Giving roadies a bad rep

There's nothing that bothers me more than roadies who have a complete disregard for the rules of the road. I am a roadie myself and I take great pains to follow the general rules of traffic. Stopping at red lights and stop signs, signalling before turns, and just as a safety thing I try to do everything I can to let the cars traveling around me know what I'm doing as I ride. As a driver, I have an extremely high tolerance for cyclists on the road, as I can sympathize with them in heavy traffic and busy roads.

But I just can't stand it when I see cyclists flying through stop signs, running red lights, pulling out in traffic with out looking and countless other careless acts. It not only puts them in danger, but can also cause major accidents! And moreover it gives the rest of us a bad name. The majority of us are law abiding roadies, but these few idiots make the rest of us look bad. It's no wonder that many drivers have little tolerance for cyclists on the road when some many out there ride the way they do!

I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, but please ride smart and follow rules of the road. Remember you're not invincible and are required to comply with the same laws as cars do.

Emily

When riding on the road, I ride with a group 95% of the time.

On our last group ride, there was this newbie... who insisted on riding in the lane NEXT to everyone else. So, we are taking up the entire right lane, and he is blocking the lane where cars are suppose to have room to get around us.

It pissed just about everyone off.

I talked to him about it and said that we wanted to make sure he would be OK... and not get hit by a car, so it would be best for him to ride in the lane with us.

He said, that he rode in the lane by himself... because his theory is that the one who DOES NOT get HIT is the one who STICKS OUT LIKE A SORE THUMB. So, for some odd reason, he figured that a car would go to hit a group of 30 cyclists, instead of hitting the idiot blocking his lane.

DUH! Yea, he gave us all a bad name that day.

On the ride I did this weekend, there was a three way stop by a general store. I had stopped at the store, then ran across the road to take pix. There was a group of riders stopped and waiting for a car to pass, when another group of riders blew the sign. One of the stopped guys screams out "Hey! It's a stopsign *$&holes!":p

That's why I'm not too keen on big group rides anymore* - there always seems to be a few that ignore the rules of the road. It's too stressful and irritating to be around people like that.

*except of course for rides with the TE gang since we're all good cycling citizens [insert angel smilie here].

Um, I run stop signs in the neighborhood when there are no cars around. (Not when driving, but when cycling.)

On the other hand, when there ARE cars, I come to a stop whether I have the right of way or not -- I don't trust them not to hit me!

How bad am I?

Pooks, slow at the stop signs when no one's there, even if you don't stop--just safer. You don't have to put a foot down, but slow and look, and you'll be fine (as long as cops don't hang out around there).

One of the not so great things in the Seattle to Portland ride this weekend: a couple of people who live in the area posted messages to the Cascade Bicycle Club board complaining about some groups of riders blocking the lane and making driving a really scary event. I hope it opened some eyes for folks. Here's part of one of the posts:

"A week before the start I crashed and trashed my shoulder and arm...against my judgement we drove the course from Kent to about
Centralia. Oh do I ever regret doing that. I will ride far differently after having had to drive past several thousand bikes. Magnify the riders feelings about
danagerous riding behavior and you will have an idea of the drivers feelings. Pullouts without looking. Pullouts with looking. Straddling the white line.
Stopped bikes forceing riders to swerve. I was in the green suv and spent as much time as I could driving in the turn lane! I don't think a fraction
of the riders had a clue as to how incredibly lucky they were to not have been hit. Too many ipods. Not enough mirrors. I will pedal much differently next year..."

On a happier note, there was an STP finisher with one arm. No legs, and only one arm. How cool is that??

salsabike "there was an STP finisher with one arm. No legs, and only one arm. How cool is that??"

but OMG, that's got to be one heckofanarm. :D

I don't have a really good picture of him but this guy rode the last 2 AIDS rides I did. Y'all know I'm slow but on registration day of my first ride I said to tentmate Kathy "I'll be slow but I think I'll be in before the handcycle"

"Oh no you won't" she said, and she was right.

Back to subject, I will admit I blow through most T intersections, eg: traffic from the left but nothing on the right, I slow for stop signs, stop if there's *any* traffic visible, never go through a yellow light and even when it's green check for red-light runners. As a ped or cyclist I don't like to be the first one to go on green.

I learned not to yell "clear" at intersections, just because it's clear for me, might not be for you a nano second later.

I do slow down -- I'm a big chicken! But I don't stop unless there are cars around!

Hmmm. I slow down at stop signs, but if there's no traffic I don't stop. So guilty there. At a red light I'll slow down and if it's a small intersection and there's no traffic, I go through. If there are cars, I stop and wait for the green. Guilty there too. I never, however, blow through intersections. There's always a slow down/unclip one foot/check it out on my part. I also yield to cars who have the right of way. I do a lot of urban riding, and have to admit I picked up a lot of my bad habits watching bike messengers :)

Let the beatings begin.

I appear to be in the minority here because I usually do come to a full stop. I will admit that there are times when I don't put a foot down - that is, I do a kind of rolling stop - but that is only when it's a totally flat and clear intersection. I wish I could say that I never go through a red light - but there is one intersection on my travels that is always green for one of the roads unless a car approaches on the cross street. And I do mean a car - my bike will not trigger the light to change. If I come up to that intersection I come to a complete stop. I do cross on the red, but only when there are no vehicles in sight coming from either direction (and the speed limit there is 50 mph, so I don't head across unless there are no vehicles in sight!). Unfortunately, I believe that if I didn't do that I would be standing there waiting to cross until a car came up to cross the intersection...

Bicycles are considered vehicles (in the US, that is - per the motor vehicle code of all 50 states), and I believe that we need to be following the rules of the road.

I find for the most part that I am treated with respect by motor vehicles. Yes, there are the idiots out there who come to close, but I'd say there are more drivers who are respectful than not. And although I do not work (or ride) in a big city, the roads I take on my way to work are pretty heavy commuter roads. There is a section that I avoid because that section is driven as 4 lanes, the 4 lanes are tight with just the cars, and there is a curb rather than a shoulder. I prefer to avoid that section of road at rush hour, so I ride a couple of extra miles to get to the office.

--- Denise

I was so p*ssed at myself our last day in Nova Scotia when I discovered partway through an intersection that I had run a red light. It was one of those T intersections. It was foggy and my I was wearing my glasses (stupid eye infection!) and they were fogged. I just could not see the light until I was midway through the intersection. I was perfectly safe, BUT I stop at stoplights - even those T ones - because we are vehicles.

V.

I think lots of us have had to go through reds after a stop. I was doing a charity ride this past spring and there were 8 of us in a left turn lane trying to get the light to change. We tried to get the car behind us to come up to change the light, but they were being nice to us, not understanding the problem. So we finally had to go when we got the chance.

I confess, I do not stop at every single stop sign. I do slow, and now I will usually stop if I think there is a car who sees me. I have always felt bad about this, but now that I've read that Idaho is allowing this, I figure it is reasonable behavior, even if not legal, and I have justification for it.

There is one traffic signal that I do not stop for, since it is a T and I don't receive cross-traffic, and there is a bike lane there. I do slow and watch, because you never know if a driver going too fast for a turn will stay in their lane. I rationalize this by thinking, it's not an intersection for me, because I don't think a bike would ever make a left hand turn at that particular spot. It is from Columbia Road Westbound, onto Portland Road. I am also going uphill at that point.;)

Last week, BF gave me a ride downtown in his pickup. (Bike was in the back, on it's way to get fixed:) ). He yelled at a cyclist, I didn't see anything wrong with what the cyclist did. But then, the guy came up between two lanes of cars lined up at a stop light. Having a cyclist come up from behind on my left side would spook me out. Now that I think about it, it could be there was a right hand turn lane (That"s the only RATIONAL reason for wanting to do that.:confused: )

Also, I have seen an increase in all kinds of people riding bikes. At first, I was glad to see them, but now many of them ride on the wrong side of the street, in a dedicated bike lane. There was one place that I USED to do this, for about 1/4 of a block. It just didn't make sense to me to cross the street twice in that distance to be on the right side. I no longer do this, because I don't want to be a model of bad cycling behavior for those "lowest common denominator'" newbies.

Mary

I always stop at red lights and am the dork who pushes the button for the pedestrian "walk" signal at some of them....as for stop signs, I don't stop if it's a four-way stop and I can see there is no traffic....although I do tend to slow down to insure that no one is coming. When cycling on single lane roads around tight corners with a car behind me, I also try to see ahead and signal for the car when it's ok for them to safely pass me.....when we respect the car drivers I think they respect us more....

Actually, I'm having fun trying to make the lights change at an intersection near my house. I unclip both feet and "tap dance" on the metal lines in the road that sense the cars. I can generally get the light to change pretty quickly, too.


My daughter thinks I need to get a life. What does she know?

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Originally Posted by DeniseGoldberg

If I come up to that intersection I come to a complete stop. I do cross on the red, but only when there are no vehicles in sight coming from either direction (and the speed limit there is 50 mph, so I don't head across unless there are no vehicles in sight!). Unfortunately, I believe that if I didn't do that I would be standing there waiting to cross until a car came up to cross the intersection...

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Denise - I'm not sure about the rules in all states, but I recently took a bicycle safety class here in CA and was told that if a light won't change for a bicycle, it is considered defective and you can't be ticketed for going through it (if it's safe and there are no cars of course).

I obey all the traffic rules also, though do tend to commit a California stop in the stopsigns in subdivisions--I unclip though I may not put my foot down. In the same class mentioned above, our instructor, while not encouraging us to run the signs, pointed out that a lot of stopsigns, especially those on residential streets, are "political stopsigns" - the neighborhood felt cars were driving too fast and demanded a stop sign, when a yield sign would have been just as efficient. You just need to make sure you're ready to stop.

i hate when riders think organized ride means take the whole lane and then some...

EVERY ride i've ever done tells riders to follow the rules of the road and ride single file.... now i can understand riding 2 across WHEN IT'S SAFE TO DO! and when they still stay to the far right.... but there are always those that take the whole freakin' lane!

stagecoach back in january was like that... 3 or 4 riders would ride across the lane.... and block the cars behind them.... granted... it wasn't a busy road... but that doesn't give us riders the right to block it like that!

this past saturday at palomar... i noticed the same thing.... several riders riding across the whole lane! there were times i wanted to pass (ya.... go figure! me passing others instead of getting passed! but i digress!) anyways... they'd be riding in the middle of the lane or 2-3 of them spread across an i practically had to go in the oncoming lane to pass the jerks! :mad:

there was one point i was behind 2 guys riding down the middle of the lane completely ignoring the truck that came up behind them blowing its horn.... UGH!

as for stop signs.... if i can see there are no cars coming... i slow down a bit and look very carefully both ways! we only have 2 red lights in out town... and i rarely go by them... if if i do... yes i stop for them... cuz both are busy intersections!

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i hate when riders think organized ride means take the whole lane and then some...

EVERY ride i've ever done tells riders to follow the rules of the road and ride single file.... now i can understand riding 2 across WHEN IT'S SAFE TO DO! and when they still stay to the far right.... but there are always those that take the whole freakin' lane!

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When there is a road where there is only one-lane going each direction, riders should ride single file.

I really ticks me off when people in my group do not follow this rule.


When there is a road with 2+ lanes going each direction, the cyclist(s) should take and HOLD the right lane, by riding the middle, not single file or near the gutter.

Why? Because cars have a lane to pass on the left, and if you leave room for them to pass IN the lane you are in, they will do it. Even my best friend has done it to riders, because she needed to get home... to watch TV.

both rides in question.... the roads were 2 lane... one lane of traffic in each direction....

i have to disagree with the more than one lane thing though.... the highway that goes between our town and the next two desert towns and continues on "down the hill"... i would NEVER EVER dream of riding IN the righthand lane... which is what you propose... suggest.... IF i even ride on that road... i ride TO THE RIGHT and to the right of white shoulder marking line, if possible... AND every other rider i've seen on that road does the same!

the rules of the road (at least here in california...) don't say you can "take a whole lane" they say ride to the right as safe as practical or something to that effect....

laws/rules of the road must be different in texas than cali... cuz i've NEVER heard of taking the middle of the lane as being legal...?????? haven't read it here... or on other forums... of course... i'm open to reading it if you provide links! cuz gawd knows... i don't know ALL the rules... but i know "I'M" not riding down the middle of the road and getting myself killed!!!!!!!!!

Taking the lane is legal if it's safe and/or the right edge of the road is in horrible shape. There has been much debate in my cycling club about which is "safer" for all concerned--a long line of single file riders that cause a car to ride partially into the oncoming lane for a l-o-n-g time or a bunched up group in the confines of their lane that a car can pass more quickly, just as if they were passing a slow vehicle.

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Originally Posted by caligurl

both rides in question.... the roads were 2 lane... one lane of traffic in each direction....

i have to disagree with the more than one lane thing though.... the highway that goes between our town and the next two desert towns and continues on "down the hill"... i would NEVER EVER dream of riding IN the righthand lane... which is what you propose... suggest.... IF i even ride on that road... i ride TO THE RIGHT and to the right of white shoulder marking line, if possible... AND every other rider i've seen on that road does the same!

the rules of the road (at least here in california...) don't say you can "take a whole lane" they say ride to the right as safe as practical or something to that effect....

laws/rules of the road must be different in texas than cali... cuz i've NEVER heard of taking the middle of the lane as being legal...?????? haven't read it here... or on other forums... of course... i'm open to reading it if you provide links! cuz gawd knows... i don't know ALL the rules... but i know "I'M" not riding down the middle of the road and getting myself killed!!!!!!!!!

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OK, a Highway situation is DIFFERENT. My directions were for city streets with NO shoulder. I never ride on highways, and only did it during the MS150 both years, and I rode on the shoulder the whole way.

But, on city streets, where there are 2 lanes going the same direction, and cars can pass on the right safely in a full lane, then the rider in the right lane needs to HOLD HIS/HER lane. This is how I was taught.

Let's think about it... if we are like cars... would 2 cars share a lane? No. If there is a slow moving car in the right lane, cars go around in the left lane. They don't pass the car, in the right lane.

I also don't want to share a lane with a car, if the car has a full lane to pass me on the left side. It's just dangerous. If I am inches from the car and it hits a pothole, I could get knocked off my bike. Why risk my life, if they can pass me safely in the left lane? So, I ride in the middle and hold my lane. They can see me, don't try to share the lane with me, and can safely pass me in a full lane on my left side.

Then again, I typically ride in groups of 10-30 riders. We take a full lane. Sure, we should ride single file when there is one lane going one direction.. otherwise, we fill up the right lane. I have ridden alone on city streets only 5% of the time, and that's because I am inbetween groups.

I'm all for not getting in the way of cars and giving them the room to get on their way... I am also all for making sure I live.

I'm more with KSH on this argument. I much prefer to act like a vehicle and am allowed to. Many places in the city I can ride at or near the the speed of traffic and much prefer to assert my right to be on the road. It is unpleasant to have a car squeeze by when they could wait for a few seconds or use the other lane on a two lane road (and in fact illegal for them to do - they are supposed to leave us 3 to 5 feet! of space when passing in this state). Even if the road has a shoulder and you are riding to the right of the white line drivers should still be giving you a lot of space, which they usually do not. Plus, the shoulders are often filled with potholes and debris and bike lanes are often dangerous - being directly in the door zone of parked cars. We have the choice of deciding where we ride and we ride where we feel safest. Does it mean that we are intentionally snotty and blocking traffic all of the time - of course not. We generally ride single file and as far right as is safe, but there are certainly many situations that we use the rights that we have. I'm pretty sure I've never had a 5 car backup behind me - which is the point at which no matter what type of slow vehicle you are operating, horse buggy, bike, RV, whatever, you are supposed to pull over to let the backup pass.


RCW 46.61.770
Riding on roadways and bicycle paths.


(1) Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a rate of speed less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and place shall ride as near to the right side of the right through lane as is safe except as may be appropriate while preparing to make or while making turning movements, or while overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction. A person operating a bicycle upon a roadway or highway other than a limited-access highway, which roadway or highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near to the left side of the left through lane as is safe. A person operating a bicycle upon a roadway may use the shoulder of the roadway or any specially designated bicycle lane if such exists.

(2) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway shall not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles.

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Originally Posted by Eden

I'm more with KSH on this argument. I much prefer to act like a vehicle and am allowed to. Many places in the city I can ride at or near the the speed of traffic and much prefer to assert my right to be on the road. I]

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I totally agree with you, Eden and KSH. There are many places where there are no bike lanes at all. It does not mean that we do not have rights. I am not voting for upsetting the drivers or being rude. But "share the road" means extactly that. I don't know how many times I get looks from the drivers because I am on the right side and they really need to pass, as if the world will be over. I had one driver following me and harrasing me at my house because i asked him to show the turn signal and he didn't at the stop sign. I was going uphill on a 9 mile hill on a very narrow bike lane and car were just honking. Although, I would never piss them off on purpose, I have no respect for this type of drivers and I will take my lane when I need to.

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Originally Posted by Eden

I'm more with KSH on this argument. I much prefer to act like a vehicle and am allowed to. ...

RCW 46.61.770
Riding on roadways and bicycle paths.

(1) Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a rate of speed less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and place shall ride as near to the right side of the right through lane as is safe except as may be appropriate while preparing to make or while making turning movements, or while overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction. A person operating a bicycle upon a roadway or highway other than a limited-access highway, which roadway or highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near to the left side of the left through lane as is safe. A person operating a bicycle upon a roadway may use the shoulder of the roadway or any specially designated bicycle lane if such exists.

(2) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway shall not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles.

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I agree with you and I also prefer to ride in the road - which the vehicle code clearly allows.

For anyone who is not familiar with the vehicle code in your state, I'd advise you to check on your state's code before assuming that the code Eden shows above applies to your state too. I live in Massachusetts where the vehicle code states: "Operators of bicycles shall be subject to the following regulations: 1. The operator shall ride single file on any way except when passing. ... "

Here's a link to a page that will give you easy access to the bicycle-related vehicle code within the US, plus a few links for other countries too: http://www.massbike.org/bikelaw/bikelaw.htm

--- Denise

Absolutely - check your own state. The code I posted is for Washington. In Oregon you can get a ticket for not using bike lanes or paths when they are available. In Idaho you are allowed to only slow for stop signs (and I think even red lights) without stopping or putting a foot down. It can be significantly different depending on your area.

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Originally Posted by KSH

When there is a road with 2+ lanes going each direction, the cyclist(s) should take and HOLD the right lane, by riding the middle, not single file or near the gutter.

Why? Because cars have a lane to pass on the left, and if you leave room for them to pass IN the lane you are in, they will do it. Even my best friend has done it to riders, because she needed to get home... to watch TV.

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Ok, so how about this situation:

The two lane road with a good shoulder I was riding on turned into 2 lanes in each direction. I continued to stay on the shoulder, until the point that another lane came in on the right that was the merge lane to enter/exit a highway I was crossing over. In this case I had no option but to take up the entire center lane. However at one point there were so many cars merging in and out my lane trying to get on or off the highway ramp that i considered moving into the left lane.

Needless to say, I was so scared of all the cars merging in and out that I nearly pooped my pants. On the plus side, I hit my new top speed. But I just wasn't sure what to do in this situation...take up the whole lane and pray the merging cars don't hit me or move to the left lane...

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Originally Posted by CycleChic06

Ok, so how about this situation:

The two lane road with a good shoulder I was riding on turned into 2 lanes in each direction. I continued to stay on the shoulder, until the point that another lane came in on the right that was the merge lane to enter/exit a highway I was crossing over. In this case I had no option but to take up the entire center lane. However at one point there were so many cars merging in and out my lane trying to get on or off the highway ramp that i considered moving into the left lane.

Needless to say, I was so scared of all the cars merging in and out that I nearly pooped my pants. On the plus side, I hit my new top speed. But I just wasn't sure what to do in this situation...take up the whole lane and pray the merging cars don't hit me or move to the left lane...

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That sound scary!

I can honestly say that I haven't been in a situation like that before!

I think in the end, we all need to make decisions on the road that preserve our lives. Sometimes those decisions might be lawful, and sometimes not.

In the end, I'm all about staying alive... and if a cop wants to ticket me for holding my lane, when cars can pass on the left in their own lane... then so be it. A ticket is worth my life....because I don't trust drivers not to pass within inches of me, if they are trying to share the right lane with me.

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Originally Posted by CycleChic06

Ok, so how about this situation:

Needless to say, I was so scared of all the cars merging in and out that I nearly pooped my pants. On the plus side, I hit my new top speed. But I just wasn't sure what to do in this situation...take up the whole lane and pray the merging cars don't hit me or move to the left lane...

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This is actually the most stressful part of my commute to work. I have to get into the left lane to turn left. there are all these people trying to go around me. Somehow they all seem to appear just as i need to get over into the left lane. Scares ME to death because i also have to take my hand off the handlebars to signal my turn!!!!:eek:

WHether or not it is legal to take a lane (NOT on a highway--many highways don't even allow bikes on the shoulder) is totally dictated by local and state vehicle codes.

I know that oregon and california do allow it (and could get you the statute ## if anyone wants--they're on the SF Bike coalition and BTA websites), but not every state is the same here. So, if you're in a different state, you should probably check it out.

That said, i usually take as much of the lane as i feel is safe, on surface streets. SOmetime safer to take the lane (and not get doored), sometimes better to hug the curb.

I often feel that if i stand out some, i will be better seen than if i'm hiding in the shadows. I've never (knock on wood) been hit by a car because i'm in the lane, but i have been both doored and turned into by a car turning right and a car turning left during my urban biking over the years. I think if i was more in the lane, in each instance, i would have avoided contact with those cars.

We have many stretches of road where it's one lane on each side - and miles of open, flat road. 8 of us two abreast get passed just as a car would - there's oodles of visibility.
When folks treat the roads closer into town the same way, though, I get off the group and take my part of my lane.
It's "scarier" but around here, too, taking more of the lane works better. I think of when I was learning to drive, and I was sure that every car was going to hit me (merge onto the interstate? AARGH~... now of course it's nothing!).

It's tough, htough, when the drivers aren't educated (and/or the facilities are set up to be confusing). We've got a road with a bike lane - that ducks off the road for stretches. Unfortunately, one of the places where it cuts off is right before the intersection where I have to turn left. SO yesterday I was approaching the intersection, and behind me the clump of cars from the previous intersection's light was approaching... but I had room to cut across the two lanes into the left turn lane, though not by too much.
Unfortunately, the very sight of me leaving the bike lane and entering traffic inspired a driver to lay on his/her horn. While I was reasonably certain it was simply an expression of indignance (it's amazing how emotions can be conveyed), it still caused me to pause, so instead I had to be in traffic while they all went by, and then move left. (Fortunately, it's just one clump with a huge gap between, so I didn't have to be all assertive and try to merge across through traffic. I'm not quite at that level of comfort... yet?...)
It's one of those cases where *no* path would be better - the drivers would be less inclined to be indignant about "idiot cyclists who don't use the bike path." (If I were to stick to the path, then I'd be 'way off to the right, intending to go left; even doing it like a pedestrian isn't particularly visible or safe.)
IT almost made me forget about being at the light at the corner of DUncan & Kirby and noticing a car out of the corner of my eye to my right, and just scooting a little more towards the center, and hearing a polite, "Thank you," as the young male was able to make the right turn on red.
And just found out this morning that one of my students' husband was killed Saturday in a cycling accident, but I know *no* details about it.

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Originally Posted by Eden

Absolutely - check your own state. The code I posted is for Washington. In Oregon you can get a ticket for not using bike lanes or paths when they are available. In Idaho you are allowed to only slow for stop signs (and I think even red lights) without stopping or putting a foot down. It can be significantly different depending on your area.

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True, we Idahoans can slow for stop signs, but I don't. I stop. I figure if I am to be treated as the slow moving vehicle I am, obeying traffic laws, I am not going to just slow for a stop sign. I don't want to confuse the cars around me and appear to be just another ignorant cyclist with not a care for traffic laws. Besides, I just don't feel safe NOT stopping. Overly cautious? Perhaps, but I would rather live to ride another day.

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Originally Posted by Tater

True, we Idahoans can slow for stop signs, but I don't. I stop. I figure if I am to be treated as the slow moving vehicle I am, obeying traffic laws, I am not going to just slow for a stop sign. I don't want to confuse the cars around me and appear to be just another ignorant cyclist with not a care for traffic laws. Besides, I just don't feel safe NOT stopping. Overly cautious? Perhaps, but I would rather live to ride another day.

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I don't think anyone will bother you for that :D

This a.m. I slowed-and-rolled through a stop sign *because* there was a car coming. It's one of our ubiquitous four-way stops, and I was clearly the first one there, and stopping completely would have slowed everybody down (waiting fo rme to stop and then get going again) as well as confused them. Spirit of the law was entirely followed.

I think it all comes down to responding to particular situations, including local laws. Whether I take a lane or not depends on a lot of things, such as how fast the cars may be going, the type of neighborhood I am in (do I anticipate motorists to be aware of bike traffic,lighting conditions, even trees, that I think I may blend in with along the side of the road. the condition of the pavement. If there is junk, I will move over a little to the left so I can get some wiggle room, if it is a wide enough for me to do so. If I need to swerve to miss something, Idon't want to turn to the left INTO traffic. At some point, a car cannot safely pass anyway, so then I will move to the center for visibility. I continually think of what a car coming of from behind may be seeing, or rather NOT seeing.:D

In my mind these all factor into what is a practical right side position, including being in the leftmost lane when executing a left hand turn! I wish to know the law better, so I can follow it better.

But I know that there will be situations where I break the law, such as stopping at every stop sign in a city residential area, when I can see that no cars are approaching. By the time I got going again, a car would be coming, and I'd be in the middle of crossing when he got to the intersection! But this is on roads with a speed limit of 20 mph, with stop signs every two blocks.

Mary