It only takes one jerk to make me want to swear-off group rides.

Last Summer there was a woman who would attend some of the nearby Tues. night womens-only rides I like to do. It got to where I was so relieved on the weeks when she didn't show and on those when she did show I found myself regretting showing.

This woman was about my parents' age, I assume. Had a totally condescending demeanor and during one ride made some wiseass comment about my "plastic" bike. I had no idea what she was talking about and expressed confusion. Her reply was "oh, you know, your bike's carbon." It wasn't. I told her it was aluminum...then she backpedaled and said "well, I have a carbon bike, too." :confused::rolleyes:

I've yet to see this woman this Summer, but another one...perhaps even MORE patronizing, has taken her place. Same demographic.

Seriously...WTF is with these older, belittling women? Yes, I am a relative noobie cyclist, but I can hold my own against a lot of people who have been riding for all of their adult lives. In my first full year on a bike I cranked-out 3500 miles, in addition to running 1000. This year I am hoping to log at least 500 more than that and run probably in the 800 mile neighborhood.

I avoid a lot of organized rides with men, because I don't want to deal with patronizing attitudes. So it really infuriates me to have to deal with this crap from other women. If they are so much better than the rest of us I wish they'd go ride with the boys. Heck, my hubby stopped doing a shop ride not far from his work after one of the women there continuously barked orders. And my hubby is FAR from a noob. He's a USAC certified coach, for cripes-sake. He's since found out that he's not the only one who stopped doing this ride because of this woman.

Organized rides are supposed to be fun. It would be one thing if these were "A-group" rides, but they aren't. We're pulling paces that would be B-C group at most rides with multiple groups. Riders looking down their noses at other riders or being downright rude really ruins the fun aspect. If it's not fun, why bother? I'm starting to wish we lived closer to our "L"BS (an hour away). That sort of nonsense isn't tolerated and they have VERY popular rides pretty much every day. Their Tues. night ride was ranked in the top 50 organized rides by Bicycling Magazine.

/rant

Are most of the women in this ride annoying, or just a few?

If it's just a few, and the rides are otherwise pleasant, I would just avoid them. If they say something, give a one-word answer that discourages further conversation, like "okay" or "wow" (if it's really rude). Then just move away from them.

Most of them are really awesome...but, boy, it only takes one bad apple, yaknow. I hate feeling like she's going to call me out at any moment for some unknown faux pas, even where I'm not in any way at fault. I had a teacher like this in 5th and 6th grade and it's bringing up some bad flashbacks. I'm 38...I shouldn't have to feel like I'm under a cranky teacher's scrutiny, anymore. And I can't help but feel like this woman is just waiting for me to screw up, which totally kills my confidence and is precisely the sort of thing that will cause me to do something boneheaded...because that is how I react to feeling like I'm being put on the spot. And it's hard to avoid one negative person like this, since our rides rarely have more than 10 people.

If she shows up at a ride, try the "mind over matter" approach ...just say to yourself "I don't mind her comments because in the overall scheme of things, she doesn't matter". Condescending/passive aggressive people are best ignored (Another payoff to ignoring them - it pisses them off).

My female training group doesn't have anyone like the older female you described, though perhaps I fit the age, being 57.

I don't get why others have to make comments, don't like it when it is directed at me by totally strange cyclists either. I personally don't examine other cyclist's bikes, other than to put in a mental category of road bike, hybrid, comfort bike, mountain bike, etc., and maybe note the color. It is an individual choice as to the bike, clothing, etc., and so there is nothing for me to observe and thus nothing to comment on.

I can say that for young fit females, it doesn't matter what type of bike they ride, because most of them can zip by me on the hills like I am not moving at all, have incredible endurance and are really strong for speed. When they are able to upgrade to a road bike with clipless pedals, even at the entry level, from a mountain bike or hybrid, just like that they are completing steep category climbs, metrics and full centuries. I've observed it at least 3 times this year alone between my two training groups. I am cheering for these ladies, not being jealous, because they all found a sport that gives them a passion and I am excited that biking will be a part of their futures.

my favorite response to b****** like this is to look at them and ask sincerely " why in the world would you say something like that to anyone?" and then ignore them from then on out.

an a hole is an ahole no matter what the gender or situation is. They don't deserve your time or attention.

marni

I love, love, love my female friends (I'm not really a guy's girl anyway) and am involved in a few hobbies that are made of mostly women, as well as nursing school which equals MUCHO estrogen. I don't even know if it's girls or it's just groups of people who are "competing," but there's always one blowhole in every group that can't allow people to just have fun without taking a jab. My favorite way to cope is just to blow them off and remember that...well, they can suck it. Just remember that there are usually two reasons people do crap like that: they are either kind of bitter and can't resist a jab or they're completely clueless and think they're just making conversation. Either way, don't let some sucker rain on your parade!

She's messed in the head... don't let her mess with yours. Easier said than done I know.

It sucks you hafta deal with this. Makes you wonder what other people think about her as well? Who did she act this way before you showed up to the group?

The others prolly know she's nuttier than a fruit cake as well. I know one of these ladies as well. I had be-friended part of the group before I encountered her. Which helped.

I just decided to kill her with kindness and be-friend her. Keep your friends close, keep your enemies even closer they say.

The trying to ignore her the best you can as mentioned is another end of the spectrum.

Sure it's not you... she's prolly been this way in other situations as well. Maybe her whole life. Perhaps even oblivious. Eekke.

Hoping for good luck for you!:cool:

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Originally Posted by marni

look at them and ask sincerely " why in the world would you say something like that to anyone?"

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This. Or "Does doing that make people like you in some circles?" with raised eyebrows. Or "How patronizing!" and laugh. Or "ExCUSE me??" with that voice. You know the one I mean; everyone's heard it, and remembered it forever more.

I'd call her on the behavior. Seriously and curiously. Make her think about what she's saying and how it comes across.

Or laugh. Probably laugh, because I'm mean. :D

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Originally Posted by owlice

Or laugh. Probably laugh, because I'm mean. :D

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I kind of did laugh...not so much at her, but at the guy flying by us in the pen*s extender. The whole line of us were making fun of him. He came out of nowhere and was definitely flying along way above the speed limit (this is a residential lakeshore road, not a generally busy route for people actually getting anywhere of importance). I hope it took the wind out of her sails, a bit.

We had a guy like this in our little group. He always knew more than everyone else and in his mind was always right, you were an idiot to disagree with him because of course, you lacked his intelligence to begin!

I'd finally had it a few years ago, I was riding hubby's mountain bike yet because I hadn't found a bike I liked and honestly, it's hard for us to spend money. We are savers, so as long as I was unsure of what to get, it made sense to still ride the mtb.

One day he says (really loud) "the reason you don't have a bike is because you don't have any money!" and proceeds to snicker. I was speechless for a moment, who would ever say something like that? If it had been true, I can't imagine the sting it would have caused.

I had a reply. I am ashamed to say I used it. Around the same week, I had been helping a friend with her restaurant business and filling in as cook/ waitress. Small area, of course he was a customer. He was demanding, picky ('my organic tomato should be deep red all the way through') and would deliberately do things to make waiting tables difficult, and I was just helping a friend on my day off! I snapped "well, how can I make any money when folks like you only leave a 62cent tip?"

He turned bright red. I mean really really red. I felt like CRAP for saying it, for stooping to his level like that. I know it didn't make me look good, and heaven forbid it got back to my friend.

As it is, he moved away 18 months ago. "Good riddance!" according to another rider. He came by another riders place of business just before valentines day and she was too busy to talk to him. Apparently he took personal offense to it. We haven't heard a peep since. I'd venture to say your loudmouth woman is the same. Ignore her and she disappears.

All of these people have something wrong going on; believe me, I am much more aware of "mood lability" in the general public since I became a therapist. Before, I just thought these were rude or weird people. But the behavior fits a pattern, that is easily recognizable to mental health professionals. I'd hate to think that it's being attributed to "older" women, of which I am one. I would never comment on anyone's bike, or anything about their riding on a group ride, unless I thought I was in danger because of their poor riding skills. I might think it, but I wouldn't say it....
All of these examples have the same symptoms; irritability, unexplained anger and the need to put others down. I'd bet in most cases it's because someone has put them down in the past (or currently), or they are afraid they might not measure up to a new person, so they lash out, instead. Sadly, I do find women do a lot more of this, in social situations. It might be because women generally are predisposed to having issues with depression/poor self esteem.
I'd just stay away and not engage with the person. Although, Marni's comment might make someone "snap out of it."

Crankin: That was very interesting.

Zoom-zoom: My two cents... We can never control how other people 'operate'. We can only control how we react to them. Some people are impervious to hints, so a witty response or ignoring them may not ever make a dent in their behavior. And you may keep getting poisoned by it, which hurts you. So, I will venture to say that engaging is not entirely bad. Either find something you like about the person (there usually is something to be liked about anyone, "kill them with kindness" approach) or respond in a direct manner ("I feel that comment was patronizing. Please keep such comments to yourself"). The person may still push your buttons every now and then, but the key is for you to find a good spot, where the obnoxious behavior does not leave you seething, at least not for a long time.

I used to be in the position of power over a number of coworkers who were like me highly educated, ambitious and competitive. Of about 15 people there were two absolute jerks. Let's call them Joe and Stephanie. (It is fun to use their real names). I found myself frustrated by Stephanie's behavior more often than at the Joe's equally bad behavior. On reflection I decided that I had a tendency to have higher expectations of women then of men. Women are my team after all!

zoom-zoom, I used to be a coxswain (basically small person steering boat/barking orders in crew) and I had this EXACT problem with someone in my boat. At the time I was 14 years old and the man barking orders at me was at least 60 or so. Actually, my father was in the boat too. The man would belittle my steering/skills (despite the fact that my steering took my girls boat to #2 nationally ranked) and I was constantly recognized in races as a skilled coxswain.

Now, keep in mind I was a teenager and at that point it's difficult to stand up to someone much older than you... I felt like an elementary school student being yelled at in class.

Finally I screamed at him: "enough. you do your job, I do mine." as we were racing. Found out later that another in the boat pulled him aside too to tell him that he was out of line. I was grateful that my dad never came to my rescue because it would have made me seem like a scared child. After that he shut up.

The funny thing is that he'd yell at me about steering but he was rowing so technically wrong (digging really, really deep) that he was throwing off the keel of the entire boat and actually screwing us up. Irony!!

Sorry for the long story, just wanted to tell you that I know exactly how you feel and it totally sucks. It's hard to stand up for yourself in this kind of situation.

zoom zoom i was a little confused about your story about making fun of a guy on a bike??? and everyone was laughing about it.

i have been the noob on the ride and have gotten a few acrid comments from more experienced riders (not necessarily older than me, i'm 59) but i have also received a wealth of knowledge from people, not always given in a nice way. I agree the comment about the plastic bike was dumb, but i've learned a lot of basic bike etiquette from people who were a little crabby (hey, i screwed up) and even headplant material from critical b!tchy people. "did you know the tongue of your shoe isn't supposed to be on the top?" my DH said "ignore them" but hey, I learned something there.
don't let them bug you. Take the wisdom and ignore the poor social skills!

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

zoom zoom i was a little confused about your story about making fun of a guy on a bike??? and everyone was laughing about it.

i have been the noob on the ride and have gotten a few acrid comments from more experienced riders (not necessarily older than me, i'm 59) but i have also received a wealth of knowledge from people, not always given in a nice way. I agree the comment about the plastic bike was dumb, but i've learned a lot of basic bike etiquette from people who were a little crabby (hey, i screwed up) and even headplant material from critical b!tchy people. "did you know the tongue of your shoe isn't supposed to be on the top?" my DH said "ignore them" but hey, I learned something there.
don't let them bug you. Take the wisdom and ignore the poor social skills!

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Nicely said, Bici. It's not always easy to do but phrasing it that way helps!

I am a bit of a loner, and I always wish I had a t-shirt on that says "I did not give you permission to talk to me!" I pulled up alongside a woman at a recent century ride and was asking her where she got a pair of biking shorts that I liked and a guy in one of those pacelines went around me saying that I shouldn't ride in the middle of the road. Well, I just ignored him but I'm actually surprised I didn't tell him to %#!@ off! Those paceline people were buzzing everyone without announcing themselves, and they certainly were not riding single file!

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

zoom zoom i was a little confused about your story about making fun of a guy on a bike??? and everyone was laughing about it.

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He wasn't on a bike...he was driving a massive (a Suburban or similar size), loud, gas guzzling SUV. I shared the story in this thread.

zoom zoom,
I sympathize. Once someone gets under my skin, I have trouble letting it go. I have a co-worker who drives me SO crazy, that even on his good days, he asks me what's wrong.

I'm not good at confrontations, but if I wanted to stay in the group, I'd probably say something off-handed like, "I won't critique your ride, if you don't critique mine (insert smile)." Leave her thinking. Is everyone perfect all the time?

I'm not saying this person isn't like that ... the world is full of them unfortunately. But is it possible you misinterpreted "plastic bike?" I know people who just refer to the carbon bikes in their stable as plastic, kind of in a cutesy way.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

I'm not saying this person isn't like that ... the world is full of them unfortunately. But is it possible you misinterpreted "plastic bike?" I know people who just refer to the carbon bikes in their stable as plastic, kind of in a cutesy way.

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Perhaps...but the way she said it definitely had the air of "oh, you're one of those noobs who goes out and gets carbon right away, before you've 'earned' it." Given our rough chipsealed roads I'll recommend carbon to anyone with the budget--regardless of experience. New riders are more likely to want to ride more on a bike that doesn't vibrate them to death. :p

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Originally Posted by TrekTheKaty

zoom zoom,
I'm not good at confrontations, but if I wanted to stay in the group, I'd probably say something off-handed like, "I won't critique your ride, if you don't critique mine (insert smile)." Leave her thinking. Is everyone perfect all the time?

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Great advice there (although I have to confess that I struggle to be civil to people like the woman you have described).

In the spirit of giving advice that I'd struggle to take myself, ask yourself the three question - will this matter in three minutes, three hours, three days?

And walk away from her shaking your head slightly for effect.

Having been in numerous situations such as this (outside the cycling arena), I have found that the best way to deal with these people is to pretend they aren't even there. Those kind of comments don't even deserve an response nor even an acknowledgment! You are there to ride! I assume you are also in search of friendship, so gravitate towards those who are there to ride, not form a pecking order. If such people don't exist in your group, maybe it's time to find some who DO want to ride and form your own group! :cool:

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Originally Posted by KatzPajamas

I assume you are also in search of friendship, so gravitate towards those who are there to ride, not form a pecking order. If such people don't exist in your group, maybe it's time to find some who DO want to ride and form your own group! :cool:

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Funny you mention that. Just this past ride there was also a new rider who I assume is about my age and very friendly. We immediately were having fun chatting with one another. I hope she keeps coming to the rides.

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

Funny you mention that. Just this past ride there was also a new rider who I assume is about my age and very friendly. We immediately were having fun chatting with one another. I hope she keeps coming to the rides.

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My guess is that since you made her feel welcome in the group, she will ride with the group as often as she can.

I have been very fortunate this summer to find three different riding groups that are very compatible, even thought skill levels within each group are somewhat varied. The groups have pushed me a little, and encouraged me a lot, and I have learned so much from them.

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

Funny you mention that. Just this past ride there was also a new rider who I assume is about my age and very friendly. We immediately were having fun chatting with one another. I hope she keeps coming to the rides.

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If I remember correctly, zoom-zoom, you gave alot of kind words and encouragement and sound advice last spring, as I purchased my bike and struggled with the many issues that this older lady newbie ran into. This new friend you have found is very lucky to have found you to ride with! Sounds like you already have a head start on changing the tone of this group. Happy trails! :cool:

Don't let anyone ruin your ride. I ride by myself most of the year and now have joined a weekly womens ride. There are some people that suck and do and say stupid things but that's life. I mostly stay away from those people and ride by the ones I like.The one time I had a real concern I spoke to the ride leader about it(a safety issue). Have fun and remember these people can be jackwagons but how you react is your choice.

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Originally Posted by grey

We had a guy like this in our little group. He always knew more than everyone else and in his mind was always right, you were an idiot to disagree with him because of course, you lacked his intelligence to begin!

I'd finally had it a few years ago, I was riding hubby's mountain bike yet because I hadn't found a bike I liked and honestly, it's hard for us to spend money. We are savers, so as long as I was unsure of what to get, it made sense to still ride the mtb.

One day he says (really loud) "the reason you don't have a bike is because you don't have any money!" and proceeds to snicker. I was speechless for a moment, who would ever say something like that? If it had been true, I can't imagine the sting it would have caused.

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People who make comments about money get under my skin. I have a friend who has a BFF who throws money around like it's confetti. The BFF's husband is the same way, although I think for him it's more of a status thing. He wants to look like he's got it all. Like you, I'm a saver, and I made a conscious decision a couple of years ago to walk away from a career I hated to go into one that is much less lucrative. I made many sacrifices to do this, but rarely comment on it because a lot of things I gave up were just extras that I don't need or miss. Anyway, a group of us were on a girl's weekend and one night at a bar, I didn't feel like drinking. If I drink past a certain point, it just keeps me awake at night and I hadn't slept the previous two nights. A week later this girl verbally attacked me about how if I couldn't afford to drink I shouldn't have come on the weekend at all, and it was awkward for her that I wasn't drinking that night.

Like you, my reasons for my choices had nothing to do with money, and she was way, WAY out of line for making such a classless and nasty comment. This was over a year ago, and I never did figure out what she was really upset about.

There are people who just don't think before they speak. I think instead of feeling sorry for them, we should feel badly for them.

Funny addition to my story. So DH and I were talking about this woman today and he thinks he may know who she is...and the plot thickens. If it's the same woman he's thinking she is, apparently she worked for a brief time at our LBS and it wasn't a good fit. She left saying that the owner (a friend of ours) was hard to work with/for.

Uh...that's kind of funny, since this guy is one of the most accommodating and fun people I know. He can be stubborn, but most of his employees have been with him for a LONG time and he'd go to the ends of the Earth to help a friend.

My DH vaguely recalls interacting with this woman and it not being a particularly positive experience.

local "pithy " sign at the Cinco car care christian community center and 24 hour dogwash(yes this is a real place and yes it is a repair garage which doubles as a community center and has a dog washing facility. What can I say? this is Texas as in it's a whole nother world out here.)

"the thing most often opened by mistake is the mouth."

or as MIL used to say " engage brain before opening mouth."

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Originally Posted by marni

local "pithy " sign at the Cinco car care christian community center and 24 hour dogwash(yes this is a real place and yes it is a repair garage which doubles as a community center and has a dog washing facility. What can I say? this is Texas as in it's a whole nother world out here.)

"the thing most often opened by mistake is the mouth."

or as MIL used to say " engage brain before opening mouth."

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Yep.

And your Texan businesses crack me up. Here in MI a popular combo is laundromat + tanning salon! :p