Touring bike advice?/ Bike Fridays?

[Ered_Lithui]

Hey everybody! I'm planning a cross-country trip this summer. So I need to choose a bike....

I don't really have much experience with touring bikes (have owned a Raleigh M20 for ~8 years (since I was 12), but know a fat-tire would be awful on this type of trip).

I guess what I'm looking for is a WSD bike for someone my size that is primarily a touring bike but can also be used on a daily basis around town and college and can handle some off-road terrain. I want to make sure it's a good investment in the long run. My dad suggested a recumbent, but aside from the xc trip itself, other considerations (transport, parking, keeping it in my apartment) make me think it wouldn't be worth it. If I really should consider a recumbent, though, please feel free to tell me!

My LBS doesn't seem to have anything I'd be interested in -- a few touring models, but nothing that jumps out at me.

One of the first things that caught my eye was the Bike Friday petite series. I'm 5'3 and 125 lbs, so those bikes look great! I like the fact that they're easy to transport, and the trailer option is attractive (it'll be a self-supported trip).

That said, if there's a touring option that's just as good but less expensive, I don't want to ignore it because of an infatuation with BF's. :P I can probably spend up to $1500 on the bike.

Denise, you have Bike Friday experience and seemed to love your bike...could one of their touring models double as an everyday bicycle? Does anyone have suggestions/caveats about any sort of touring bike?

I suppose in conclusion...BF's look great, but I'm not married to any one brand yet. Advice?

Thank you!

Leila

[DeniseGoldberg]

Leila -
Absolutely, you can use a Bike Friday as an everyday bike. I actually have two of them - one set up as a skinny-tired road bike (a Pocket Rocket, purchased before they made the Petite line, although I've considered trading it in for a Petite!), and one set up as a touring bike (an Air Glide). The reason I bought my first Bike Friday was so I could take a bike with me on trips when I was flying somewhere without dealing with a full-sized bike case and excess baggage charges. The bikes are built with a drive train that gives you the same gear ratios as on a "regular" bike, so they are not any more or less difficult to ride than other bikes. I've toured extensively on the Air Glide; that's the bike that I used on my cross-country trip. And I ride my Pocket Rocket quite often too. The Pocket Rocket is set up with all road components (Ultegra) and slightly higher gearing than the Air Glide. For the Air Glide - knowing that I would be hauling my gear and riding up mountain roads, I opted by slightly lower gearing by using an Ultegra front derailleur and an XT rear - and mountain-bike brakes, which gives me more clearance for the fatter tires I like when I'm touring. Since the bikes are made to order they can pretty much come up with whatever you need. And I would be happy with either style of bike (the Air or the Pocket) as a touring bike.

If you have more questions, please ask & I'll try to answer them.

But if you are seriously thinking of going with a Bike Friday I'd encourage you to call them and start looking at options. There is a little bit of lead time since the bikes are made to order (not a lot - but you can't decide you want one and have it delivered within days!).

--- Denise

[emily_in_nc]

Hi Leila ~

I also have a Bike Friday and can highly recommend this bike as both a touring and "every day" bike. I have the Petite Pocket Crusoe but had them put drop bars on it, since that is what I am used to, and I wanted the multiple hand positions. I love it. My husband and I did a self-supported tour last fall in the Finger Lakes and Adirondacks areas of New York, and it performed wonderfully with front and rear panniers. I didn't even get a single flat! I use it now around town with a rear rack and Arkel Tailrider pack for quick trips out and about or for longer rides in the countryside. It's comfy and a lot of fun to ride, and really, it feels just like my full-size bikes, I promise!

If you want a Petite Bike Friday (they're lighter, which is why I wanted one), you will probably need to tour with a trailer as you're planning, because the petite series can't handle a huge amount of weight, and you'll probably want to carry quite a bit for a cross-country tour unless you can travel really light. I believe they told me that 125 lb. rider plus 20-25 lbs. of luggage on the bike was the maximum recommended. I weigh about 105 so could handle a little more luggage. I think I had about 25 lbs. or 30 at the very tops; my husband carried most of the heavy stuff!

Have you read my review of my Bike Friday? If not, check out www.girlbike.com. Also, I have a web site of our tour, where you can see numerous Bike Friday pictures (my husband has a Pocket Crusoe too). Check out Our New York State bike tour site.

I chose the Pocket Crusoe primarily because I wanted a Friday with 406 wheels, which accommodate wider tires (I run 1.35" tires, which are great for gravely and bumpy roads), and work well with V-brakes (mountain bike brakes). There's plenty of fender clearance room, and I did appreciate very much being able to use fenders on tour (couple of rainy days), and keep them on to this day. Because STI shifting doesn't work all that well with V-brakes, I went with bar-end shifting, which I'd never used before but quickly grew to like very much indeed. It shifts much easier and smoother in the front than an STI triple, that I can promise you! Like Denise, I chose an Ultegra front derailleur and an XT rear for a really LOW low gear. I needed every gear in NY state, to be sure.

Good luck with your decision, and please keep us posted. Let me know if I can answer any other specific questions. I really don't think you can go wrong with a Bike Friday, though!

Emily in NC

P.S. If you call Bike Friday for further information, ask to speak to Walter. He is incredibly knowledgeable and can answer all your questions.

[annie]

Emily,

Loved your New York State Bike tour site! Great photos and narrartive. Sounds like you had such a great time! Do you have any more tours planned?

The Bike Friday is interesting . It looks so different than a "normal" bike but I have to believe you and Denise when you tell how well it functions. At some point I am probably going to get a touring bike. So I appreciate very much reading tales from people who have touring experience.

annie

[emily_in_nc]

Emily,

Loved your New York State Bike tour site! Great photos and narrartive. Sounds like you had such a great time! Do you have any more tours planned?

The Bike Friday is interesting . It looks so different than a "normal" bike but I have to believe you and Denise when you tell how well it functions. At some point I am probably going to get a touring bike. So I appreciate very much reading tales from people who have touring experience.

annie

Glad you liked the site, Annie. Are you the same Annie who has an Aegis Swift? (That's my other road bike - the one in my avatar). Love that one too!

As for looking different, you're definitely right. Bike Fridays are not for shrinking violets, that's for sure! We get asked about them everywhere we go. But that's fine with me - I love being different, and I don't mind talking about my sweet little bike one bit! I drive a Honda Element, for Pete's sake...being different is fun!

Emily

[annie]

Glad you liked the site, Annie. Are you the same Annie who has an Aegis Swift? (That's my other road bike - the one in my avatar). Love that one too!

As for looking different, you're definitely right. Bike Fridays are not for shrinking violets, that's for sure! We get asked about them everywhere we go. But that's fine with me - I love being different, and I don't mind talking about my sweet little bike one bit! I drive a Honda Element, for Pete's sake...being different is fun!

Emily

Not the same Annie. But totally happy with my Project OneTrek 5200WSD. I'd probably love the Aegis, too. I love bikes!

Being different would absolutely not bother me! In fact, it might inch me a little closer to making a decision As long as the bike fit and was as comfortable as I'd like, and it sounds like that isn't in doubt, I could be very happy!

I've also looked at the xtracyle website. http://www.xtracycle.com/html/home.php
That, too, is different looking but sounds very appealing. I'm just not sure it'd be right for me. I don't haul BIG loads.

I've looked at the Surly Long Haul Trucker. That sounds like a beauty of a frame and I could build up the bike with components of choice. Sounds like I could do that with the Bike Friday, too. If I am ever going to do a long, self-supported tour, I want the gearing that will allow me to survive mountain passes with a loaded bike. Most stock touring bikes don't seem to come with sensible, low gears.

There's so much to consider. I am not in a hurry. I'm only in for short tours this summer. But next year, we'll see. I hope to be able to do a longer trip. It's been great reading websites, such as Denise's and Emily's, that have photos and stories. Very inspiring! If anyone has any to share, please do!

[DeniseGoldberg]

... If I am ever going to do a long, self-supported tour, I want the gearing that will allow me to survive mountain passes with a loaded bike. Most stock touring bikes don't seem to come with sensible, low gears.

Annie -
Like you and Emily, I guess I just like bikes! I am the lucky owner of not one, but two, custom-built touring bikes - my Bike Friday, plus a diamond-frame bike made by Peter Mooney. While I love my custom bikes and would have a very hard time buying a stock bike, don't forget that you can usually swap parts on stock bikes at your LBS. So if a stock bike fits you but you don't like the gearing, you may be able to have the gearing changed when you buy the bike.

That said, I'd still encourage you to explore custom bikes when you're ready for a touring bike...

--- Denise

[Ered_Lithui]

Thanks for your replies, Denise and Emily!

I would have responded earlier but for the fact that I've been mulling this over studiously.
I have been talking with a salesperson at Bike Friday about getting either a petite New World Tourist or a petite Pocket Crusoe. He's pushing the Pocket Crusoe, but given that it's more expensive I'm hesitant. The main difference as far as I can understand seems to be that the Crusoe is marketed as being more "rugged". Is that perception right, and does this translate to better off-road handling? Or...? Would there really be that great a difference in performance between the two?

Looking at the New World Tourist, he sent me a design for a NWT Capreo 27, which is towards the high end of the price spectrum. If I went to a less expensive model (say, the NWT 24 or 27) do you think I'd still be getting the kind of bike I need? I'm reluctant to get all top-end components just for the heck of it, but if they will really make the difference I'd bite the bullet (understanding, of course, that the components make the bike...). I liked your comments on derailleurs and shifters, and would probably invest in some upgrades or swaps in any case. Trying to be reasonable on a student budget!

I'd love your objective opinions on this so as to feel a bit more informed when I make the decision. Thanks!

[MomOnBike]

Being one of the few recumbent riders around here, I really have to put in a plug for 'bents. At least take a look at a few.

I bought my Long Wheel Base recumbent because I want to go on long tours. It makes sense (to me) because I'm always looking at the scenery, clouds, wildlife - sometimes even the road. It's harder to do that on an upright. A LWB can be a handful in tight situations and for transporting, though - but really, no worse than a tandem.

Not all recumbents stretch into the next county, and some folk take the Short Wheel Base models on long tours. It's worth looking in to.

One other thought. There is a pretty active resale market in 'bents. If you fall in love with (for instance) a Tour Easy or Stratus, you can resell it at the end of the summer and buy an in-town bike.

If you are really interested, go to http://www.bentrideronline.com/ and browse, and ask a few questions. The guys there are a helpful bunch, you'll have no shortage of advise.

[DeniseGoldberg]

I have been talking with a salesperson at Bike Friday about getting either a petite New World Tourist or a petite Pocket Crusoe. He's pushing the Pocket Crusoe, but given that it's more expensive I'm hesitant. The main difference as far as I can understand seems to be that the Crusoe is marketed as being more "rugged". Is that perception right, and does this translate to better off-road handling? Or...? Would there really be that great a difference in performance between the two?

Looking at the New World Tourist, he sent me a design for a NWT Capreo 27, which is towards the high end of the price spectrum. If I went to a less expensive model (say, the NWT 24 or 27) do you think I'd still be getting the kind of bike I need?

Leila -
I just took a look at the Bike Friday web site to check the two bikes you are looking at. It's hard for me to tell the differences between the NWT and the Crusoe, but given that the Crusoe is a newer design, I assume that there were some improvements built into that bike. You could ask them if there is a customer you could talk to who has experience with both bikes, but that might be a long shot. I'm sure there are happy customers of both bikes. My own instinct would be to go with the Crusoe.

On the Capreo vs. not Capreo... it appears that the Capreo cog set (Shimano) has a wider range of gears (9 - 26) than a typical cog set (11 - 24). This would allow the bike to be built with smaller chain rings. Where this makes a difference is in packing the bike. When I pack my Pocket Rocket (which folds in a similar fashion to the NWT or Crusoe) into its suitcase, I have to remove the right side pedal with chain rings attached. I think that with the Capreo cog set (which didn't exist when I bought my bike) that the bike could be packed without removing the chain rings.

Hope this helps some...
--- Denise

[Ered_Lithui]

Thanks, Denise!

I just got off the phone with Kurt at BF and quizzed him about these and other issues.

What he said: the Pocket Crusoe is basically just lighter than the NWT (the web site says 19.7 lbs versus the NWT's 24.7 lbs, now that I look at it). Also, Crusoe is available in Petite, whereas NWT is not. They'd be willing to size a NWT down for me (lol...if I get it, I'll probably call it the NEWT), but it would still be "about 1 1/2 to 2 pounds heavier" than the corresponding Crusoe. (Just looking at the standard weights, though, I wonder if it might be more like 5 pounds heavier). He said that I'm probably not likely to notice much of a difference when it's fully loaded, but that the Crusoe would have a lighter, sportier feel when it's just me and the bike. Then again, the NWT can take more weight on the frame itself (since I'm leaning towards the trailer option, this is probably not a big issue). The two models are designed for the same terrain and can be fitted with all of the same components.

Capreo: rear hub system that duplicates the gearing of a larger bike -- so essentially higher gearing. I thought that BF gearing already compensated for the smaller wheel size?... So apparently this takes it further.... Both you and Emily mentioned wanting *lower* gearing, though, which makes sense to me (having been warned more than once about the dangers to my knees of overusing high gears, which I'm wont to do). I asked about packing the bike--with the Capreo, you still have to remove the pedal (I'm guessing that means removing the chain rings too?). So it seems like the non-Capreo option would be just as good, if not better.

Hmmm...so looking at some of the options if I go Friday:

New World Tourist 27
*23.2 lbs
*$1,270
*not available in Petite

New World Tourist Capreo 27
*22.0 lbs
*$1,710
*Not available in Petite

Petite Tour Lite Crusoe
*17.8 lbs
*$1,750

Hehe. The weight-bearing capacity of a Petite might be a double-edged sword in terms of whom I'd be able to lend it to or allow to test-ride it. (Sorry, Dad!)

I guess the question is whether to invest in the lighter-weight model with its pros and cons.

Do you have any special theft considerations with regards to BF's? Does anything about them make them easier to steal or more likely to be a target? Does the unique design make them too conspicuous to risk stealing, or is it an attraction? Bike theft is rampant at my college (even securely-locked bikes get taken), so it's a prosaic but important consideration for me. I could keep it in my dorm room, I guess.

MomOnBike: Thanks for the input on recumbents! They do look like a fun way to ride. As a person with a history of lower-back (disc) pain, I'm curious as to the kind of support a recumbent seat provides (or does it vary a lot by brand?). Does your weight tend to be pretty evenly spread from lower to upper back?

Thanks so much for all of your help! You guys are wonderful.

[DeniseGoldberg]

Capreo: rear hub system that duplicates the gearing of a larger bike -- so essentially higher gearing. I thought that BF gearing already compensated for the smaller wheel size?... So apparently this takes it further....

Do you have any special theft considerations with regards to BF's?

The gear ration comes from a combination of the chain rings, the hub, and the wheel size. So to get the same gearing of a big-wheeled bike on a little-wheeled Bike Friday, you will find that the chain rings are bigger than those on a big-wheeled bike. And for packing - the chain rings are attached to the crank, so you just pull the crank (and pedal...) from the right side of the bike when you pack it. If you're interested in gear inch calculations, there's an online tool at http://www.panix.com/~jbarrm/cycal/cycal.30f.html.

Theft considerations? No matter what bike I take, I always lock it when I'm not with it. But, I do compromise on the type of lock. I carry a cable lock with a built in combination lock - can't get those U-locks around trees! I'd hate to have a bike stolen while on tour, but I know that it could happen. I guess if it does that I'll just deal with it then... I don't let my bike dictate what I do though. If I want to do something, I lock the bike up in what feels like a reasonable place and head off to do whatever. For example, when I took my first solo tour I was in Glacier National Park and I wanted to spend a day hiking. I left my bike locked to a tree at my campsite - and it was still locked to the tree when I returned. On my cross-country trip, I wanted to wander around (sans bike) in Niagara Falls, Ontario. I locked the bike to a pole in a busy section of town, left the trailer with the bike, and just hoped for the best. I found it patiently waiting for me when I returned...

You will let us know which bike you end up with, right?

--- Denise

[emily_in_nc]

Hello again Leila~

The reason I chose the petite Crusoe over the NWT was indeed weight. The lighter you are, the more important having a light bike to lug up every hill (or mountain) is. I paid more for that advantage.

Also, with the new Samsonite suitcases, I do not have to take off my chainring or pedal to pack the bike into a suitcase! I have read that the new suitcase has slightly more volume but is still an airline-approved size (i.e., no extra luggage/bike fee).

I did not go with the Capreo cogset because I wanted lower gearing. I was able to go with a nearly standard chainring combination (Ultegra 53-42-30, which is actually a standard crankset for tandems). With the smaller wheels, that makes for lower gearing than on a road bike, but I have not had any problems with it at all. I rarely use the granny here in central NC except on the occasional really steep climb, and I can't remember running out of gears on the high end either, since if the descent is steep and long enough, I don't mind coasting. I used Sheldon Brown's gear-inch calculator to figure out my gearing and have been very happy with it (I have 11-32 teeth in the back, so I believe my low gear is about a 17", and I needed it in upstate NY!)

As for theft, I don't leave my bike anywhere I can't keep it in plain sight (or have hubby guard it), so thankfully that has not been an issue. Folding bikes are easier to hide inside your car or trunk than a standard bike since you can just fold 'em up and put them in, so in that way, a folder like a Friday is actually a plus!

Keep us posted about what you decide!

Emily

[MomOnBike]

As for the seat on a recumbent, that can vary. Mine (EZ Sport) is really cush. The back is mesh, and, hmm, my back doesn't even notice it. (I have a tender back, too.) FWIW, I've talked to Physical Therapists who have recommended 'bents for bad backs.

As you guessed, the range and variety of seats is wide and variable. I haven't been on one, but there are one-piece molded seats - but those seem to be favored by the go-fast crowd. The bicycle tourers tend to go for foam seat, mesh back. Most have a lumbar curve to the back, so are pretty ergo. As with all things, you really have to find out if your body likes that bike/seat. Keep in mind that many (most?) seats let you adjust the seat/back angle to your preference - and that that preference can change. They aren't hard to adjust. (Not available on hard shell seats.)

Test one and see what you think.

As for theft - all bets are off on a college campus. I like to think that my large and distinctive bike makes for a good theft deterrent all by itself. I lock it (generally) when going into a store, or similar, and I sure would if leaving it at a campsight while out exploring, but it gets noticed. Thieves don't like that much.

One last thing (Ha!), as of last night, the Bike Friday site has a used Bike Saturday up for sale. Something to consider...

One last, last thing (really), perhaps your Dad would "store" a recumbent for you while you are at college and you use a bike there that won't break your heart if it "accidently" leaves with someone else.

[Surlygirl]

There is a great article in this months Adventure Cyclist Called "How to buy a Touring Bike by John Schubert as well as a section called "Touring Bikes for your Consideration which is quite extensive. It includes regular Touring bikes, recumbents and folding bikes.
www.adventurecycling.org.