competitive SOs...(long)

I love him dearly, but if there's a bike involved...gah!

I will admit that he's gotten a lot better as a riding partner (he's stopped trying to coach me, but gives advise if asked and encouragement as necessary). I've been toying with the idea of buying a second road bike--a "Go. Fast." bike. This is at least 6 months, if not a year, away. There's a Cannondale I've been drooling over. Here's the thing: It's comparable to his Cannondale. I talked to him about it, and tried to steer me toward one of the cheaper versions. My preference for that particular bike is not set in stone. I may try it out at the LBS and hate it. Or I may fall in love with something else. Or finances may change. Who knows? I asked him why he'd recommend the cheaper bike (other than cost), and he really couldn't give me an answer.

I've also told him I've thought about going straight from platform pedals to clipless. I don't want to deal with two learning curves, and I think I'd get my foot caught in the straps of toe cages. He thinks I really should use the toe cages first.

It seems like anything related to upgrading--whether it's my riding, the pedals or the bike--should be done the way he did it, and later. He's only pushy about his way of doing things when it comes to bikes. He nudged me toward the Avail (it's the girly version of his first road bike). That's fine, because I knew diddly about bikes at the time, and the bike suits me pretty well. The pedals, I can understand. Safety and all that. I can't figure out why he feels the way he does about the Cannondale, though. Is he feeling threatened in some way by the fact that I'm looking at something on par with his bike? Is he thinking "she's getting herself into some kind of shape. She must be planning on leaving"? Or something I'm not thinking of?

I'd be grateful if anyone could offer some insight.

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Originally Posted by Owlie

I love him dearly, but if there's a bike involved...gah!

I will admit that he's gotten a lot better as a riding partner (he's stopped trying to coach me, but gives advise if asked and encouragement as necessary). ..............................................................................................................It seems like anything related to upgrading--whether it's my riding, the pedals or the bike--should be done the way he did it, and later. He's only pushy about his way of doing things when it comes to bikes. He nudged me toward the Avail (it's the girly version of his first road bike). That's fine, because I knew diddly about bikes at the time, and the bike suits me pretty well. The pedals, I can understand. Safety and all that. I can't figure out why he feels the way he does about the Cannondale, though. Is he feeling threatened in some way by the fact that I'm looking at something on par with his bike? Is he thinking "she's getting herself into some kind of shape. She must be planning on leaving"? Or something I'm not thinking of?

I'd be grateful if anyone could offer some insight.

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Maybe I have imperfect memory, but it seems this is the 2nd time you've mentioned about your bike-competitive SO?

Anyway, just focus on getting a quality bike that is not too off your budget and that fits you. His advice is only the advice of 1 person, not several experienced folks, including LBS. Take your time. Clear your head several times if you need to. In the end, you may need to do this bike hunt alone. It will be your bike, not a shared bike between him and you.

Ride some bikes before you lay down your money.

Don't bother with toe clips/cages. They are not as safe as clipless IMO. Besides where are you going to get a cage? and the cleats for the cage? Don't know if you can even get a such a thing...

Go with a clipless. Some are not that expensive and do a descent job. Time, Look, Speedplay...

Get the bike you want. you'll be happier and more content. And in the long run, it will be cheaper.

Is he an oldest sibling, by any chance? (I don't mean *your* oldest sibling of course :D, but the oldest of the children in his family).

My sister (there are two of us, she is the older one) is this way. I will like something different than what she likes, and she will be convinced that I just don't know what I'm about, and then later, when she discovers what I had liked, she's 100% all about it. At one point she decided to give me ski pants for my birthday (she was working in advertising at a ski resort and got big whatever you call it direct discounts from certain companies). She asked me to let her know if there was a certain pair I liked. I went to the North Face store in town and found a pair I really liked, and told her. She decided they weren't what I really wanted and got me the same pair she had (which were more expensive, she wasn't being cheap). Then a few months later we were in the store together and I tried on the pair I had liked and she wanted a pair.

Recently I was thinking about getting my chin length bob chopped off into a short cut. (For a long time she had short hair and recently grew it out into a chin length bob). I mentioned this in a conversation and before I had even finished saying it she was shaking her head like it would be a mistake. Of course, whatever she's doing at the moment is the right thing to do.

I used to take it personally, but it's really not personal at all. I used to think sometimes that she was being judgmental or competitive (in other circumstances related but slightly different to the ones I've described), but I realize now she wasn't, she's just used to being the "first" and having me follow, and has a hard time accepting other patterns.

As for toeclips -- why? What is his rationale? I went from a bike with toeclips that I never tightened down properly to clipless pedals, which I think is pretty analogous to what you'd like to do, and while there was definitely a steep learning curve for me, I doubt it would have been improved by an intermediate stage of tightening down my toe straps. I say you should go for it.

Get what you want to get and do what you want to do. It's your bike and your money. Been there--done that with cycling and with golf...........And don't ask for his opinion if you don't want it. I have already made up my mind on something and then asked his opinion before committing to it and regretted it. If it's the bike you want, get it and going clipless is much nicer than flat pedals.

I'd suggest talking to him about it one more time, and if he still can't or won't offer any insight into why he seems to be steering you away from what you really want, then I'd stop asking for his opinion about your bike(s) to the extent you can. I realize that may not be realistic when it comes to finances, but I'd otherwise just do want you want. If you need somebody else's advice, seek it out here and/or on the variety of other bike forums out there. Or ask for his opinion and accept it or reject it as you see fit. I'd agree that you shouldn't take it personally. There may be something driving him that has nothing to do with you, i.e., some insecurity or anxiety. I'd try to tune it out as best you can.

Good luck!

And for what it's worth, I'd skip the cages, too, if that's what you want to do. I went straight into clipless, and frankly, the learning curve isn't that bad. After a couple of rides with them, you'll get the hang of it. I actually think cages look harder to use.

um... I don't have too much to add other than, if you want to sort of sidle into clipless, my road bike (Bianchi Eros Donna - great steel frame bike) came with spd clipless - they are usually for Mtn Bikers. I switched to the Look system the next year and had to learn clipless all over again. It would have been easier to just learn one time. I fell a ton of times with the Look, and may not have done if I had just started with them (it's much harder to 'clip out' with the Looks than with the spd's). JMHO...

Shootingstar--Yes, I've mentioned him before. If he can give me a good reason why he doesn't think I should get that particular bike, fine. I'm not going to let him sway me unless he has a good reason. I just wish he wouldn't try, and why he's trying is bugging me more than the fact that he is.
Smilingcat--As for his attitude on pedals, I think part of it was that he was introduced to road cycling by someone he greatly respects, and that was the way he (and most of the cyclists he knew) was taught to do things. Anything else is a bit alien to him. I think he thinks that starting with toe clips/cages is safer. I disagree. He thinks I'm a little crazy for wanting to put SPD pedals on a road bike, but then again, he's one of those people who must have everything match. (He's the cycling bumblebee of earlier posts...)

Liza--actually, he's an only child!

Crazy for putting SPDs on a road bike? Why?

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Originally Posted by tulip

Crazy for putting SPDs on a road bike? Why?

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He's one of those guys who has to have EVERYTHING match--helmet, jersey, shorts, socks and so on, so clearly, a road bike must have road pedals, and to him, SPDs are not road pedals.:rolleyes: I told him I'd rather not walk like a duck if I need to get off the bike. He's since stopped trying to win that argument. :D

Go for it, clipless pedals and all. He'll get on board. I remember when Mrs. got her Madone, made my old one sort of dated and old, but it's an awesome bike and she deserves it!

Cut him some slack. He's just trying to do the manly thing of teaching what he knows best, the way he was taught it, which of course was the best way :D Especially if he felt that he "earned" his rise up to the really good gear by using semi-good stuff first.

I went through a phase of that when I had rock climbed a couple of years - long enough to have learned a lot of stuff and identify myself intensely as a rock climber, not long enough to realize there were other ways of doing it. I was pretty insufferable :D

Clipless is not rocket science. You'll be fine!

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Originally Posted by lph

Cut him some slack. He's just trying to do the manly thing of teaching what he knows best, the way he was taught it, which of course was the best way :D Especially if he felt that he "earned" his rise up to the really good gear by using semi-good stuff first.

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That's probably what it is. I think he'd prefer me to upgrade the heck out of my current bike and then buy a new one when I can't upgrade it anymore. If it weren't cheaper to buy a new bike than upgrade my bike to 105, I'd do that. (I did the math based on new parts, but still.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Owlie

He's one of those guys who has to have EVERYTHING match--helmet, jersey, shorts, socks and so on, so clearly, a road bike must have road pedals, and to him, SPDs are not road pedals.:rolleyes: I told him I'd rather not walk like a duck if I need to get off the bike. He's since stopped trying to win that argument. :D

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No offense, but I think the correct term is poseur...

Since when are SPDs not road pedals?

Wow, most of the roadies I know have SPD's !
You really need to ignore a lot of his advice - smile nicely and then do what you want to do!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tulip

No offense, but I think the correct term is poseur...

Since when are SPDs not road pedals?

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He's got Look pedals. To him, SPDs=mountain bike pedals. Don't ask me why.
I think his desire to have everything match has more to do with making the bike look good than looking like one of the pros. His bike is red, his helmet is red, his second-favorite jersey is red...you get the picture. Not that it's not aesthetically pleasing, because he looks pretty good in red. :o I just find it a bit excessive, although I appreciate a good-looking bike (and motor!) as much as the next person. It helps that he has a bike with an easy-to-match color. He does the matchy-matchy thing elsewhere too, but it's more pronounced on the bike. Someone did give him a hard time for having a Trek bag on a Cannondale, though. :confused:

He once had a yellow and black OCR3...and rode around in a Team Once (more yellow and black) jersey, helmet and socks. He looked like a giant bumblebee. I think the team kit look is silly unless you're actually part of that team, but that's just me.

Biciclista--He knows it's ultimately my choice, and that whether or not I follow his advice is irrelevant. I think he just has a bit of difficulty accepting the fact that I actually know something about cycling now, and if I don't know something, I have not-him resources for finding it out. One day, he'll get over it.

I went through a similar experience with my DH when I began cycling more seriously this summer and wanted a road bike. He didn't want me to get more than a Sora group, wanted to do all my bike maintenance himself (which the LBS had to undo), wanted to fit me on my bike himself (which the LBS also had to undo), etc.

I think the changes in self confidence we experience from exercise can sometimes hard for our partners to understand, or even be threatening to them. I think my husband had a view of me (inexperienced, clumsy, slow -- not in a mean way, as I did fall a lot in the past!) that didn't match what I was becoming (competent, maybe even fast!). That balance -- of him being the *bike smart* one, of my relying on him -- was part of the thread of our relationship. As I've learned more about biking, it's also made me a little sad to see that he doesn't know *everything* about biking, as I'd previously thought.

This happened concurrently with a lot of other personal changes. I began training with a wonderful group of women. I began putting on muscle, made lots of new close friends, and started feeling happier and more confident than I had in years. He was very supportive, but it was still a change, and I know he continues to figure out how he fits into the new me. I think clinging to his role as "bike expert" was an expression of that.

For now, I've accepted he's not going to be the biking buddy I had visions of him being. And that's ok. I nicely accept his advice when offered. But I take my bike to a LBS for service and fitting. I do my own research. And I have a very supportive training group who I share my biking thrills and anxieties with. Like everything else, this will work itself out. And in the meantime, I'll be happily waiting for him to catch up. :)

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Originally Posted by Owlie

I think the team kit look is silly unless you're actually part of that team, but that's just me.

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No it's not ;)

Jerseys what is okay and what is not...

Well gets bit touchy with that one.

I for one will wear an event jersey, PROVIDED, I had participated and completed. If I DNF'd it then nope, nada no way will I wear the jersey. Poseur isn't my thing.

As for team kit. :rolleyes: oh jeeze... If I'm not on the team, why would I want to be in some one elses team kit? Maybe if they paid me to advertise...

If you are connected with a team, maybe I'll cut you some slack.

Then again this is just me. The other thing I hate is someone who is all decked out to a T and can't handle a bike. oui... I know I'm being an elitists but if you are riding a TT bike, you better know how to handle one. Nothing worse IMHO.

getting off the soap box.

you missed the nuance.
read those two sentences as though they were a conversation.

I'm a little scared that Owlie's SO matches better than I do... I was just thinking about it and for the most part my bikes match themselves... most of them have red highlights. But then I only have blue helmets. My cycling shoes are blue, black & gold, or grey. My gloves are pink, red, purple, teal, or blue. My bike shorts are black with either green, orange, or red stitching/trim. My jerseys are various colors... My socks are a ton of colors. But I usually make no effort at all to try to coordinate any of the shorts with jerseys with socks with gloves with helmet with shoes.

As for SO's & competitiveness - mine feels the need to tell me everytime i upgrade my bike "You realize, it's the motor that counts and this is not going to make you faster" and questions why I actually need it. "OKay, so these cranks are stiffer... do you really think you were putting out enough power to flex your old cranks?" He still helps replace the part, and he gets excited when it comes... and he admits that my bikes are a lot more comfortable than his, and happily accepts handme downs - the saddles or handlebars that didn't work for me. But he does try to talk me into saving money. That being said - he'd never have put me on tiagra and was pretty insistent that I start out with clipless pedals and steered me towards frogs instead of what he uses because he knew I had knee issues.

He does mention every so often how a guy at work keeps telling him that you can't trust a woman that's losing weight, 'cause she's gonna dump you or cheat on you. 'cause apparently that guy's wife has done it to him about 6 times. And he does joke about whether or not I'm getting in shape so I can leave him.

But he's actually usually the one that upgrades my kayak, and tends to make sure I have a nicer one than his. And he's been quick to hand me his credit card if I find a really great deal on a bike on ebay. While telling me that I don't need it and that it won't make me faster. He of course had to eat those words 'cause the bike actually did make me faster. magically :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catriona

He does mention every so often how a guy at work keeps telling him that you can't trust a woman that's losing weight, 'cause she's gonna dump you or cheat on you. 'cause apparently that guy's wife has done it to him about 6 times. And he does joke about whether or not I'm getting in shape so I can leave him.

But he's actually usually the one that upgrades my kayak, and tends to make sure I have a nicer one than his. And he's been quick to hand me his credit card if I find a really great deal on a bike on ebay. While telling me that I don't need it and that it won't make me faster. He of course had to eat those words 'cause the bike actually did make me faster. magically :)

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Well, upgrading the kayak is good but that first part is kind of scary.

I think people find their identity from different mediums. It's "good" to have a protege but when that person might surpass you, then it's not so good? Dunno. I've been through those types of things before (on both sides, actually) and it is SO frustrating to try hard at something and introduce someone to what you do and to have them be better. It's also bad to be the one introduced to something and LOVE what it is and be better and have the other person resent you.

I'd say honesty is what's required. That and getting what it is you truly want. It's like cheap shoes. What's the point if you're only going to have to replace them in the very near future?

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Originally Posted by teigyr

Well, upgrading the kayak is good but that first part is kind of scary.

I think people find their identity from different mediums. It's "good" to have a protege but when that person might surpass you, then it's not so good? Dunno. I've been through those types of things before (on both sides, actually) and it is SO frustrating to try hard at something and introduce someone to what you do and to have them be better. It's also bad to be the one introduced to something and LOVE what it is and be better and have the other person resent you.

I'd say honesty is what's required. That and getting what it is you truly want. It's like cheap shoes. What's the point if you're only going to have to replace them in the very near future?

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Ha. I think on his part it's a joke, and I just remind him that I don't need to get in shape to leave him - I'm perfectly capable of doing it chubby. (I know, our relationship gives everyone warm fuzzies) I do feel bad for his poor friend at work, though.

The times that I'm faster than him on a bike - he just mentions how he's not actually trying and not actually riding regularly like I am... or mentions his leg issues - "ah... so you're faster than the crippled guy finally?" At which point, I just roll my eyes and laugh at him.

But in general, we just have different strengths on bikes - he's better on hills, he can start off fast and just pedal hard for a long time till he dies... I have more endurance for long rides, usually manage to keep my legs fresher, and if I take off on a sprint, he can't catch me (I've heard this has something to do with my wheels being more aerodynamic or better in some other way) So he pulls me at the beginning of rides when my legs are still warming up, and I pull him at the end of rides when he's blown out his legs.

Catriona, you are like me! I warm up slowly and my times are always negative split. And good for you for keeping it real. The poor co-worker though. That sounds like a, um, what's his name? Radio guy. Tom Leykis I think. He always thinks that womens motivations are to do with hosing over their menfolk. It's difficult to believe that men actually believe that though I guess there are women who believe what Cosmo tells them.

Now back to the original thread :)

OK, I'm been reading this thread on and off here, and I'm glad I waited to post until some of this other stuff came along...

Owlie... bottom line is that you are the one riding / using the stuff, do what makes you happy:cool:. To be blunt, having the b@lls to do that and break away from some of the almost cult like rituals of cycling shows a lot of strength... perhaps part of which some cycling guys I know in particular (maybe your SO included) wish they could do--without getting hazed by the 'club of political correct' peeps.

OK, now jme of some things to think about in your decisions on part of what your SO is advising you...

MTB spd pedals vs. traditional road pedals...

I had these to start with on my first road bike (came stock). Shimano spd w/multi-directional release cleats (easier to get outta than single release imo). They were easier to learn, but not good for the long haul. One reason I have a Morton's neuroma nerve tumor in the bottom of my foot is from using this pedal system...

The contact patch on a mtb pedal is small = puts more pressure dead center in the ball of the foot. In general in mtb, your feet are not in the pedals the length of time as they are in road cycling. The mtb shoes have treads to walk, and some with toe spikes for a reason... because it's anticipated that you will be off your bike part of the ride for various reasons, thus = the ball of your foot gets a break from that pressure. The nature of road cyling in general is that you are not taking your feet on and off the pedals that much = a lot of constant contact (particularly as you increase your distance).

With that, I sought out the widest (evenly distributes the pressure) platform road pedal I could find w/the least amount of release tension I felt comfortable getting out of (Look Keo Elle) PLUS the stiffest (not meant to flex for walking like mtb shoes) full carbon soled proper fitting shoe I could find (woman's Mavic Xena). Twas not cheap. But, the physical and financial pain (medical bills etc.) it cost me to figure out the source of part of my pain was not either. JMH(humble)O--FWIW:).

Team Kits...

Ha! Your SO sounds like my guy buddy. Which part of it was him sincerely helping to educate me in his own way he knew, and part was a bit of jealousy of gear.

I used to think I couldn't wear a kit because I didn't ride for the team, and omg what would people think (cuz my guy buddy told me so)... gheez, no more.

I own one. It's the Team Terry kit. New colors for 2009 matched my new road bike ride. Other than not riding for Terry, or one of their bikes--simply because the geometry did not work well for me, I happen to use or support everything advertised on the jersey (&my saddle is a Terry). So, that one I have. People don't like it... then, omg don't blind yourself at my hideousness, arrggghh look away lol:eek:;).

Just take in what he has to say... but remember it's your ride in the end. Good Luck!:)

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Originally Posted by tulip

No offense, but I think the correct term is poseur...

Since when are SPDs not road pedals?

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You're right.

I have MTB SPDs on all of my road bikes, including both Luna and my Seven.

For those that have not used road pedals (single sided, Shimano, Look, etc...) they are more comfortable for longer rides. The larger platform provides a wider more stable base. I know SPD's are easier to clip into, and the shoes are easier to walk in, but road pedals can help of you have foot problems like hot spots, or need a more stable platform.

I have SPDs on my road bike and it's plenty hard to walk in my road shoes. The pedals on my road bike are not the same as the ones on my mountain bike.

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Originally Posted by Mr. SR500

For those that have not used road pedals (single sided, Shimano, Look, etc...) they are more comfortable for longer rides. The larger platform provides a wider more stable base. I know SPD's are easier to clip into, and the shoes are easier to walk in, but road pedals can help of you have foot problems like hot spots, or need a more stable platform.

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Ditto this. I have road pedals because SPD's hurt my feet after about 35 miles or so. I've got lousy feet and the larger platform and slightly better float suited me well. If I'm riding for distance, I won't do it without the Look-type pedal.

FWIW - I do have SPD's on my commuter which is also a road bike. I say, fit the pedal to the rider and the type of riding...not to the bike!

I've been keeping a set of road shoes & pedals for just in case I ever decide to switch. I've been using speedplay frogs which have a lot of float and don't seem to irritate my feet.

But possibly I should try out the pedals... they're ultegra sl's or something that came with a bike i bought.

I bought a pair of road shoes, wore them once, slipped. Thought why would anyone wear shoes unsafe to wear? and never wore them again.

fyi: i won't wear high heeled shoes either.

Re team kits - in the end it comes down to what you like and not what others do.

I wouldn't personally wear a team kit from a team I didn't belong to - but I also wouldn't wear a baseball/basketball/football/soccer jersey with some big star's name on it either. Cyclists are only doing the same thing as other sports fans (well, except perhaps that they actually participate in their sport of choice, unlike most other sports fan folks who wear their "team kits" in the stands or on the couch....) - and if you aren't going to laugh at them, don't bug the cyclists....

otoh... if you show up to an actual race with a full on pro kit.... may as well tattoo newbie on your forehead (its actually against the USACycling rules to wear the kit of a team you don't ride for, but this is rarely if ever enforced, at least for beginners)

Put on some BMX pedals and watch his head explode ;)

...then add a bento box and ask how you can install a rack so you can add a trunk for all the essential things you MUST have when you ride! :D

Lol. don't forget to put on a kickstand.

and for some reason it seriously bugs the bf that I put bottle cages, seat bags with tools & spare innertubes, bento boxes, blinkie lights and pumps on my bike frame.

"why do you girls always add so much crap to your bike?"


It's not like he's gonna come rescue me when my bike breaks down. He'll be stuck at work or asleep or something stupid.