Tire changing/Wheel removal

A year ago I practiced changing a tire on my Trek - that was quite an ordeal. So much of an ordeal that it has taken me until today to practice the same thing on my LHT - a far easier experience :cool: :D

The problem was that I wanted to practice on my rear tire, but I couldn't get the wheel off the bike :eek: :( :o

I released the rear brake, the quick release, and the black "nut". Before I did any of this I shifted the rear cassette down to the smallest gear and made certain the chain was on the middle ring - and no matter how much I played with the quick release I could NOT get the wheel off the bike!!! I DID move the rear derailleur out of the way while trying to remove the wheel. I wound up practicing on the front tire.

Any ideas on what might have been the problem? The wheel didn't even feel loose, and I almost unscrewed the black thing in the quick release off! And now I can't get my rear brakes to line up which leads me to believe that the wheel did shift and isn't in straight any more - though it looks fine. I am going to set it aside for tonight and revisit this tomorrow...

Did you let the air out of the tire? A lot of rear triangles don't have enough clearance to get the wheel out when the tire is pressurized.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Did you let the air out of the tire? A lot of rear triangles don't have enough clearance to get the wheel out when the tire is pressurized.

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Really? I didn't know this & didn't think about it, thanks. I just wanted some practice on taking the rear wheel on and off. I've seen it done often enough, but didn't want my first time to be on the side of the road with a flat...

Sometimes you have to sharply strike the wheel to get it to come out of the dropouts. Putting the wheel back on will take some paying attention to aligning it so that it is centered. Keep at it. You'll get there. And GOOD FOR YOU for learning how to do change flats!

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Originally Posted by tulip

Sometimes you have to sharply strike the wheel to get it to come out of the dropouts. Putting the wheel back on will take some paying attention to aligning it so that it is centered. Keep at it. You'll get there. And GOOD FOR YOU for learning how to do change flats!

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I will work more with this tonight or tomorrow. The guys at my LBS today explained that this isn't an uncommon problem for the rear wheel - and my fitter told me that most flat tires are on the rear :eek:

I have yet to have a flat tire, but given my general preferred style of riding when it happens I will be 30 miles from my apartment or car, no cell phone reception or no one that I can call, and it will be raining. I figure that I need to practice NOW :D :cool:

I am very pleased at how easy a process it actually was to change my tube last night - the tires on my LHT are much easier to work with than the tires that were on my Trek, for sure. Now I just need to practice getting that rear wheel on and off - though I suspect that will be easier on the custom bike as it will be much lighter.

I always tell my customers to practice at home instead of learning this, like you say, 30 miles from home, in the rain.

I find it much easier to remove the rear tire if I have the bike upside down. It's a bad habit that I always do it this way, but it's easier than laying the bike down with the crank on the ground. Less balancing and I can use one hand on the rear derailleur and the other to lift the wheel out.

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Originally Posted by Pedal Wench

I always tell my customers to practice at home instead of learning this, like you say, 30 miles from home, in the rain.

I find it much easier to remove the rear tire if I have the bike upside down. It's a bad habit that I always do it this way, but it's easier than laying the bike down with the crank on the ground. Less balancing and I can use one hand on the rear derailleur and the other to lift the wheel out.

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I had it upside down, and did as you suggest here - one hand on RD and other trying to lift the wheel out but it wouldn't budge. I also think there might be some grit in the rear brake from my ride last weekend so I do need to get that wheel off so I can investigate better.

Would it help to put my foot on the saddle or can I harm the rails that way? Selle Italia saddle if it matters - I do not know what the rails are made of.

Hmmm. as long as you don't stomp on the saddle, I'm pretty sure the rails will take your weight just fine. But I'm surprised you're needing that much force. Unless there's corrosion or rust or something in between a short yank should loosen most wheels (well, most wheels you just lift out, it's just the chain and derailleur gizmos that add sideways drag). I know you said you've loosened the QR, but it sounds to me like it's keeping the wheel snug. Just check once more, that you're absolutely sure it's open and loose, the same way as on the front wheel. Loosen/open the brakes (you'll see the brake pads moving away from the rim to give it clearance). Let air out of the tire and squeeze the tire with your fingers (you should see that the rim and tire will then easily be able to pass the brake pads).

Have the chain on the smallest cog, and try pulling the derailleur back and forth with your hand (a bit greasy), see if you can actually pull the chain off the cog. The drag from the chain wrapped around the cog should be the only thing keeping the wheel a little "stuck". Give the wheel a little wiggle back and forth while you're doing this, and you should feel that it just sits loosely in the dropouts and can be lifted out once you maneuver the chain off the last cog.

The problem with removing rear wheels is sort of that are a lot of small sticking points that need a little wiggling almost at the same time, but there shouldn't be any real force involved.

Pardon the sermon ;)

I have fenders on my bike, I had thought about trying to do this without turning the bike upside down so I could hit the wheel to help it come out as my LBS suggested...but forgot about the fender...

Once the beer gets out of my system I am going to try it later this evening. Not that I had too much beer or anything :rolleyes:

What seems to be the place it's getting hung up? The brakes or the hub?

Veronica

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Originally Posted by Veronica

What seems to be the place it's getting hung up? The brakes or the hub?

Veronica

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The hub, LBS told me this isn't unusual and it can be difficult to remove... They suggested hitting the wheel, but of course the fender makes that rather difficult. I also had to really work with the rear brake tension to be able to loosen the rear brake (caliper).

Woot! I DID it :) I got the rear wheel off, took it out completely and put it back in :D

I know this is a very small thing, but it feels pretty good to me considering I couldn't do it yesterday. I just want to be comfortable enough with all of this in case I should have to do it someday on the side of a country road.

Excellent! Now do it 10 more times.

Personally I really don't advocate turning the bike upside down. Even nowadays when modern cable routing means the housings won't get bent or broken, it's still a lot of hassle, scuffage and extra dirt - and strength, too, if it's a heavier bike - for no real advantage.

Gravity is a big help when you're getting the wheel back in and aligned. You may as well learn to work with it when you're getting the wheel out, too. You don't have to have the rear wheel off the ground for it to come out of the dropouts or the rear triangle. And if you find you need to give it a little nudge while you pull the stays apart, as you did today, you can use your foot.

Anyway, great job getting it done. As Tulip said, each time you do it you can refine your technique.

I was taught to do it once by a Trek representative making the rounds at the bike shop. She released the rear brake, loosened the quick release, put one arm over the frame and gripped the frame, the right hand on the tire, and lifted the bike up and pressed down with the right hand. Comes out no problem every time.

Indigo, I'm not picturing that at all! Which way are you facing, is the top tube under your right armpit, where's your left hand????

This bike is so heavy that with my arthritic hands, I simply can't hold it up and do all of that at the same time (moving the RD and so forth).

Now I can't seem to get the brake cable back in place, suspect the tire isn't quite aligned properly...

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Personally I really don't advocate turning the bike upside down. Even nowadays when modern cable routing means the housings won't get bent or broken, it's still a lot of hassle, scuffage and extra dirt - and strength, too, if it's a heavier bike - for no real advantage.

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+1

Computer, saddle, etc. all can get scuffed up this way.

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Originally Posted by maillotpois

+1

Computer, saddle, etc. all can get scuffed up this way.

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Not on the carpet or grass - and the computer doesn't touch the ground at all. It just works better for me - I simply cannot hold up this 35 pound bike and do what needs to be done with it. I CAN get the front wheel off without turning it over, but not the rear. It is very easy to turn over and back again.

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Originally Posted by Catrin

This bike is so heavy that with my arthritic hands, I simply can't hold it up and do all of that at the same time (moving the RD and so forth).

Now I can't seem to get the brake cable back in place, suspect the tire isn't quite aligned properly...

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You only need to hold the RD when you're putting the wheel back on, not when you're taking it off. And as you're finding, you pretty much need the help of gravity to have a hope getting the rear wheel on straight.

It takes a lot of strength to turn a heavy bike upside down! Much more than it takes to partially support it while you pull the wheel back and out.

I am trying this, without turning it over, and am not having any success :( :o

It is good I am practicing all of this at home where I am safe and dry - though I am going to be really mad at myself if I have to wind up taking the bike to my LBS when it opens tomorrow morning...

Everything's in place, just not lined up?

Fully inflate the tire.

Support the bike upright with a hand on the seatpost or the seatstays, whichever's more accessible. Very little strength required, gravity's holding the weight of everything, you're just giving it a hand against tipping over.

Grab the rim directly behind the dropouts and give it a gentle pull straight backward (while using your other hand to prevent the frame from moving back with it).

If your chainstays are symmetrical you can eyeball the alignment fairly closely at the tire, near the BB (but if they're asymmetrical, they're obviously no help).

That might help.

Ok, I've done it now :o

I finally got the rear wheel seated and the caliper brake closed...but apparently I played with the adjustment barrel for the rear brake rather more than I should have as the picture indicates.

Can I fix this myself, or is it an LBS job at this point? Leave it to me to mess up my brake cable...I hope I can fix this myself as I just made a huge payment on my Gunnar today...

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Originally Posted by Catrin

Ok, I've done it now :o

Can I fix this myself, or is it an LBS job at this point?

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It looks like the cable housing simply popped out of the braze-on bit on the frame. If you look closely at the little nib on the frame, you'll notice it has a narrow slot. That's so you can hook the cable into it without taking anything apart. Start by screwing the brake adjusters all the way in. (If you can,) using one hand, press the rear brake cantis together against the rim. at the same time, with the other hand, grab the cable housing, guide the cable through the aforementioned slot, and let the housing end seat into the little nib.

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Originally Posted by laura*

It looks like the cable housing simply popped out of the braze-on bit on the frame. If you look closely at the little nib on the frame, you'll notice it has a narrow slot. That's so you can hook the cable into it without taking anything apart...

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Oh, I see! I understand what happened now. I will try it - but if I can't quite get it at least I know they wouldn't charge me much at all to fix it.

I had a very difficult time to even get the rear brake to release - the front brake is far easier to release. Is this normal? I know my hands/fingers are weak - and even with all of the strength training I've done over the past 15 months have not been able to really change that due to the arthritis. My hands don't hurt unless I put weight on them, I just have little strength in them. My arm strength has greatly increased, but not my grip.

I did get it - but the only way to get it was to release the rear brake caliper...and now I can't get the rear brake cable back on $&*#. A friend has said I can drop by their house this afternoon while he and his wife are doing yard work and he will look at it.

If this does turn out to be a pure hand-grip issue then will have to find some way of dealing with this. I WAS able to get the tire back on the wheel with my hands only so they can't be THAT weak :o

I also have a tough time with the rear brake cable on my LHT. Closing up the front brake is easy. Not sure what it is about the rear brake that makes it such a pain.

I started inverting the bike for rear wheel removal after almost dropping the whole thing on multiple occasions. I figured that a scuff on the saddle or handlebar (both easily prevented with a saddle cover, jacket, plastic bag, etc.) was better than dropping the bike and getting stranded with a bent derailleur or broken rear fender. I also hated laying the bike down on its side while the rear wheel was off, because that exposed even more components to the sidewalk and usually resulted in a mis-aligned front fender. I'm curious: what do you non-inverters do with the bike while you fix the flat?

To invert the bike easily, I lean over the frame, grab the seat stay with my right hand, the front rack or fork with my left hand, and brace the frame a little with my body so it doesn't flip over too fast. I don't have much upper body strength, so it takes a little muscle for me, but it's easier and quicker than holding the frame with one hand and fiddling with the wheel, chain and derailleur with the other hand ever was. I find myself using many fewer four-letter words this way.

There's really only two times I'm holding the frame in one hand for a rear wheel change: doing the little alignment tweak I describe above, and actually removing the wheel from the rear triangle. Any other time I mostly have the stays in both hands and use gravity (the ground), knees, a foot, or fingers and thumbs for the rest of it. (Front is different - stem in one fist, wheel in the other, pops right out.)

I'm sure bikes that are balanced differently respond better to different techniques ... and lighter makes everything easier/requires less finesse.

Re: resting the bike - mostly I just lay it on its side. Remember that nothing gets scuffed or even dirty unless you're applying pressure, which doesn't happen when a bike is resting rather than being manipulated. The only thing on a bike that might not take its own weight sideways would be a handlebar mirror - in that case, just lay it on the derailleur side. Again, if you lay it down gently, no problem. You'd lay it on its side at a rest stop with both wheels on ... this is no different.

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Originally Posted by Catrin

Oh, I see! I understand what happened now. I will try it - but if I can't quite get it at least I know they wouldn't charge me much at all to fix it.

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If you bike shop is charging you to fix this you need to find another bike shop.

I have no problem turning my bike upside down for changing a tube. Always have, probably always will.

Catrin, you did it (mostly)! That is great. You can get a Third Hand tool from a bike shop or on line. It will hold the brake calipers together while you reattach the cable.

Practice more, it will get easier.

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Originally Posted by Catrin

I did get it - but the only way to get it was to release the rear brake caliper...and now I can't get the rear brake cable back on $&*#. A friend has said I can drop by their house this afternoon while he and his wife are doing yard work and he will look at it.

If this does turn out to be a pure hand-grip issue then will have to find some way of dealing with this. I WAS able to get the tire back on the wheel with my hands only so they can't be THAT weak :o

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I have this problem, too, with linear pull brakes. I wonder if there's a type of brake that's easier to release/reattach? If so, I would change just for that reason.

I can get the calipers against the wheel without a problem, I cannot get the cable to stretch quite far enough to go into the tab - I really had to loosen it a lot to get it to release in the first place...

I doubt my LBS would charge anything, but I am unsure they have mechanics on Sunday. I will run it by my friends house first and see what he & his wife thinks - if I have to drop it off at the LBS I will, but it would be a shame to have to leave it at the store for such a small thing.

I AM considering eventually converting to v-pull long-reach linear brakes on this bike if I like them on the Gunnar. This won't be any time soon, but I don't if that would help this particular kind of problem.

Yay on getting the wheel out and back in! I'm sure once you have the last bit sorted it will be a piece of cake in future (I haven't done this yet :o )

Everything is now sorted out :) My friend walked me through the entire rear-wheel-removal-replacement-brake-issue process again and I finally realized what I was doing incorrectly with the brake cable. I was, apparently, trying to "snap" it in/out of the tab rather than just lifting/moving it. I found it also helps to stand with one knee against one of the calipers to hold it against the rim.

I DID swing my bike by the LBS for a quick safety check considering how much work I did with the brake cable adjustment - really more for peace of mind than anything. It was fine, and no charge :)

I'm a newbie so fogive me! :rolleyes: Good stuff here - so far I've only seen a front-tire change demo. Good to know that I also need to be prepared for rear flats. Duh!!! :eek:

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Originally Posted by LiseB

I'm a newbie so fogive me! :rolleyes: Good stuff here - so far I've only seen a front-tire change demo. Good to know that I also need to be prepared for rear flats. Duh!!! :eek:

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My fitter tells me that most tires are on the rear - don't know how true that is...

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Originally Posted by Catrin

My fitter tells me that most tires are on the rear - don't know how true that is...

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It's true because most of your weight is on the rear wheel.