Stems & fit...

:rolleyes:OK, I have worked my way from the back end of the bike on fit, all the way to the front end now. Need some more help...

What's the difference of having a stem with a rise, vs a straight stem? :confused:

I know one obvious effect is that the bars are brought higher up. BUT, does a rise in the stem shorten the reach also?:confused::confused:

While bike shopping, I tried a 120mm stem w/a 6 degrees rise. The TT was shorter than my bike now, that has a 95mm straight stem, but the reach was better. How is this?

I've heard like there is more than one way to skin a cat, there is more than one way to fit a bike.

The legs were pretty good on the set up. Just trying to understand what's my formula options for the front.

Btw, I did find a stem calc tool via old threads here & w/Mr. Google's help, but I just don't quite get it:o. I need some special TE tutoring help;):).

Didn't you have a bike fitting recently (I thought I saw a post)? Hopefully your fitter could find the best length and rise for you :)

I was going to schedule an appointment and then the TE'ers on here convinced me that if I was going to change my saddle, I should do it before the fitting :p

So I'm trying out the Jett 130.... I have not been riding on the trainer lately, though since the weather has gotten so much nicer. I've been riding my commuter more which has satisfied my bike-riding needs. I should get back in the saddle to see whether or not I like it :p

All this fit stuff is so complicated ;) :p

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Originally Posted by Ana

Didn't you have a bike fitting recently (I thought I saw a post)? Hopefully your fitter could find the best length and rise for you :)

I was going to schedule an appointment and then the TE'ers on here convinced me that if I was going to change my saddle, I should do it before the fitting :p

So I'm trying out the Jett 130.... I have not been riding on the trainer lately, though since the weather has gotten so much nicer. I've been riding my commuter more which has satisfied my bike-riding needs. I should get back in the saddle to see whether or not I like it :p

All this fit stuff is so complicated ;) :p

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Hey Ana... Thx for chiming in.

Yes, my local fitter said about a 70ish stem. I assume he means straight. I went to his shop today. That's with about a 51.5 TT & achieving a 74 degree STA, ST/size 49cm. Basically, that shortens everything up for me from it all being too big now.

This out of town shop I drove 2.5hrs for also gave me a free fit about like the local fitter measured, AND I also rode on the trainer, and dialed in the cockpit with an adjustable stem tool. Probably the long drive with interest in a brand he carries made for more customer service, I dunno. Helpful 2nd op.

Here's the kicker... this 2nd guy came up with eveyrthing about the same as my local guy except the TT. He came up with longer (like 53cm TT for a "sport fit"). I didn't test ride longer. I did the frame size I traveled after 51cmTT. However, he put that really long 120mm raised stem. At first, I thought it was not right in the trainer (straight it was not). But angeled, and outside (off the dumb trainer), it seemed to work. I was kinda shocked actually. I told my local fitter this today. He thought it was too much length (one problem I have now). The local guy comes very highly recommended in biz long time....

That is why I just don't get it. :confused:

Ana... OK, on *your* fitting and saddle whoas... here's my 2 cents...

I tried many many many saddles on my current bike. None I could get right. Adjusted many things. I too was waiting out my fitting to find "the one" saddle. Thus, the fitter adjusts with rest of bike? Right? Well, the bike was the problem. Not the saddles so much.

Terry Butterfly was one saddle I tried. Didn't seem to work on my current big bike. Too fat it seemed, it bumped on pedal downstroke between the glute and hamstring crease.

Here's the kicker... this bike I test rode, with the dialed in fit, actually HAD a version of the Butterfly on it! As I dismounted before taking the bike back inside, I thought... I'm almost eebee-gee-bee scared cuz nothing hurts on me from riding... including the saddle... what is THIS saddle anyways???... the word "butterfly'" was printed on the nose (it was the gel tri version the lbs owner told me--but same shape).

That being said... the *same* saddle now fit... when the rest of the bike was worked out. GO FIGURE!!!:eek:

The local fitter told me that many of my discomforts should go by the wayside with the right size bike. ALSO, he said the source of the saddle whoas was being rotated too far forward with my pelvis and that's why the saddles all hurt.

Btw, I did try adjusting the saddles, but it only messed up other things in my riding position like KOP.

For me I think, when I was rotated too far forward, I'm sure my pedal stroke was also more forward... hope that makes sense... SOOO, when I was in a more correct pedaling position... I didn't have the rotation downward to "bump" the previously uncomfortable area of the butterfly. The contact area just went "bye bye".

FWIW, GF!:cool:

What are your dimensions (height, inseam)? :) I suspect you and I are almost the same size.

I'm 5'4" (found out a couple weeks ago when they measured me :)) and have a "long torso for my height" which means that my legs are very short. Right now I'm on a road bike with a top tube of 510 and a stem of 70mm (I forget the rise).

When I get a fitting, I will definitely post a full report! :D

How did your fitter do to fix your saddle woes? Did he adjust the components on your bicycle or your bike or geometry fit?

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"saddle whoas"

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That's pretty funny! :D

The effective length of a stem is a function of both its actual length and rise. Rise essentially offsets length. So a 100 mm stem with a 6 degree rise may be the same effective length as a 90 mm stem with no rise. The difference between a 70 mm and a 120 mm stem is relatively significant, regardless of rise. Same with the wrong fore/aft position.

I'm not sure you really need to get overly bogged down on this however. Start with your local fitter's suggestion and have him put a 70 mm stem on your bike. Ask him if the shop will exchange the stem if it ends up feeling too cramped. If you feel cramped, try the next size upask him if you can try a longer stem (go up in small intervals). You can also increase your options by getting a riser stem that can be "flipped."

As for saddles, Terry makes various "Butterfly" models. Each are a bit different.

I agree that you should get fit properly on your bike before you start auditioning saddles. Fit affects how your're sitting on the saddle. For instance, the wrong saddle height can make an otherwise good saddle feel awful.

This is why a raised stem shortens your reach: it's all about geometry:

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7128/stem.gif

You are missing the fact that the head tube is angled. So, while angling the stem indeed shortens the reach as you drew, don't forget to consider the head tube angle when you run your projections.

I find the following calculator helpful when comparing stems:

http://www.habcycles.com/fitting.html

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Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl

You are missing the fact that the head tube is angled. So, while angling the stem indeed shortens the reach as you drew, don't forget to consider the head tube angle when you run your projections.

I find the following calculator helpful when comparing stems:

http://www.habcycles.com/fitting.html

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Thx, Trisk for posting that. I had found it searching TE and still couldn't wrap my mind aroud the math. I'm thick-skulled when it comes to math:o. I think, I almost get it...

OK, this set up I test rode was this:

70.1 HT angle (part that throws me-it's diff than avg basic example--he says you can add a calculation step to correct this)

120mm stem w/ 6 degree rise

51cm TT, but pushed back a wee bit... maybe 0.5cm, so TT 51.5cm effective

HT 110mm, no spacers underneath stem

The shop guy measured the drop of the bars to be about 1 inch below the saddle this way. My spine was pretty straight looking in the mirror, but it seemed a bit streched to the hoods on the trainer. When I got outside riding, it seemed better/shorter. Hmm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ana

What are your dimensions (height, inseam)? :) I suspect you and I are almost the same size.

I'm 5'4" (found out a couple weeks ago when they measured me :)) and have a "long torso for my height" which means that my legs are very short. Right now I'm on a road bike with a top tube of 510 and a stem of 70mm (I forget the rise).

When I get a fitting, I will definitely post a full report! :D

How did your fitter do to fix your saddle woes? Did he adjust the components on your bicycle or your bike or geometry fit?

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Ana... I think for me it was just getting the whole bike overall to fit me better, vs being too big and fighting to ride it almost. Though that gel Terry is for sure on my list to try now;)!

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Originally Posted by BleeckerSt_Girl

That's pretty funny! :D

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BSG... lol, I love TE, it always seems to give my spirits a lift when I need it... glad to return the service:p.

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Originally Posted by indysteel

The effective length of a stem is a function of both its actual length and rise. Rise essentially offsets length... ...You can also increase your options by getting a riser stem that can be "flipped."

As for saddles, Terry makes various "Butterfly" models. Each are a bit different.

I agree that you should get fit properly on your bike before you start auditioning saddles. Fit affects how your're sitting on the saddle. For instance, the wrong saddle height can make an otherwise good saddle feel awful.

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Indysteele.... Thx... this makes more sense now. I have 2 Terry saddles in my "home collection" that I am going to re-try. I have wondered all along if a tri saddle might be good for me. I think part of my issue for saying this I found on TE. It was thread about ladies hormones changing and suddenly having saddle issues. My gyn doc says our tissues thin in times of perimenopause (like me). Too thick of chamois causes chaffing elsewhere for me I've found. So, if my body can make up the cushion diff, maybe a wee bit more cushion on the nose area (like tri saddles have) might be the right combo. After the correct fit of course;).

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Originally Posted by alpinerabbit

This is why a raised stem shortens your reach: it's all about geometry:

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7128/stem.gif

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Alpinerabbit... Thx for posting this pic:cool:! I'm a visual person and that seals the effect of the actual stem rise in my mind. I just need to finish what Trisk is telling me about the HT angle now...

This chart says it all:

http://www.habcycles.com/fitting.html