school, where it does. God Bless Mrs. Mai, who literally got in my face and told me to butt out of my kids business, and let them learn how to be accountable for their own stuff.

as you say, take what you like and leave the rest. This is just my experience.

Irulan

[Irulan]

Being a stay at home mom, I do everything around here and don't really require much from him other than good grades and he's not doing that, so my thinking is he needs some responsibilities.
Anyway, ask any questions and give any advice.
I can choose to agree or not, but I need input.
Thanks in advance.

more unasked for commentary.
14 is plenty old enough to do lots and have lots of responsibility. The Boy Scout motto, "never do for a boy what he can do for himself" is really important. This is kind of getting off the giftedness thing - But I feel strongly that given a kid, yes even a 14 year old, responsibilities and the opportunity to both fail and succeed is critical to the development of a balanced man.

What about a program where he's got a chance to develop some leadership skills? Some scout troops are still focused on leadership by boys (not the moms and dads) and this can be a great opportunity. Or, volunteering (in something he's interested in).

And, helping around the house. Laundry, cooking housework, for starters. People thought I was an evil mother because I quit doing the kids laundry when each was 12. It's not rocket science.

[DDH]

Thanks girls. He has been in the gifted program for public schools since 2nd grade so he is already in, what they consider the higher level learning here.
He says school is boring, however the school system here doesn't really offer anymore. Also, they will not advance him or do any extra when he shows no initiative to do any more than he absolutely has to to get by.
This is where it becomes a two edged sword. I'm very involved always have been, but I have stepped back to try to make him accountable, but when he doesn't do what he needs to, then I feel I have to step in.

My parenting belief is that when kids don't do the responsible thing then we must step in and require it from them. Just as I wouldn't let him get away with not brushing his teeth because he doesn't' like it, I won't let him not do his school work because he is bored.
There are extra programs for the kids to do as you suggested, however my son has no interest, nor would they let him with his lack of motivation.

I just get so frustrated because I know his abilities and IQ level yet he doesn't live up to even a close amount of his potential.
I just have such a hard time sitting back and waiting to see if he is going to pick it up, and I can't just hope that it will get better.

I mean, I do hope it gets better, but I can't sit back and do nothing in the mean time.

We live in a military town that is city sized in population, but still country minded when it comes to resources. There just isn't a lot in the way of mentor type programs or extra learning outside school in the arts or music, or museums or things like that. I guess I could get him into FAA or 4H, but he is to techy minded to want to farm or raise animals and has no interest in any of that stuff either. So I am left raising my hands in defeat half the time, trying to figure things out.

I appreciate all your suggestions and you are right, it's not a huge deal for elementary kids to get straight A's, but it makes it no easier to go from that to C's and D's in his core courses and only an A in PE, or Art.

I just wish I could motivate him, and get something out of him about what he needs to help him enjoy school a little more.
If he would put in even a small percentage of effort he would be doing very well, he just refuses to do any more than he has to to get by.

Drives me crazy!!! I need a little smiley that is pulling her hair out. LOL

[Irulan]

Where is his Dad in all this? At the age your son is at, many times they respond much better to males than females. This is the age where they start to move away from their moms, and this includes just listening to them. Maybe if there is a strong male role model to read him the riot act (which you do have to do once in a while) that might be more effective. Just a thought.

[derailed]

I work with a lot of very bright people of different ages. I have noticed that a lot of exceptional young people do not "connect" with their teachers or parents til a bit later, but often do connect with an adult with hobbies or interests in common.

He may not be able to let go of his frustrations to talk to you yet, but if there is a personable counselor in the school system, perhaps you can arrange some time for your boy to communicate openly and privately, and step back.

Letting him have the freedom to speak his mind with an adult, and learn some methods to communicate to you what his stresses and frustrations are might help him open up some. He may lack the language at this point to explain the problem in an effective manner.

[sfa]

Have you asked him what you think you all should do? If he was an A student before and is doing poorly now because he's bored, he has to be aware on some level that continuing like this will only lead to more boredom--he'll either fail and have to repeat a grade or he'll be put in lower level classes with even more dull work. If you can talk to him in a sit-down, heart-to-heart kind of way and lead the conversation in such a way that he admits that he's not happy with his grades and would like to do better, then you can also lead the conversation around to HIM deciding what he should do to change the situation. It may well be your idea, but you can manipulate the conversation so that it comes out as his idea. With his "ownership" of the solution, it's far more likely to be successful. Some of that might just be admitting that it IS boring and tedious to do this stuff, but sometimes you have to put up with boring and tedious to get where you want to be. He may surprise you with some ideas--perhaps some activity he'd like to do that can be his reward for getting through his homework (along the lines of if he does his homework every day of the week, then he can go to the movies with his friends on the weekend, or he can't go out to play basketball until he's finished studying--don't make it be a big expensive reward, but rather something he likes to do daily or weekly already that he only allows himself to do once he's done the stuff he has to do).

Some of what he's dealing with may just be internal disorganization, which is pretty typical of the age, and he needs to learn for himself what it takes to get himself moving in the right direction and keeping on track with his work. Again, see if he can come up with ideas for solving the problem--maybe he needs visual reminders like a dry erase calendar with all of his tasks on it, or maybe a good alarm clock to keep him on task while he does his work.

But I really think the key is to get HIM involved in the solution. I suspect that if you just add work on he'll see it as punishment and dig in his heels further.

Sarah

[DDH]

His dad is here. He and his dad go head to head worse than I do with him. My DH is a SGT at the police department and has worked at the department for 28 years. He is very preachy and strong handed. The strong handed I do not mind, but the preachy stuff drives me as crazy as it does my son.

I have talked to my DH, (not in front of the boy of course) about making his point and then dropping it. It is a proved fact that most children will hear you for about a minute or 2 or maybe a little longer and then they begin to tune you out. Shoot, I do it myself if someone is going on and on about something. It's not intentional, but I catch myself tuning out too.

His father gets on him hard about things. We agree on punishments and things that need to be done, it's just that he gets very long winded and then I tend to lean to the more lenient side because of it. His approach needs as much if not more work than mine. Our son thinks that when we talk to him we are fussing. We can't seem to say anything even in the sweetest tone without him thinking that we are getting on to him.

I think you are right about the getting him to figure out what he thinks needs to be done, and letting him take ownership of it. I just don't know how to open up a conversation about it anymore.
He shuts down a lot of the times as soon as I broach the subject and then of course I get upset and start fussing at him, or just shut down too.
I always thought I would make sure I would have open communication with my child and tried to make sure he knew he could talk to me about anything. Somewhere I failed at that. He doesn't seem to trust us to open up to us and I guess that is our fault.


I will try again though. I never give up, I just feel like it sometimes.
I am always looking for new ways to approach him or help him.
I know he must be frustrated also, he just doesn't do anything about fixing the problem so the frustration goes away.

He really is a great kid. He's very responsible and trustworthy at home and when we go out. He behaves very well anywhere we go and never gets into any trouble at school. He's been taught to be polite and respectful. He loves to try to make people laugh once he gets to know them. He can be very silly and funny. His teachers and others usually find him very pleasant and love having him around. He can be very loving when he wants to be, but he's a teenage boy so that is not nearly as often as it use to be.

It's just school and getting work done. He test great most of the time so if they could just teach and then test, he would do fine. LOL

[crazycanuck]

I don't have kids & understand my ideas may not be welcomed in this thread.

I thought of two places I see often near my work & although i don't know much about them, they might be of use/interest?

http://www.kipmcgrath.us/

http://www.kumon.com/

Just a thought.

[Grog]

I do not have much to offer in terms of advice.

But I remember an older thread about taking care of things in the home and sharing tasks with kids and spouses.

I seem to remember - and it rings right with what I read now - that your son doesn't do much around the house.

Maybe it's a good time to start. Maybe it's a time to do more together that's not necessarily focused on you telling him to do school work, but something that's productive, in which he gets to see you accomplish things and he gets to accomplish things in front of you.

Frankly, even if I was in the best school in the province, a gifted student among a thousand ultra-gifted students, school itself would never have been enough to make me want to go to school and do well. It was all the other stuff, leadership opportunities, social activities, volunteering, etc. that made me want to go. School stuff in itself never quite motivated me, it was too easy. I procrastinated my way to a PhD. But all the side aspects, that's what really gets me going.

Sorry that's all I can offer. Good luck!

[lph]

This isn't really directly relevant to learning and grades, but anyway: our 11 yr.old is going through a pre-teen snotty fase, and we're trying to handle this constructively. We're pretty heavy on him on doing what he has to do, his few chores, homework, but we're also trying to show him that we're all in this together. I make a point out of asking him for favours he can do for me, and thanking him for them, inviting him to join me in housework that he doesn't have to do just because I enjoy his company, baking a cake, walking with me, asking for his opinion on things. This really seems to help with his disrespect issues, much more than just being authoritative and telling him all the stuff he can't do. Besides, he's a bright and funny kid and he loves me seeing that.

[Crankin]

All good suggestions. As a former middle school teacher and a parent of 2 grown up boys, this is a really tough problem. I agree, he needs some responsibility in terms of stuff around the house. I too, stopped doing my kid's laundry when they turned 13. They did the dishes, made their beds, and helped with any big tasks outdoors (we already had cleaning help). I would also recommend volunteering, particularly in an area that he's really interested in. The school district I worked in had a strong community service requirement, mostly because we found that the kids, especially the troubled or otherwise unengaged ones really came through when the focus was on something other than themselves.
I know you don't live in a major metropolitan area, but is there a college, community college, or university nearby? That might be a resource for mentors, extra curricular stuff. I bet if you hooked him up with a techie type mentor, it would engage him.
Both of my kids worked around 10 hours a week when they turned 16. None of their friends worked, even through college. They had to manage their studies, activities, and for the younger one, his training and racing. The older one didn't do that well in ms and the first 2 years of hs (he skipped gym so much, he had to make it up by doing hours at the health club). When college got real, he did a lot better, but still, organization was a continual issue. But, he graduated with honors from college and has a great job, in addition to being bilingual and living in Italy for a year. He still has the ADD tendencies, but curiously, it never affects his work. The younger one was always "bored," and went from interest to interest. Once we had to take him, in a snowstorm to visit the MIT juggling club! He did fabulous in high school, started college as a sophomore because of all of his AP credits, and then quit to join the Marines. Why? He was "bored" with school and wanted to do something really hard. He's now happy, but ready to be done with the military when his enlistment is up in 2012.
So, you never can predict!