What would you do?

[aicabsolut]

I have a dilemma. Help me choose an option.

My old frame is sitting at Calfee waiting for instructions to go ahead with repairs or not based on their final cost quote.

Old frame:


6r Az1 carbon (comp level). 2006 model Roubaix.

Damage:
(attached below)

Plus broken fork (not pictured).

Repair costs quoted: $700 for frame (up $200 from the original estimate, because at first I didn't know about the seat tube crack). Plus purchasing a new Roubaix fork: $100-150. Total repair approx $850 just for the frame. I also need a new seatpost. And the shop who stripped most of the parts didn't return the top screw for my headset (I have an extra cap, but I kind of need that screw...).


My shop thinks this is too much to dump into this frame. The entire bike cost me less than $2k. I still have all the old parts, most of which are on my new frame: 2008 Roubaix S-works SL (10r Az1 carbon). I bought the frame on a pretty good deal in March when the downtube fracture occurred, because Specialized didn't have any frames available for crash replacement, and they didn't know when they would get them in (if ever for 2008s). The only bonuses about crash replacement is newness, improved design, and they come with their own headsets and seatposts .

Original plan: I would just pay Calfee $500 to fix the frame (including shipping), get a warranty fork (what Specialized originally told me), and by then I'd be set to upgrade the S-works components and rebuild the old frame.

With the new price of repair, we revisited the crash replacement options with Specialized. The news is that with their crash replacement pricing plus a good discount from my sponsor shop, I could get either a 2009 Roubaix Pro SL frame (9r IS carbon with the new head tube and fork/steerer design) or a 2009 Tarmac Pro SL frame (10r IS carbon) for about $1200 (MSRP $1900).


Here's what I'm wrestling with:
1) Stick with Calfee. Getting the crash replacement means that's $500 I could put towards a build into buying another frame. However, putting $800+ into the 2006 frame seems like a waste of money. My S-works is a much nicer ride, and I would be using the old bike for some training (I'd have different gearing), bad weather days, and any time I'd need a backup bike. Nevermind. I decided to get the frame back. So, look at the next options.

2) Getting an 2009 Roubaix that is really damn close to my S-works. The carbon is supposed to be a bit lighter and stiffer, but it's still not SL2 carbon. The new head tube design is supposed to help make it more responsive despite the long wheelbase. It would make a much nicer climbing rig if I build it that way than the old frame, but do I need to spend $1200 on virtually the same bike I have?

3) Getting the 2009 Tarmac. Fit is my main concern, but I have raced for 2 seasons since I first made the choice of Roubaix over Tarmac. (That's why I bought the S-works Roubaix--I needed something at the time that I could build on Thursday and do a road race on Saturday with no problems). I sat on another Tarmac today (2007), which has the "team" geometry (130mm HT). I'd get the new geometry, with a 145mm HT, 73*. The Roubaix HT is 165mm, 72*. I use .5-1cm of spacers, but my stem is set to level (the stem says +8*). I know there are a few ways to make the Tarmac fit. I could probably get a bit lower and be comfortable. I don't want to make the bike too twitchy raising the stem and whatnot, because the bike will feel more responsive than I'm used to anyway. Then I think, well, if it's the more aggressive bike, shouldn't it be the race bike? Then my head explodes about what gears and components to put where. Again, it is spending $1200 on pretty much the same quality of bike that I already have.

4) None of the Above.I could scrap the idea of having bike #2 entirely, but whenever I do upgrade the S-works' components, I will have some parts. I am going to go talk to the shop manager today about what kind of upgrade packages we could do (we will have a team order night at cost+5% where I would buy parts). Maybe I should look into TT frames instead. Of course, I have been temporarily bikeless for one reason or another in the past, so having a backup bike to ride is a really nice option.

2) and 3) are good deals for sure, but which price is *worth it*??

For those of you who judge on aesthetics, these are the paint schemes I'd pick:

Tarmac: (gloss white with black)


Roubaix: (carbon with white)

[aicabsolut]

I asked the guy at the LBS why I would really want an 09 Roubaix if I already have an 08 S-works. He swears I will notice the difference in handling and response with the new design. He said I would definitely notice the change in the Tarmac's ride for 2009. I am not so convinced; I am not Tom Boonen. So, he is bringing more 2009 stock to the shop on Saturday for me to try. He wants me to plan to spend at least 30min on each bike. The only tarmac they have in the right level of frame is a size down, but they will try to get the fit done well before I head out the door. I ride by the shop at the end of my team ride, which is when I'll stop by, so I will be getting a lot of saddle time.

[Biciclista]

wow, sorry to hear about your bike! I am surprised that the carbon frame
broke like that!

It sounds like you want a new bike, so copy the dimensions of the old one you liked and
good luck. Have you considered titanium?

[aicabsolut]

well the bike was in an accident on my hitch rack and slammed into the steel post. i'm not surprised it broke. unfortunately, i needed renter's insurance to cover it (the accident was my fault, so not covered by my auto), and i hadn't bought any yet, because until recently before that I was covered by my parents' homeowners.....anyway, just bad luck. now i'm fully insured.

As for the seat tube, I think that was from some overtorquing done by my old shop. Long story, but when i was having some fit issues, I tried another shop who noticed the collar was embedded in the paint. He didn't think much of it, but he didn't want to move it (it also wasn't aligned properly on the tube), so I guess I rode that bike with a broken seat tube for over a year before I trashed the rest of it. The warranty people aren't cutting me a break based on what I think was the dealer's bad, because the later damage that's my fault is so much worse.

And no, I'm not big on ti. If I want to go with a different material, I'd get a "beater" bike in aluminum, like a CAAD9.

I just don't know if I should cash in on the crash replacement or scrap the whole idea. I asked for Calfee to return my frame, because after I did the math, I realized I could have just bought another comp frame. It isn't worth it to sink that money into that quality of frame. But, is it worth it to sink even more money into a new frame I don't really *need*?

[smilingcat]

I think you made a right choice by not getting the old bike repaired. It may be sound but it doesn't ride the same.

A person I know has cracked the chain stay. I still don't understand but what the heck do I know? Having a second bike for training or a backup for a race is always a good idea. I don't like training on my aluminum frame (my Specialized Transition Pro '07 model). Frames do wear out. So I prefer to use a beater bike for training.

As for your choice I would go with what feels better. Same out of the pocket cost for choice #2 or #3. So its a matter of taste and what feels right.

And personally, I would love to have a backup bike or a training ride to have the same feel as the bike I use to race. You don't get the funny feeling and feel little more confident about those sharp turns in the crits. You don't think about the machine when someone wants to jump out of the corner. You know the feeling of pushing your machine to the limit "can I turn any tighter or will it lose it?? or I can feel its ready to lose its grip. or your rear tire braking loose. If you are on a machine you're used to you can recover sometimes. On a machine you are not used to then you are more likely to go down.

BTW, I think both machines are fantastic. Roubaix is very nice It may have less of a jarring ride than a Tarmac.

just something more to think about.
Smilingcat

[kermit]

If you are racing and training alot, you need a backup bike. For what its worth, I just replaced my 04 roubaix comp frame with the 09 roubaix sl and yes it made a HUGE difference. Lighter and a little stiffer, but still the roubaix that can ride on old pavement and be comfy all day. My lbs guy, who I love and trust, told me they changed the geometry to make it a little more towards the tarmac. Me and my broken back did not want to go super aggressive, I ride for fitness and the occasional, century and sprint tris. The frame for me was 1600 plus labor for my ultegra to be put on. Sounds like your getting a good deal for either. Tough choice!
Oh I got the other paint scheme on the roubaix with the red/silver. I do love the white Tarmac!

[kermit]

Sorry to be a pest, but I got to thinking, did you call your auto insurance co.? I'm in Florida and here I believe that anything attached to the vehicle in transit should have some coverage. Just a thought. Fault doesn't matter you just have to eat your deductible. Try talking to an independent claims adjuster.

[aicabsolut]

Sorry to be a pest, but I got to thinking, did you call your auto insurance co.? I'm in Florida and here I believe that anything attached to the vehicle in transit should have some coverage. Just a thought. Fault doesn't matter you just have to eat your deductible. Try talking to an independent claims adjuster.

Yeah I did. My teammate's bike was also on the car. Luckily, my bike cushioned hers and she only had some mild cosmetic damage, but while she was waiting for her shop to do the inspection, I had to talk to my company about everything. They said that her bike would be covered b/c of my liability coverage, but that my own property attached to the car was not at all. The hitch rack, if it had been damaged itself, would be covered, because I think it's a "permanent fixture" on the car. The bike on the rack was not. There was a lot of nitpicking language, and I tried to work around it, but no dice. Sporting equipment in my vehicle is now protected from theft or damage under my renter's policy through the same company.

[aicabsolut]

If you are racing and training alot, you need a backup bike. For what its worth, I just replaced my 04 roubaix comp frame with the 09 roubaix sl and yes it made a HUGE difference. Lighter and a little stiffer, but still the roubaix that can ride on old pavement and be comfy all day. My lbs guy, who I love and trust, told me they changed the geometry to make it a little more towards the tarmac. Me and my broken back did not want to go super aggressive, I ride for fitness and the occasional, century and sprint tris. The frame for me was 1600 plus labor for my ultegra to be put on. Sounds like your getting a good deal for either. Tough choice!
Oh I got the other paint scheme on the roubaix with the red/silver. I do love the white Tarmac!

I was thinking that I could race the "cheaper" Roubaix and then ride the other. They'd have some different purposes, like different gearing. So whichever one got the climbing gears would be the one I'd take to this really hilly RR in the summer or maybe I'd attempt a hill climb TT.

The new Roubaix may be snappier (I'll have to see), but the turning is still pretty limited by the same long wheelbase. So the LBS suggested that for my purposes, now that I have 2 seasons of racing under my belt, that I might like to have the tarmac for more confident cornering in technical crits, and a little more response in accelerations. Technical crits are probably my strongest format of racing, so an extra edge there might be fantastic. The Roubaix could still be my road race or long distance bike. Gearing might get more complicated between the two, but since I only do serious climbing a few times a year, it might be worth it to have the 34T little ring just sitting around and get rings swapped for those special training trips. Otherwise, the terrain I'm on is fine for the 36T.

I was comfortable enough on my BF's tarmac on the trainer (we have almost exactly the same setup for saddle height and reach). It was just when I moved from the tops to the hoods that I felt so stretched. Adding 1.5cm to the HT would help with the new geometry. As would putting on narrower short reach bars and setting up the hoods like I have now on my bike.

I guess I'll see how I like the rides on Saturday. I know I liked the tarmac comp in 06 when I was shopping, but it was too aggressive at the time compared to the Roubaix. I'd never had a road bike before. My fit on the Roubaix has changed a ton since then.


Then again, I might find more utility out of a TT bike. Unless I can go down to a 52 in the tarmac, the top tube on these bikes would still be too long for me to get the right TT position. I have done a lot of TTs in collegiate racing, but when I'm done with my grad studies, I expect that to fall off a lot (maybe 3 or 4 a season max?). I could really have used a TT bike last year, and they do have a good purpose for me (I love TTs) but I would probably ride a second road bike more. But...a TT bike might be an even more expensive build..

I just can't think straight. I need to win the lottery and have money to burn .

[kermit]

Okay, one more option. If you go looking for a TT bike, my husband got the Cervelo P2C, quite nice. Very adjustable and not too pricy. Now that the P4 is coming out, nytro had some great sales. Must now go check my lotto ticket.

[aicabsolut]

Haha...yeah the P2C is exactly what I was thinking about.

[aicabsolut]

I sat on a 52cm Tarmac Comp. Hated it. It felt really uncomfortable--I kept wanting to sit off the back of the saddle--and the ride wasn't so great. It rode, well, like a Comp-level frame, though they put me on it more for sizing. That made me feel a lot better about getting my comp frame back from Calfee. It's just not worth the repair cost when I'd much rather be riding my S-works.

They didn't have any of the new Roubaix in my size. They wanted to put me on a Ruby Comp next. I said no. They said it would be for sizing (it may have been a 52 also--waaaay too small--my Roubaix is comparable to a 56!). I said no, I have tried WSD bikes. They don't fit. I don't like them. It is a waste of time. So then one of my buddies in the shop said, hey, I'll bring in my new Tarmac (the Pro SL) tomorrow if you want to come back and ride it. His is a 54.

So I went in today to sit on his bike. We just swapped out seatposts and pedals. It was awesome. I thought his gears would be too hard for me, because he has a standard crankset with a 12-23 or 12-25. It climbed this one steep hill right by the shop pretty well. On the flats, I felt like I was FLYING, especially on the way home after I'd gotten used to it. He had no spacers on it and a 120mm stem. I felt really comfortable except for his 44cm bars. They were so wide! I ride 38s. I think the bars made it hard for me to find a sprinting position, but with some practice powering up some short inclines (rather than going all out on the flat), I found a good rhythm. I just couldn't get in the drops and have any sort of support, so I stayed on the hoods.

It was the ride I was expecting. It accelerated like a dream. So responsive. It felt snappier and accelerated better than my bike. Some of that I can attribute to his better wheels. Overall, the ride was fairly comparable, just less relaxed. I was not uncomfortable at all. I think that it wouldn't be worth it to buy another Roubaix--it would feel the same despite some design changes. I can't sit on one, but the ride quality of the Tarmac led me to believe that the differences in the new Roubaix wouldn't be noticeable enough *to me.*

Now I am leaning towards the Tarmac IF the shop manager can ever give me a straight answer about quotes on builds. He apparently thinks I ask too many questions and hates that I like to take control of my purchase decisions, but you know what? I cannot accept his deal on this frame if I can't be sure I can put parts on it! How obnoxious. I wish my other friend still worked there so he could run a quote for me real quick instead.

Then there's the other manager who spent forever the past 2 days trying to convince me I want a 52 based on my size. He said I'd just gotten too used to the other bike and that for racing I ought to go down a size and put a ginormous stem on there. I think he doesn't like how I don't have gobs of seatpost showing. However, my measurements from saddle nose to bars was less than 1cm different than my friend's before we swapped saddles, and he has a 1cm longer stem! I obviously need the same reach even if my legs aren't as long as his to have the saddle jacked up high. It's not like I'm sitting right on top of the top tube or anything. I felt really comfortable on the 54. Isn't that what matters? I don't want to put a bunch of stack on the headset and find a huge stem and then still be unsure about my comfort.

It was easier to stand up and accelerate on the 52, but I hated nearly every moment sitting down. I bet just putting narrow bars on the 54 would give me better stability. Maybe my sprinting would improve on a 52, but would it still if I got the front end set up where I was as comfortable the rest of the time? I think I have a lot farther to go in just learning how to sprint better before I get to a point where the bike setup is going to be holding me back.

[kermit]

It sounds to me like you know exactly what you want and what will perform well for you. Don't let anyone else drop you down a size with a lower front and huge seat post. It sounds like you intimidate them. Oh no, a girl racer that knows bikes! You must post pictures when you get it set up. I do love the white!