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Wow! Bonus to you for knowing H1N1 has been around before! I learned that by reading the aforementioned Flu.Quote:
Originally Posted by KnottedYet
It's a good book, reads like a crime novel.
I can't take a flu shot due to an immune deficiency but I do get a pneumonia shot every year.
We have had sooooooo much flu education at work, and we all have to read flu updates every day, and we're all educating all our patients all the time. Not a bonus to me, unfortunately. Just part of what is hammered into our heads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen
I really want to read that book, Zen.
(oooh, one cool piece of trivia I learned recently: it appears that osteoporosis medications may kill off the H1N1 virus in vivo. that could be nifty if it turns out to be true.)
Sarah,
I hope your son is doing better and continues to recover.
***
I get the flu shot partly for myself. I can't afford to be off work for a couple weeks, as one of my colleagues was a couple years ago. I work with young adults, and I know their handwashing isn't quite what it might be. I'm in a relatively low risk group (middle-aged woman, healthy), and I've never had the flu.
I'll get the swine flu vaccine when the people at higher risk have had opportunities to get it and it becomes available to the wider community. As I understand it, the swine flu vaccine is made with the same process that's been used for seasonal vaccines for years now; it's a proven method, safe and pretty effective for most people. Too bad they didn't know and have it ready to go to put in the seasonal shot because it would be less of a hassle for all of us.
But the other reason I get the flu shot is because it contributes to herd immunity. If we can get 90% or so of the community covered, we can reduce the chances that folks with compromised immune systems or other problems catch bugs. That means a lot to me. I want to help keep Sarah's son and others just a little safer.
One last word about vaccines: small pox. Okay, that's two words, but really, we got rid of a disease that used to kill a lot of people.
We have a chance to get rid of polio if we can get everything together. My aunt had polio in the 50s, and it still causes her problems. I'm grateful to have had the polio vaccine as a kid; none of my schoolmates got polio that I remember. What a change that was from my parents' generation!
That would be awesome, since my father has bad asthma AND takes osteoporosis meds.Quote:
Originally Posted by KnottedYet
My dad was disabled from a childhood bout w/polio (feet were different sizes).
In my early 30s, I had to get a polio booster shot before I traveled overseas, among other shots.
I get the flu shot because they give it to us at work---convenient, free, etc. I decided not to get the H1N1, if they have any left for the rest of us (not pregnant, no little kids/babies in the house, etc.) I figure that by the time it's available, I'll likely have already been exposed to the virus.
This definitely is one of those personal choices, so everyone has to do what's right for them.
It essentially is a 'personal choice'. But if someone chooses not to be vaccinated then becomes ill and infects others exponentially what kind of choice is that?Quote:
Originally Posted by mickchick
Since I probably have H1N1 now, the question of getting the vaccine is moot.
Feel better, Malkin.
Karen
I struggle with this.. As a high risk person (severe asthma and taking multiple immunosuppressive drugs), I want everyone to get vaccinated. However, I also have the ability to be vaccinated, so long as it's not a live vaccine. So, I have some control over the situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen
Sfa, I feel for you. I really don't know how I'd feel if I were unable to get the vaccine and knew many would not get it because it doesn't affect them.
On the other hand, I support people's right to decide for themselves. I just wish more people would make the decision I like :p
Then those who got sick apparently chose not to get vaccinated as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen
As I said before, it's a personal choice. I respect that and try not to judge. Now what pisses me off is when someone who is sick comes into work and spreads it around. People where I work are TOLD to stay home if they have the flu. A lot of folks ignore this, however (everyone where I work has sick leave as a benefit, so it's not like they aren't paid if they are off).
Or they couldn't be vaccinated, for whatever reason. Like their own personal medical history, or that they are not in the group that can get the vaccine (me).Quote:
Then those who got sick apparently chose not to get vaccinated as well.
Karen
Yes, this bothers me too. Nothing is so important that you HAVE to come in to work coughing, sneezing, spreading germs. I don't get that!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by mickchick
I'm with Eden and Knott. I had the seasonal shot for the first time in my life about a month ago. And I have had the flu; to those who say they have a "flu" you shouldn't use the words so casually. Seven days in bed, 105 fever, and a recovery that took 5-8 weeks. I am sure i had pneumonia.
I am in a high risk category, with mild asthma and I cannot find a place to get the H1N1, especially since I need the single dose shot (I'm too old for the mist) with no preservative. At this point, I am wiling to risk the reaction to the mercury because I am pretty sure if I caught it, I'd be the one in the hospital with pneumonia and be dead.
I don't have contact with kids anymore and I was born in the fifties. But I do work in a psychiatric clinic 3 days a week and use public transportation/go to grad classes twice a week. I never was a hand washer until now. Now I am obsessed.
I guess I value my life too much to say I am not getting the shot. Short from staying inside my house 24 hours a day, I think it's the best protection we have. And this is from someone who has reactions to everything.
+1!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by indigoiis
My boss decided last winter that it would be okay to spread her germs around the office, and the next thing you know, the rest of us were dropping like flies, AND I had the worst asthma flare-up that I've had in YEARS as a result. Took months to start feeling well again, and most of the time was not up to the kind of physical activity I would have liked.
Re: whether to get vaccinated or not, I wonder whether those who don't get the vaccine (for whatever reason -- by choice, lack of availability, or contraindicated) might be few enough and not in contact with immune-compromised people that hopefully the risk is minimized enough to deem the vaccine successful in terms of controlling the spread of the virus? (Sorry about the poor sentence construction)
FWIW, if you don't have an anaphylactoid reaction to eating eggs, you can get the shot. I have the other type of egg allergy, and I actually tried to get a note from my allergist to get out of the seasonal flu shot - specifically so I could get the H1N1 shot without reservations - but no dice. (And I've never been asked about feather allergy, and never had an allergic reaction to a vaccine, even though feathers are the one thing that induces a very severe asthma attack for me.)
Who's saying it's going to be two+ months before the H1N1 shot will be available to the public? That's not what I'm hearing at all - in our area all first responders were vaccinated last month, pregnant women and young children are getting it right now, and we're expecting everyone who wants one will have access by the end of November.
"Meanwhile, Tom Skinner at the CDC is hopeful that the shortage will be resolved by mid-November or early December, as the agency has projected."
http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/27/swi...-shortage.html
I've heard the virus doesn't grow as fast as they thought it would in the eggs.
Karen
Not far different from the "end of November" I've been hearing.... certainly not January or later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuckervill
I heard January somewhere else. Actually, what I heard was "2010" for everyone to get fully vaccinated. But I admit it was on the news, in passing, and it could have been before they figured out how to increase production.
Karen
Some people, and these include the most vulnerable people like Sfa's son cannot get vaccinated. They rely on everyone else to get it to keep outbreaks from happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickchick
Not staying home when you are sick is of course stupid, but you are capable of spreading the flu virus a full day before you get any symptoms. This is by far enough time to have spread it to your co-workers - and remember flu can travel in the air, you don't necessarily have to touch a surface then touch yourself to catch it, so even the most diligent hand washing isn't an assurance that you will be safe. Do you know how many of your co-workers have vulnerable family members? Kids with asthma, elderly parents, partners in chemo? Vaccination works best when you protect the herd. If you prevent people from getting sick in the first place then they cannot spread the illness to the more vulnerable people.
my dad has leukemia and taking chemo which has left him with virtually no immune system to speak of.
He's already gotten his shot, so I'm glad about that. I'm still sitting on the fence in regards to my taking the H1N1. I won't bother with the seasonal flu vaccine, as I just never do, but I'm a bit weary of the H1N1 simply because I would hate it to mutate like it did in 1918 and kill the young and healthy.
I also admit that, although this is a very rare side effect, I do worry about adverse effects of the shots:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh5F5wP8RdU
Oh my word. That was so bizarre. Poor woman.
Karen
Yeah, I still highly recommend everyone read Sway, but it's a perfectly understandable and rational decisionmaking process that we all want someone else to take the risk so we don't have to.
Cross post from another forum....from the trenches
H1N1 is ugly
Some states, like Alabama, where I'm at, are restricting which of the at risk groups get vaccine because of the shortage. I cannot get it yet because the groups they're allowing to get vaccine now do not include those with underlying health conditions or immunosuppression unless they're 18 or younger.Quote:
Originally Posted by OakLeaf
Still no word here on when they'll start expanding the pool of eligible groups, let alone open it to the general public.
I can't help pointing out that three months ago the mood on this board was that the threat was overblown, and the coverage was simply fearmongering by the CDC and the press...
I've never felt it was over blown. At the hospital I work at, it's not if but when the flu became a pandemic. We've been training and preparing for a couple of years now.
On a somewhat related note (not swine flu but respiratory etiquette in general), this is cute: http://www.schooltube.com/video/40784/Sneeze-PSA
I think it is reasonable to look at vaccines, medication and other prescribed treatments with healthy skepticism. And this thread certainly has presented a lot of those issues.
I rarely get colds; I have had the flu once in the last 20 years. I work with a very vulnerable population - most of the kids I work with are immune-suppressed. I did get H1N1 vaccine for that reason. Not the happiest decision I made. I do worry that the amount of vaccine we expose people to are hyper-stimulating the immune system. A challenge to that thought is that our immune system is constantly being exposed to stuff anyway.
Zen - I'll have to read the book you suggested. My great-grandmother died of the flu in 1918- I understand it was young healthy adults with great immune systems that perhaps reacted "too much" to the virus. And I also understand that there was no way to treat the overwhelming lung infections that resulted in so many deaths - penicillin was not used in humans until 1941.
And curses to people who go to work sick, take public transit and spew and cough and sneeze and then touch everything......One woman last week coughed so hard (and of course did not cover her mouth) I felt it on my arm- I just glared at her and then proceeded to place my jacket over my mouth and nose.....I had to restrain myself from making a scene...I really am thinking seriously about driving into work.
Antibiotics will only help you if you get a secondary bacterial infection (like pneumonia). Viruses - ala flu, are unaffected by them and are still *very* difficult to treat. We do have some anti-virals these days, but supplies are limited and effectiveness is limited (Tamiflu has a very specific time period that it must be taken in to work). Of course as you probably know even bacterial infections are getting more difficult to treat, with many resistant to multiple antibiotics. If you are hospitalized with flu your chances of contracting MRSA or some other nasty are much greater (especially if you require intubation). If we were to experience a major outbreak like the one in 1918 it is likely that many, many people (young and healthy people) would still die.Quote:
Originally Posted by spindizzy
The Virginia Dept of Health is running TV commercials urging people to get the H1N1 vaccine.
Too bad there are none available right now...
I heard on local news reports that people are crossing jurisdictions to get the shot and that people NOT in the high-risk groups are getting vaccinated. I'm not judging, just thought it worth mentioning.
I love my job, really I do, the pay and bennies are great, my co-workers are great, I'm a teeny tiny itsy bitsy cog in a big company (I forget if it's Fortune 50 or 10) .... we have no sick time. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by spindizzy
If I'm sick I call in sick, I'm paid while I'm off.
If I do that often or long enough I'm fired.
The formula for what is too often or too long is kept in an ivory tower guarded by dragons. With my 13 years of PERFECT attendance (except the one time I rode my bike off a cliff to avoid hitting a kid and took a day off) I don't know what it is. If I caught the bug or a bug I could/would stay home.
But we are the be-all-end all of presentee'ism. Coworkers mostly younger than me with kids all trying to come to work each day so they don't get fired for attendance. I can't count on anyone staying home because they or a family member had this bug. :mad:
As a member of the building's safety team I am trying to get prevention tips posted in every bathroom, every break room, at every sink in the building including the admonition to stay home if you or a family member are sick.
These are official corporate policy and memos. Can I get those printed and posted? Noooo. If I do can they stay up? Nooooo.
It gets taken down by management and all we have is sell-sell-sell rah rah c&^p posted. Even in the stalls :confused: :mad:
There is a corporate department that does flu shots. Can we get them to show up in our building? Nooooooo.
Knott, Eden and all, what year is it that I may have some immunity if born before then? I'm a 1956 era.
Trek, I have to say where you work is just bizarre. How can they NOT tell you how many sick days you get and how can they fire you for being sick?
On every month's paycheck I have a listing of how many sick days I have - 88.5 days on the books currently. I forget how many days we get every year, but they accrue and if I don't use them, I'll get paid for them when I retire. They also get carried to another district if I change districts. I don't really like to call in sick - doing the sub plans is a pain in the arse. Especially doing them when you already feel like crap. Fortunately, I don't get sick very often. I'll catch colds from the students every now and then (like right now :mad:). But in general I am pretty healthy and I've never gotten a flu shot.
Veronica
A lot of places now just do PTO - paid time off. It's a catch all for vacation and sick days. Under this system I think people may tend to get in trouble. They take the days as vacation and don't budget any for getting sick - and who can blame them, because in a lot of companies the PTO expires, so if you don't use it you lose it. So you use it - then if you get sick you get in trouble... (or you come in anyway and spread your disease to all of your co-workers)
When I worked for the federal government it was *not* like this. We got sick time. If you didn't use it, it accrued - forever. My first boss was even able to take a year or two's early retirement with all of his sick leave... You could also be nice and donate sick leave to a co-worker who was out and had used up all of their own sick leave, so that they could still be paid for time off when they had a grave illness, though I think there were limits to the amount that could be transferred.
We switched from separate vacation and sick time to PTO several years ago. It hasn't been a problem for me so far. I think the co-workers who run out mid-year are the ones who take time off to take care of sick kids rather than their own illnesses.
We do have a fair number of people who sneeze and hack and cough all day at work. Most of them are suffering from allergies but you can never be sure they're not actually sharing a disease with us all. Just one more reason why I press elevator buttons with my elbow.
Under my union contract, I get sick and vacation days. First day sick is taken out of vacation -- kind of covers those mental health days without using up your sick leave. Of course, in my case after 3+ months off last year, I don't have much sick or vacation time to use. :rolleyes:
My workplace is the direct opposite of Trek's -- you can't swing the proverbial dead cat without hitting some sort of H1N1/Flu prevention flyer, poster, email, dancing bear.....
I'm not sayin' who I work for but someone once mailed a bill to my employer addressed only with our slogan "no job is so urgent, no service so important that we can not afford to do our job safely" and it got here.Quote:
Originally Posted by snapdragen
Perhaps those days are gone. Wash your hands everyone, sneeze into your elbow and be safe out there! :cool:
I wonder what would happen if I did try to show up at work the way I've been for the last several days.
First, someone would probably notice that I couldn't stand up or walk around because of fatigue. Not being able to talk without coughing could have gotten a bit of attention. Finally, my inability to stay awake might have been a bit of a problem.
Planning another day home tomorrow.
According to this timeline, it depends on whether you had the flu before the 1957 Asian flu outbreak:Quote:
Originally Posted by Trek420
http://www.newscientist.com/article/...rue&print=true
That's fascinating reading, thanks!