Boyfriend and Baby help needed ::kinda long::

So, my boyfriend and I are very serious and will probably be engaged within two years. We both want it but due to circumstances (me grad school, him his current job) it probably wont be able to happen until then which is fine. We both have agreed on the fact that we would rather better ourselves now and then be able to be together, rather than trying to do this while being newly weds and possibly giving up different opportunities (our current opportuniteis are in different cities which is why we do not live in the same city).

Well, last night we were talking and somehow babies and concerns came up. Then he made a statment that if he was working and we had a baby, that it would be better for us to get his full night's sleep than to stay up and help with the baby. I think that this is a very selfish way of thinking and only benefits him. I understand his point, but I don't think that he has thought out that women can't lounge around all day when they have had a baby.

I don't know if he is thinking this way because he doesn't have the baby knowledge to understand what is required or not. This concerns me greatly that I would basically end up raising the kids on my own.

Should I bring this up to him again? When? How? And any advice on particular things to say to make it an effective conversation???

Two words: Premarital Counseling.

Best wishes to you!

if you're going to nurse the baby, (breastfeed) I agree with him.
When my first son was born, my husband did get up at first part of the time to help with the baby.
Soon it became apparent that it was a waste of time.
#1 I woke up instantly whenever the baby cried. I then had to wake him up.
#2 after he went and got the baby, I would be reawakened to feed him. You can't breastfeed while asleep, not at first anyway.
I finally decided it was not worth it to wake HIM up every time the baby woke me up. And so yes, he did better at his job, which was putting food on the table.

and yes, premarital counseling sounds like a good idea for you guys if you are already arguing about unborn children.

I would ask him to clarify his position on the baby statement. If he is unwilling to help with a newborn, well... But if it is simply his way of saying that he will need his sleep to work to support his family... you see what I mean. That begs for further discussion.

ps fathers can have quality time with babies when they're not sleeping. My DH changed diapers, coddled, cuddled and played with my boys plenty. My children were not denied a relationship with their father because he didn't get up 2 times a night with them while they were infants. (and i'm not saying he NEVER got up, i just never expected him to)

At least you're on the same page both wanting a baby. When one wants one, and the other doesn't, that's a hard compromise.

I think it's unlikely either of you will get much sleep :)

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Originally Posted by redrhodie

I think it's unlikely either of you will get much sleep :)

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agreed, I agree that premartial counceling would be good... but it's not the time yet. I think sometimes I worry about this kind of stuff because I dont have an older sibling, and my mother is sick, so I can't ask her. I sometimes feel left out for the vultures for all of this new stage of life stuff because I don't have anyone who has done this that I feel comfortable asking.

I know that I am a worrier, but it's the planning engineering side of me that wants it all to be in a nice and neat line....

Thank you for any advice given....

JP

If your mother is not there for you you definitely need to find some girlfriends, ideally with children or who are going to have them the same time you do.
when a new mother has a new baby, it seems like there are constant unknowns. WHAT do i do? the baby is crying? Its so important to have someone you can call and cry on their shoulder. And Husband isn't the one to do that with.

I'd investigate beyond the norm of nursing and diaper changes. True, if you're nursing it may as well be you that's up doing the nursing which is generally followed by a diaper change, etc. However, if it comes down to a baby who is fussy and up a lot at night he needs to be ready and willing to take shifts walking around with the babe.
I'd also be looking at the huge subject of if you plan to be a stay home mom or are you also working outside of the home. Being a stay home mom is a lot of hard work on its own. If you add in your working outside of the home as well then her really will need to step up to the plate.
It's hard to grasp the reality of newborn care until it's there in your home, but it's constant and unpredictable and it's certainly not lounging around eating chocolate and watching tv. He will need to be brought into that enough to have a working understanding of your day and duties and respect them.
You also have a lot of time to prepare for this, might do good to talk to some other couples in your lives who have children to learn from them how their lives were changed and what types of routines and divisions of labor they have tried and what worked/didn't work.

Well, that is what we did - I got up at night and he tried to sleep.

DH had an office job and a commute, needed his wits such as he could maintain them, and I walked around in a fog. That is better than two people walking around in a fog which is the other main option.

The whole 50/50 can fly right out the window in the face of reality. So can all the well laid philosophies and plans.

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

ps fathers can have quality time with babies when they're not sleeping. My DH changed diapers, coddled, cuddled and played with my boys plenty. My children were not denied a relationship with their father because he didn't get up 2 times a night with them while they were infants. (and i'm not saying he NEVER got up, i just never expected him to)

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Ditto.

It is really impossible to imagine what life with a baby will be like until they are here and even then each of my three children had different patterns. It is important to look at how your boyfriend contributes in your relationship now. Does he help out with cooking, cleaning, etc. or does he see this as your work? I was usually the only one up at night since I was a stay at home mom back then, but he took over the minute he got in at night from grad school and helped with the bathing, bedtime routine, etc. Eventually, he left the research end of science and went into teaching to be able to spend more time with the family. The willingness to be a team player is vital to making a family work. :)

I suggest pre-marital counseling also, so you can explore other areas of gender roles in marriage as well. While raising kids is important, it is not the only function of marriage, in some marriages there are no kids. That doesn't mean there isn't love and bonding, or arguing, in those marriages.

My husband slept through our kids middle of the night stirrings. Since I was nursing I was still going to have to get up. On the other hand, as soon as he got off the train, he gave the kids supper so I could go out to run. He was also the main one for bedding down and bathing the kids. My son, is Mr. Diaper man, my DIL didn't change diapers until he went back to work at the end of the 2 week vacation he took when grandson was born. Now at 7 months, she nurses then hands the baby over to my son. The simple truth is that infants under about 12 months require about 36 hours of care a day. Some kind of plan has to be worked out.

You have to keep in mind that many new fathers are terrified, because for the first time in their lives (usually) they are the sole support of 2 or 3 other people. Even if Mom goes back to work in 3 months, that is still scary. Society tends to glorify mother and baby, but forget fathers, so they don't have clear role models. Even if their own father was the stay-at-home Dad, they can't remember what that was like in infancy.

Becoming a couple requires lots of adjustments, becoming parents requires adjusting the adjustments, so talk a lot and listen a lot.

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Originally Posted by newfsmith

The simple truth is that infants under about 12 months require about 36 hours of care a day. Some kind of plan has to be worked out.
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and then there's Octomom.... :eek::eek::eek::eek:

I don't think anyone is really prepared and perfectly planned for having a baby until maybe baby 4 or 5 (and even then you can expect some surprises). Until then, both parents are kind of winging it as best they can. And a baby will make it pretty clear that no one gets out of baby duty at any time of the day. The plans that you make for division of labor before having a baby generally get tossed out the window by day 2 and then you divide labor up by what works best for all of your for the baby you get (which is going to be different than the next baby you get, and they are all going to be different than the imaginary baby you planned for).

Which is not to say that premarital counselling isn't needed--I think everyone can benefit from that so they can have some sort of formal conversation about the big issues in marriage (one DH and I never thought about before premarital counselling was how to handle family holidays--whose traditions, whose house, etc. Five years of dating and we never talked about that!). All I'm saying is that when DH and I agreed beforehand that I didn't mind dealing with poopy diapers as long as he knew that I would always expect him to clean up vomit because I couldn't bear to, well, we did that not knowing that baby #1 would have reflux and would throw up all the time and baby #2 would be disabled and still not potty trained at age 8. So now I clean up vomit and he changes poopy diapers and we've all learned to deal.

Sarah

I think you should ask him to please keep an open mind about what is going to happen and how it is all going to work, and that children require a willing flexibility and enormous patience.

The other thing I want to say is, "Don't borrow trouble." There's no need to panic about an off-handed comment in a casual conversation about a topic that is all theory for you at this point. You need some more information before you can draw any conclusions about how it will be. :)

Karen

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Originally Posted by polly4711

agreed, I agree that premartial counceling would be good... but it's not the time yet. I think sometimes I worry about this kind of stuff because I dont have an older sibling, and my mother is sick, so I can't ask her. I sometimes feel left out for the vultures for all of this new stage of life stuff because I don't have anyone who has done this that I feel comfortable asking.

I know that I am a worrier, but it's the planning engineering side of me that wants it all to be in a nice and neat line....

Thank you for any advice given....

JP

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You've received some excellent advice from the experienced folks, polly.
Great that you are musing about the issues and giving yourself lots of time to think about, talk about when life right now and next few years will be in transition with unknown options that lie ahead.

And really it isn't just about who is going to look after baby day and night, but more on his personality to deal with unpredictable demands of children to look after their needs..and if you wish to return to a job (Part-time or full-time) and also stay in your career (engineering, right?), how your lives will mesh together also.

Sounds tough living in different cities to figure if home lifestyles and habits mesh, unless you've figured it out already. Right now are no chances for both of you to look after someone else's child together for a day here and there or for a weekend, as a 'trial' might help.

Most of all remember: you can't change his personality to become "better" candidate to be a supportive husband and daddy unless he wants to/his personality/life goals are predisposed to this.

As a comment, since I have no clue if he is also in engineering like yourself. If one of you do end up working out in the field or get into structural engineering work which involves construction /design/build projects, then that means most likely engineers who go into heavy construction engineering projects, work long hrs. (ie. overtime and stuff), higher stress to complete work on time/deal with unexpected situations (collapsing retaining walls, trenches, etc.) because major engineering project work is very project deadline demanding. If the engineers do not cooperate, it does mean financial penalties /construction claims for the project itself --thousands of dollars.

I did see alot of structural engineers where I worked (and majority were men) for both men and women really had to start very early....and end late..way past supper. There are some real pressures-- in all areas design side, estimating and claims/contract management and on inspection/testing side. I did wonder what the family lives of some guys were like since I knew some had wives and children ...and they moved with their families from overseas for these temporary assignments. And some of these wives were university-educated who had great careers/jobs prior to leaving their home country. I mean one of them was a family doctor, accredited in Malayasia. She and hubby have 3 children.

Hope you (or he) will be lucky enough to go into engineering consulting, engineering jobs in public sector, etc. where it would reduce messing up with personal/family life.

Thank you for all of your wonderful advice. It was so nice to come home to this after a long day of research. I will be sure to keep all of your advice in mind. (there are too many pieces that I want to address for me to individually go back through, but my words are a reflection of yours)

Both his brother and his sister have a child, and I'm sure that we will be able to 'babysit' one day, which would be very interesting. I do think that he is scared, but just nervous yet excited.

We have had time to be together in the same city to learn eachothers living habits, and they go along well. He always helps out with dishes and cooking and is very good about keeping up his own place, so I'm sure that he will be a help.


Yes, I am an engineer -- biomedical/mechanical field, he is not at all (but enjoys cars and mechanical stuff). I think that our jobs will work out, and the professor that I am working for is amazing and I feel as though he will set me up for a successful job where I would be able to be a mom and a wife and have a career. I know that it's quite a few years off, but still.


Thank you all!!!!