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Tyler will be interviewed by 60 minutes this Sunday and he is claiming that not only did he dope but that Lance did as well. In an ongoing federal investigation, Frankie Andreu also admits that he had to dope just to remain competitive. More about this in an article here.
Maybe Lance did... but whatever Tyler says, I won't believe him. He lacks credibility now and it's too bad he's being given so much press.
Veronica
I just wonder what Tyler's motivation is. As Veronica said, who would believe him?
And to think I almost invited him to speak at my school at one point.
I hate that the only publicity cycling ever gets on network TV is always about doping. Now that Lance isn't racing, they don't even mention the tour de France, one of the biggest sports events in the world, unless there's a scandal. It's sickening.
Yawn.
Tyler needs money.
I agree with all of you, but the bottom line is, if EVERYONE is doping,.... ?????
what kind of sport is it? Nothing I'd want to support, that's for sure. And that's pretty sad...
I don't think everyone is doping. I think it's sad that honest racers have to live with this stigma. I'll always love this sport. I refuse to let the cheaters ruin it for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biciclista
I agree. Here on the east coast the Tour of California have not been mentioned on any news channel, TV or radio. What do I hear on the radio (news station) this morning, this Tyler interview. Sickening as cycling is getting credit for one thing only it seems. 2 USA cyclists up in front and not a word.Quote:
Originally Posted by redrhodie
LA has been tested over 500 times on and off season and nothing found. Give it up already!!! I heard Tyler is writing a book. cha ching
Wolf! Wolf! Wolf!.......
Unfortunately, the tests are weak, so LA might have tested negative 1000 times and that does not prove that he is clean. I love watching the grand tours, but I will not idolize any of the riders. Not Armstrong, nor Horner, Nibali, Schleck, Contador, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo-n-NY
time for everyone to get a life and move on.
I'm not all that inclined to believe anything Tyler H. says, but unfortunately, George Hincapie has confirmed the same thing. :( I AM inclined to believe George. Interviews with both George and Tyler (not sure if together or separate) will be shown on 60 Minutes this Sunday.
Well that's a sad end to a long friendship. And points a finger right back at George.Quote:
Originally Posted by emily_in_nc
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Update: catching up on twitter. These were posted by George tonight.
ghincapie I can confirm to you I never spoke with "60 Minutes." I have no idea where they got their information.
ghincapie As I've said in the past, I continue to be disappointed that people are talking about the past in cycling instead of the future.
ghincapie As for the substance of anything in the "60 Minutes" story, I cannot comment on anything relating to the ongoing investigation.
Funny that these big revelations come up during the Tour of CA (last year was Landis).
One of my questions is? To what outcome?
Lance also tweeted facts4lance.com if you want more info.
Edit: OK. I've gone back and read some more articles. I have a problem with the credibility of someone who: 1) Got caught doping then turns around and says "He did it too!" 2) Testified that he/they didn't dope and then testify again that they did. Doesn't that make them an uncredible witness in our legal system?
The revelations coincide with big tours because that is when mainstream media tunes into the sport.
It is sad that tests for doping are always two or three steps behind. It would be nice to think (like Hincapie) that what happened in the past should be forgotten, except that some still benefit from past results. Should there be a statute of limitations? Riders that get caught have an incentive to deny everything until any possibility of returning to the sport is gone. Hence, I do not find the Hamilton or Landis inconsistencies particularly perturbing. What I find perturbing is the almost blind faith in Armstrong as being above all reproach despite his continued affiliation with Michele Ferrari, s doctor banned by the Italian cycling federation, despite the trickle of former teammates admitting to doping (I guess He was the only one not to do it), despite the super human performances.
I have mixed feelings on the issue of doping. At some level, I feel that the current setup at the professional sport leads many to doping or feel pressured to do so. The grand tours are like Roman circuses. How can riders do more than 20 races back to back (21 in the Giro alone) and recover from one day to the next? As spectators, we love heroic efforts and we get them, somehow... Now, I will readily admit pro riders are gifted athletes. Most of us would not survive a single racing day, even with if we doped.
I think that racers who dope - and I take that to be the majority of pro riders - go through something pretty weird having to constantly lie not just to others but also to themselves about how they survive in the terribly harsh world of bike racing. They feel doping is the only way, yet of course they can't say that out loud... until they're caught. Then, they can bury themselves in a hole, or try to fight back. For the few guys that were caught and exposed with somewhat more energy than others, like Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton, it might be particularly frustrating to find that they are treated as black sheep when they know that the whole peleton is just as dark as they are. It might be even harder because their whole identity is centered on bike racing, it's not like they have a life, a profession, something to connect with outside of pro cycling. So their attention may become focused on what they perceive as the ultimate symbol of hypocrisy, in this case Lance.
Yes they are sore losers, but I have a lot more sympathy for them than I have for those who win and keep their image. I see them as little children more than like grownups.
This interview with Landis takes a very long time to read but for me it really was interesting not just about what it says about bike racing, but what it says about human beings. Whether or not one believes Landis is not really important in my opinion...
http://nyvelocity.com/content/interv.../landiskimmage
Hey, I have no idea what Lance did or didn't do. I think he did lots of legal things to be better than everyone else, like weighing his food, pre-riding the key stages and training on Christmas day while his main competition was out clubbing and showing up to the prologue overweight. Beyond that, who knows what he did. For the sake of all the people that he helps around the world, I would like him to be innocent. I would not be surprised if he's not.
But if Tyler suddenly feels the need to tell the world that he can prove Lance took drugs, why is he on TV instead of talking to the prosecutors who are currently investigating Lance? The ones who testify under oath are the only ones with credibility, in my opinion.
And Tyler and Floyd could have admitted their own doping when they first got caught. I used to think David Millar was kind of whiny and annoying. Then he got caught, confessed, apologized, admitted he regretted it, and became outspoken against drug use. He's not world champion, but he has a career he can enjoy and be proud of. Tyler and Floyd could have taken the same route, but they chose not to. I have no sympathy for them.
According the CNN morning news, Tyler was in town to testify and was "coerced" into the 60 minute interview and "was clearly uncomfortable."
WAH? Just say NO--well, that would have solved a lot of problems ;)
I'm sorry for not including the link to the story I read about George -- upon re-reading, it doesn't sound like he's going to be on the 60 Minutes interview, but unless the entire story is false, he has stated to the FDA that Lance (and he, George, both doped). Very sad indeed:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/repo...ame=0&ns_fee=0
The 60 Minutes interview came after he testified. I do believe his "turn-around" was a result of being forced to talk and come clean to the prosecutors who are investigating Lance. (or face jail)..such is the case with Hincapie, too. People claim Tyler's opportunist, but I do believe he wouldn't have done this if he didn't have to. I am glad for it. That guy used to be the most upbeat, pure-hearted racer around, and now he looks completely broken, and I assume this is because of all of this. Doping in pro cycling is systemic, and, yes, Lance has never been "caught," but if people seriously think he hasn't doped, they are quite naive. I think the whole circus is disturbing, but shedding light on the big shadow of doping in professional bike racing is, in the long view, a very good thing, even if Lance comes down as a result.Quote:
But if Tyler suddenly feels the need to tell the world that he can prove Lance took drugs, why is he on TV instead of talking to the prosecutors who are currently investigating Lance? The ones who testify under oath are the only ones with credibility, in my opinion.
I recently saw this movie (which makes some sly Lance references) about doping (in all sports, even recreational/amateur use). http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1151309/
It still boggles my mind, but it helped me see just how some people can talk themselves into justifying use of PEDs while lying to everyone.
But, more on topic, aren't people saying that Tyler is writing a book and looking for publicity?
Less on topic, I know some people paying for his coaching services who are really happy with that. He seems to have used coaching to rebuild his credibility, and then with this interview, it just brings back to mind how he lied before.
I've talked to serious riders who are in the medical field & they unequivocally state that Lance had to be doping. Coming back that hard & strong after his cancer treatment is unbelievable. Lance used to say his lung capacity was more than the average mortal, but that's been disproved.
So did Lance dope? Probably. Why didn't TH come out earlier? When is his book being released? :rolleyes:
I want to believe that Lance didn't dope....and Hincapie....and Dave Z. But Lance has stated in an authorized biography, Lance Armstrong's War, that everyone dopes. So that leaves more questions than answers in my book. We know that doping has become epidemic in pro cycling and that it brings a tragic ending (suicide) to some of the cylists. :(
Unfortunately for 60 Minutes, their show airs at the same time as the final stage of AToC. Guess what I'll be watching. :rolleyes:
I'm pretty cynical, and no one who knows me will ever accuse me of being a cockeyed optimist. But I believe that many cyclists today are not doping.Quote:
Originally Posted by sundial
It used to be an epidemic. The roads used to be littered with used syringes after the tour passed. When guys like Lance, George and Jens started, it was still pretty common.
But I think it has changed, and many riders are clean now.
One thing I wonder -- why isn't anyone accusing Indurain of using drugs? Or Hinault and Merckx? Fignon admitted to doping, and LeMond and Hinault beat him, so why don't we think they were on drugs, too? LeMond won the Tour with pieces of lead in his lungs. Why do we believe he was clean?
Good question. When did the UCI (or whatever cycling organization) start testing for doping? Going further back, Fausto Coppi (died in 1960) was open about using amphetamines.Quote:
Originally Posted by ny biker
Correction: Seems, at least in the Tour de France, testing started in the late 1960s. Here's an interesting Wikipedia article on this subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_...Tour_de_France
In my view of things, Hamilton and Landis are two losers who used banned substances, lied about it, and then changed their story in search of publicity and monetary gain.
Now, after having told multiple contradictory lies to the world, they once again change their story just to serve some other business interest on their not-so-well-hidden agenda.
What surprises me is the inglorious waste of public funding on a nonsense investigation. This circus should be laid to rest today. Failures like Hamilton and Landis do not deserve the publicity stunt they seek.
We have doping controls. While laboratory tests are of course fallible, it is all we have, and it is all we should use to determine who follows the rules and who does not.
Lance Armstrong won the Tour de France 7 times. He was tested 500+ times in over 20 years, and none of those tests resulted positive.
Evidence speaks for itself.
sigh...
let's just go riding for our own enjoyment. And let the Monday morning quarterbacks bicker over hearsay.
IT seems that this is a discussion that will go on for many more years, and unlikely will. AS Margo mentioned, I do believe that this interview came out AFTER everything else. Whether Tyler writes a book or not is not the issue, at least to me,and I would dare say that he won't be the last to write about this.:rolleyes:
Do I think that Lance doped? Yes, unfortunately I do.. I truly don't believe that the human body can do what he has after the whole cancer ordeal. Do I think that he has given millions of people hope with his riding? Absolutely!
I think that many pro cyclists have done what they felt they needed to do in the sport for many years, and whether it's something we believe or not, it has broken all of our hearts. However, the future is looking brighter all the time. The argument that the governement has wasted all of these funds in researching this case to begin with is absolutely crazy. If Lance is found guilty(along with other team members) do you realize that the US government helped fund this? Do you realize that it was our tax dollars that helped create this amazing legend that might just be based on a series of lies? The entire situation is something that turns my stomach, and I only hope that the truth comes out so that we can MOVE on.
Let's celebrate the athletes who are truly wonderful role models, great cyclists and even more important people with big hearts... there are LOTS of them out there!:o
http://chasecyclery.blogspot.com
Amen!Quote:
Originally Posted by smilingcat
I will, however, just add that if all of you think this is only happening in the Pro ranks, I am here to tell you that is absolutely false. Even the amateurs are doing what they feel they need to do to win, sadly.
And RideBikeME has it right - ultimately this isn't about whether or not Lance doped, but whether a federal agencies money (US Postal Service) was used to fund a doping program.
SheFly
I believed Tyler at least at one point in time; and I believed Floyd, too. Only to be sorely disappointed.
I do not give a rat's rear end if Lance did dope... looking at all those who are now "coming clean," it appears that everyone at that level of professional cycling was doing it at the time, too. Many still are. In other sports (baseball, basketball, fooball), the doping is much more blatant, more intrusive, and far more easily winked at. And those guys aren't just doing EPO, either.
No mention that these riders (Hincapie and Hamilton) have been subpoenaed by a Federal Grand Jury? That doesn't give you a whole lot of options..... ie, it's not optional. Maybe the interview was, but if things are as these say they are... it will all come out eventually and it's going to be nasty. Either way, you are going down. If it were me I'd probably do a deal to, to not spend years in jail.
I support these guys. If the feds have subpoenaed you, they've got the dope so to speak, and there's no going back; no getting out of it, no more covering up. I'm actually surprised that it's taking so long to come. I also don't think they were trying to throw LA under the bus... on the contrary, I felt like it was very clear that, "hey, this was ALL of us".
Maybe now the chance will come to have two separate tours. A clean one and a doped one.
I don't usually read Bicycling, but this month Lance was on the cover. There is an interesting chart of the top 10 finishers for the years Lance won. If Lance was stripped of the title, there are only 2 years where there was another cyclist in the top three that wasn't caught doping. So then what?
The Federal grand jury thing is exactly what makes me think that Tyler's 60 Minutes interview was truthful. If he lies to the grand jury and is discovered, he loses his immunity. If he says one thing to the grand jury and another thing to 60 Minutes, it calls into question his testimony and jeopardizes his immunity. The only safe course of action was to tell the truth to both parties, or risk jail time.
All that said, fool me twice, shame on me.....