BREAD baking

Well rather than keep using the other thread whicha actually started about bread machines, I thought I'd start a new home made BREAD thread here in the nutrition/recipes forum. :)

I have a sourdough starter now in my fridge that I got from Kingarthurflour.com
The first sourdough bread was fine to eat but not as elastic and chewy as I'd like. Could it have been the 1/3 whole wheat flour that made it too dense?

I also have my basic boule dough recipe in the fridge from the Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes a Day book.

Up to now I've only used that dough to make plain white boules. Today I'm going to try their recipe for olive bread, and I'll fold in a few sun dried tomatoes and bits of onion and rosemary to see what happens. I post the results.

I also need to start a 'sponge' dough to keep in the fridge since the Artisan book has lots of recipes that use some sponge to jump start their bread.

So many things to try! :p

Yesterday I tried a cool old recipe for a baked crepe-pancake bowl for fruit, and it was a big hit with DH. Here are photos:
http://strumelia.blogspot.com/

would you share the recipe?
that sounds pretty good!

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

would you share the recipe?
that sounds pretty good!

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Which recipe?

the crepes with the funny name! they look like fun

Do you find the basic boule recipe a tad salty, Lisa?

It's seeming salty to me, and I even used less this time.

1 1/2 tablespoons is 1 tablespoon plus 1-1/2 teaspoons, right?

Karen

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

Do you find the basic boule recipe a tad salty, Lisa?

It's seeming salty to me, and I even used less this time.

1 1/2 tablespoons is 1 tablespoon plus 1-1/2 teaspoons, right?

Karen

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Yes, your measurement is right. Are you using coarse salt? Their measurements are intended for coarse salt.
I actually like fairly salty bread, so the boule recipe seems perfect to me. Try cutting back the salt a little more I guess? It will also taste saltier as dough, before baking- in case you are tasting it then.


Mimi, I'll scan the recipe for Dutch Baby and email it to you.

thanks!

Ok so I made two little loaves of olive bread this afternoon, using the 'Artisan' basic boule dough.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3240/...ec3f3fd23d.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3302/...bdd3315ef0.jpg

It's nice and moist and chewy, with a strong taste from the calamata olives.
I also rolled up some browned onions and sundried tomato bits in it, along with some minced fresh rosemary.
It's good! Won't last more than a day I bet.
Nice to know I can make it anytime I have some boule dough on hand in the fridge and some olives around. I do like the fact that you can keep your box of moist dough aging nicely for up to 2 weeks in the fridge and make the bread anytime during that period. It even tastes better if it's a few days ripened, sort of like how sourdough gets.

I started a box of semolina dough this time, and in a couple of days I'll try making my first Italian semolina bread. It sure smells good!

Oh my that looks good!

Yep, I use kosher salt. I'm going to cut it back more next time.

That olive bread looks yummy. :)

I'm trying the pita recipe next.

Karen

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

Yep, I use kosher salt. I'm going to cut it back more next time.

That olive bread looks yummy. :)

I'm trying the pita recipe next.

Karen

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Karen, which recipes from the book have you used so far?
Can you post pictures if stuff comes out nicely? :)

I want to make focaccia, too!

That olive bread looked good! I'm thinking that I would like to try making sourdough and would like to use whole wheat flour--does that starter from King Arthur work for whole wheat? I tried a while back to make my own starter and it was a flop, so maybe it would be better to just get one from somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Jolt

That olive bread looked good! I'm thinking that I would like to try making sourdough and would like to use whole wheat flour--does that starter from King Arthur work for whole wheat? I tried a while back to make my own starter and it was a flop, so maybe it would be better to just get one from somewhere.

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I made a mild sourdough bread last week using the KingArthur sourdough starter and their flours as well.
The Starter seems fine- but I used it before letting it get 'too' strong since my DH is not a big fan of strong sourdough bread. I myself like a strong sourdough bread.
I used 1/3 King Arthur 'white' whole wheat flour and 2/3 KA regular flour. I followed the recipe on the KA sourdough instructions.
I think the content of whole wheat flour makes it harder to get fluffy. elastic, or puffy bread. It tasted fine, if mild, but the inside did not get airy or light.
This is something I remember having problems with 20 years ago when making whole wheat breads.
I am planning to experiment with the Artisan Bread book's whole wheat type recipes later on to see if their breads come out just as nice with ww flour as they are with white flour. But first I want to try some other types from their book- like semolina bread, white sourdough bread, focaccia, etc.

I do notice that the Artisan basic white boule dough mix does get a nice flavor after a few days ion the fridge, a flavor that reminds me of sourdough bread. Their bread texture is just what I like, so I might just keep using that book to make various breads for a while. I think aging the dough in the fridge gives it a nicer flavor and texture- like the traditional 'sponge' or 'old dough starter' methods produce. The book also says that this helps produce a bread that stays fresh longer. Makes sense if it has a lot of enzymes in it.

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Originally Posted by BleeckerSt_Girl

Karen, which recipes from the book have you used so far?
Can you post pictures if stuff comes out nicely? :)

I want to make focaccia, too!

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I've been mixing it up with other breads not from the book, so I haven't tried any but the basic (I think). Oh wait, looking at my cell phone pictures, I see I made a French loaf.

You can see it at this link:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...9&id=600142943

I made a batch on Friday because we had friends for the weekend. But they had an inconvenience which resulted in them going home a day early. So, I baked up all the loaves and sent some home with them.

I'm not really good at shaping the loaves. After seeing yours, I worked harder at, and the ones I made this weekend looked better. :)

I just sliced the loaf I had left, drizzled some olive oil and vinegar dressing over the slices, then layered on some sundried tomatoes, ham, and mozzarella, and broiled them in the oven. They were delicioso!

Karen

Wow, Bleeker. Every time I try to make a fancy bread, it's a flop. I make 3 loaves of honey-whole wheat with flour I grind myself every week, and I sometimes make a white bread, or French bread... and that's as fancy as I get with yeast breads.

What is this book you are talking about? Does it help flop-artists like me?

Grey - yes, it's almost fool-proof...and I can attest to that (being a bread making fool myself)! It's this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Artisan-Bread-...538133&sr=8-1#

Besides the basic boule, I have made the whole wheat (that was supposed to be cooked in a pan - it didn't turn out), the herb bread variation on the boule, and the rosemary onion focaccia. Both of the last two were amazing!

this should be re-titled the Yummy Bread Thread!

I make sourdough from a home-made starter that's about 18 months old and lives in the fidge in an old mayo jar. I had authentic San Francisco Sourdough starter but found it a bit fragile (it died!) and not as sour as my starter. My loaves take about 36 hours to make, and I find the dough very stiff to work so only make one loaf at a time. The resulting bread isn't as good as SF sourdough but it is far better than anything I can buy around here. I use ~1/3 rye and 2/3 hard Canadian flour and bake the loaf in a cast iron pot.

That 'Artisan Loaf' book sounds great, I am still using 'Beard on Bread'. I want to try German Rye Bread, uses 100% rye and hardly rises. Sometimes I make challah and very oily Italian bread, and make my own pizza bases (very satisfying). Sometimes I use molasses instead of sugar to proof the yeast and a bit of walnut oil to add interest to the taste. Oh, and chopping up and adding fresh chilies to white bread works great.

*still waiting for her baking peel*

In the meantime - you know that dipping sauce you get for foccacia (or at least foccacia-like) bread in the snootier Italian restaurants?

How the heck do you make that stuff? I've never found any pre-made that was any good, and attempts to date to make it myself have been unsuccessful.

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Originally Posted by ZenSojourner

*still waiting for her baking peel*

In the meantime - you know that dipping sauce you get for foccacia (or at least foccacia-like) bread in the snootier Italian restaurants?

How the heck do you make that stuff? I've never found any pre-made that was any good, and attempts to date to make it myself have been unsuccessful.

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My DH just likes to use our salad dressing for that bread dipping.
Our favorite salad dressing:
make a cruet of dressing using the Good Seasons dry dressing mix from an envelope. But use extra virgin robust flavored olive oil, and some good balsamic vinegar. Then I also add a couple teaspoons of freeze-dried 'salad herbs' that I keep in the fridge after opening.

ZS: a tip about the peel....don't wash it by soaking it with water! People keep saying their wood peels are warping/cracking when washed, etc.
Oh but you are getting the non-wood peel, right?- then no problem.

What I do is: when I shape the loaf/loaves, I then let them 'rest' by putting a sheet of parchment on the peel and sprinkling the parchment with some corn meal- I lay the loaves on that. When time to bake, I just slide the loaves, parchment and all, right on to the hot baking stone and bake. (The parchment is good for about two baking sessions.) When done, it's easy to again slide the peel under the parchment and remove bread parchment and all. The bread seems to come right off the cornmealed parchment with no problem, and my peel actually never gets doughy or needs washing- my Stone stays clean too. If each parchment piece is used twice, the parchment roll will last a l-o-n-g time. :)

I used to make lots of many kinds of bread 20 years ago- sourdough, w.wheat, pastries, white loaf bread....making it the old fashioned way with a couple of risings. But I never got such yummy chewy/stretchy bread with a crisp crust as from the basic boule recipe in the Artisan Bread 5 Minutes book! It's exactly the way I love my bread to be and I never got it that way before.
One thing though- the basic (using 6 1/3 cups flour) really only makes 3 very modest sized loaves bread- not 4 as they claim. 4 to a batch comes out too tiny, and 2 to a batch are too large and don't rise as well. 3 seems just right! :p

Lisa - I wonder if our books are different versions? I could have sworn that my recipe says that the basic boule makes three loaves, not four. I'll have to look again when I get home tonight. If so, that would be REALLY odd, don't you think?

I don't wash my peel. I just wipe it clean and so far, with enough corn meal, it's fine. Same for the stone - which is actually a pizza stone and it also works great. I'd love to get a long square one so that I can make different shaped loaves, but so far the round has kept me busy enough. What benefit does the parchement serve? Do you still use cornmeal with it?

Oh, and ZenSojo - before I got my peel, I was just using a cookie sheet with no lip. Worked like a charm! I got the peel just because it's hard to make cookies when your cookie sheet always has a new loaf of bread sitting on it! :p

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Originally Posted by GLC1968

Lisa - I wonder if our books are different versions? I could have sworn that my recipe says that the basic boule makes three loaves, not four. I'll have to look again when I get home tonight. If so, that would be REALLY odd, don't you think?

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I think I remember reading on their BLOG that the recipe should read 3 instead of 4 loaves. I bought my book used- its from 2007. Maybe they updated it in a later printing?

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What benefit does the parchment serve? Do you still use cornmeal with it?

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Yes, I use cornmeal on the parchment, all on the peel. The parchment enables me to slide the two loaves of puffy bread right off the peel and onto the hot stone (paper and all) with minimal jostling of the loaves- helps to keep them from collapsing what little amount they have risen after the 'rest'. The bread bakes on the parchment, on the stone.
Very convenient, and I use each parchment piece twice before it gets brittle.
Doesn't stick to the bread either.

Yum that olive bread looks delish! Can you truly make bread in 5 minutes (not counting rising and baking)? I may have to purchase this book. I can just smell the fresh baked breads coming out of the oven.

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Originally Posted by CarefreeSpirit

Yum that olive bread looks delish! Can you truly make bread in 5 minutes (not counting rising and baking)? I may have to purchase this book. I can just smell the fresh baked breads coming out of the oven.

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Hi,
I think the 'five minutes' thing is a bit exaggerated. But once you make up a batch of the wet dough (enough for 3 loaves), you simply combine the water, yeast, salt and flour and stir it with a spoon right in a tupperware box or bowl (no kneading), leave it out to ripen/rise for 2 hours (it doubles, then starts to deflate), then just cover it and stick it as is in the fridge for up to about 12 days is fine. Each time you want to bake a loaf you pull off 1/3, (or 2/3 if you want to bake two loaves at once) shape/cloak it into a ball or baguette etc, (still no kneading) then let it rest like 40-50 minutes (preheat your oven sometime during that time), then bake for 30 minutes.
That's the basic recipe, but the book has all kinds of fun creative variations on the basic idea. The bread actually tastes and comes out better if it's been in the fridge for at least two days i found. :)

Today I had two different containers of dough in the fridge so I pulled off, shaped and baked two loaves side by side- a plain white chewy boule, and a golden semolina loaf topped with sesame seeds. the semolina loaf is gone already, the boule is for tomorrow. I did this pretty much while weeding and hoeing my tomato patch- just brought my kitchen timer with me to know when to do each step.

I finally got around to baking a a few loaves while Dh was home. (I've only had the book for a month or so.:rolleyes:) It really is fool-proof. I'm pretty baking-challenged and the loaves I baked turned out great. I don't have a baking stone (yet:D) so I placed a cookie sheet on top of my cast iron griddle and that worked out well to keep the temp stable enough to bake. I made a dip for my bread by heating up some EVOO on med. low and adding sliced garlic. Very tasty. I might trying adding some herbs next time, like rosemary, and a splash of balsamic vinegar after the oil cools. Of course, bread dipped in a good quality olive oil by itself it delicious. My "adopted" Italian grandfather taught me that.

sgtiger- that is so cool! I want a picture next time! :)

I have been enjoying making bread so much that I now keep like two different batches of dough 'ripening' in the fridge at any given time, plus some sourdough starter.

My loaves always seem to be rather small, but DH loves them anyway and they taste so good! So I just solve the issue by baking two at a time. :D

Today I pulled out a portion of my semolina dough, and also the basic white dough. I made a plain white boule (still the favorite) and a semolina loaf. I experimented with the semolina- it traditionally is topped with sesame seeds, but this time I used black sesame seeds and I envisioned that after slashing it and it puffing up a bit in the oven, that it might look like tiger stripes, especially since the semolina flour is rather golden colored. As you can see it did indeed turn out very tiger-looking! :) So I'm naming that variation my "tiger semolina".
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3341/...c7e16276e7.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3339/...5e72722c23.jpg

Though small, the two loaves were very lovely in both taste and texture.
I may experiment with giving them a shorter resting time before baking, to see if that increases the 'oven spring'.

Lovely. I'm okay with the smaller loafs, just enough for a couple-three people. Nothing like the fresh bread!

Karen

Today i baked four small loaves of bread. :p Tonight we are going to a little potluck dinner with friends, and I'll bring two loaves with me to share. That leaves another two for home eating.

I made one "tiger semolina" (with the black sesame seed stripes), two olive/sundriedtomato/onion loaves, and one plain white boule with sesame seeds on top, slashed in a sun pattern. I'll take one olive loaf and the semolina to the potluck tonight.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3540/...d2437a79e0.jpg

I really really like the bread from the Artisan Bread In Five Minutes a Day book. :D Not only is it the best tasting bread I've ever had, but it takes little time to prepare as well.

your bread loaves are works of art! they are truly lovely. Do you get the stripes just from cutting slits in the bread before it rises?

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

your bread loaves are works of art! they are truly lovely. Do you get the stripes just from cutting slits in the bread before it rises?

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Hey thanks, Mimi! :)

After the loaf is formed, it's allowed to 'rest' for 40 minutes and it puffs up part way. Then you either: dust with flour and slash, or paint with cornstarch wash and sprinkle with seeds and slash....then they go in the hot oven and will rise and expand a bit more while baking. (that's called 'oven spring') The slashes are then seen as bare spots with no flour dusting or seeds.
I want to do some onion garlic bread topped with poppy seeds soon too. :p

I turned a good friend on to this book and they tried the pita recipe and LOVED it.

Karen

I tried this technique today with sourdough bread, and it came out wonderfully! The truly PERFECT crust!
Here are some pix, but I described it in detail in my home blog, here:
http://strumelia.blogspot.com/2009/0...utch-oven.html
I'll definitely be making this again!! Mmmmmmm.....
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2446/...c3b64a59c7.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3385/...a7223c31fa.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3657/...80c086338e.jpg

Beautiful! You are truly the Bread Queen! I've been making my own bread for at least a month now-- haven't bought any. It's so easy and delicious. I might have to spring for that book so that I can expand my technique horizons a bit.

Too bad you can't put tastes on your blog!

That is just gorgeous, Lisa!

I'll try it soon.

Karen

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

That is just gorgeous, Lisa!

I'll try it soon.

Karen

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Thanks you guys!

The recipe I used is found here:
http://mysisterskitchen.wordpress.co...irs-sourdough/

Pass the butter and jam.

I even have some fresh blueberry jam to smear on those loaves BleekerSt. Sigh

After baking a few more varied types of round bread loaves in my cast iron Dutch oven pot, I see that the crust comes out by far the BEST this way, and without needing a steam pan or spraying the loaves either. Very simple! The crusts are coming out absolutely PERFECT- thin, crackly crisp, and golden.
Using a piece of parchment makes it easy to just lower the risen loaf gently into the hot pot, cover quickly, and bake, parchment and all.

I ordered a second Dutch oven of the same size as my ancient garage sale one (6 qts), so that I can bake my usual 2 loaves both at once in the oven. Both pots will fit side by side, and it will save 45 minutes of oven 'on' time and saves me additional running around when timing and tending two baking loaves in succession.

This afternoon I made a regular white boule with white sesame seed topping, and a parmesan cheese-laced boule with black sesame crust. The dough for those two loaves had been in the fridge for about a week already. (I think 10 days is the max I want to go on storing the dough {the book says 12 days is max}, and it definitely has better flavor and texture when stored at least 2 or 3 days)

I also mixed up a wet sticky sour dough batch today (enough for 2 loaves) which will sit overnight on the counter and get baked tomorrow afternoon. That'll be enough bread for the next 3 or 4 days.

I love the convenience of simply mixing up dough batches ahead of time and then refrigerating them until it's convenient to bake a loaf or two. This bread method really suits my lifestyle, as opposed to years ago when I had to spend a whole day baking bread from start to finish. The bread is 100 times superior, too! :)

I'm going to get a dutch oven! I bet Southern States carries them.

I found a source for local (relatively) flour. My local Kroger carries flour that is grown and milled in Virginia. It's about a dollar more than the regular Gold Label flour, but it's worth it to be 'cause it's local.

This bread is fantastic, just like Lisa says. It's so great to have the dough in the fridge ready to bake. I took a loaf to a small luncheon on Sunday and it was a huge hit.

It think I'm going to swing for the book. I've been using recipes from the NYT adapted from the book. It's time I get the book.

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Originally Posted by tulip

I'm going to get a dutch oven! I bet Southern States carries them....

...This bread is fantastic, just like Lisa says. It's so great to have the dough in the fridge ready to bake. I took a loaf to a small luncheon on Sunday and it was a huge hit.

It think I'm going to swing for the book. I've been using recipes from the NYT adapted from the book. It's time I get the book.

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I ordered my Dutch oven from here, I think someone right here on TE recommended them:
http://www.cajuncastiron.com/eshop/1...uctCode=10487A
Of course you have to anticipate that the postage is going to be relatively high for heavy cast iron items.

I also ordered a smaller saucepan with lid and handle that will be good for cooking/heating food and water on the hot coals inside our living room woodstove when the electricity is out. Last time I used a cheap aluminum saucepan but I was afraid the hot coals would start melting it! Besides, I didn't savor heating my tea water or soup in aluminum.

I got the 6 qt dutch oven which matches the older one I have- the two will fit side by side in my oven to bake two loaves. the 6 quart is pretty big, and these artisan loaves aren't exactly huge from my recipes.
If you don't already know, the 'camp style' Dutch ovens have a flatter lid with a lip sticking up all around the outside top to hold hot coals on top of the lid if you are baking on a campfire, thus heating/baking the food from both top and bottom. Obviously you don't need this feature in a kitchen oven, and it's better to have a traditional domed lid for bread baking, to give extra rising room for the loaf.

It's cool to not have to bother with the steam pan or spraying to get a crispy crust! But I do highly recommend using parchment to make it easy to lift and gently place the loaf into the pot without having it deflate and without burning your fingers. I don't know how else i could do it! The parchment gets brown and brittle after baking, and can only be used once. Don't worry about parchment corners sticking out from under the lid while baking.

I just had some parmesan-laced boule toast with black sesame seeds for breakfast....mmmmmm..... :D

We're going to the Buffalo National River this weekend, for canoeing, and I always bring my Dutch ovens for cooking on the coals. I'm going to make bread this time! :)

Karen

Seriously, if you are going to buy a cast iron Dutch oven, hit the flea markets. You will pay a good price as if it were new, but the quality in an old one will be much better. http://blackirondude.blogspot.com/20...cast-iron.html

I have a friend who has PhD in food history, and she turned me on to that blog. We've discussed this over and over, and boy does she have a gorgeous collection of cast iron!

Karen