$ gas prices = WOW!

The current situation with gas prices has really got me thinking seriously about parking my suv and pedaling for transportation anywhere possible.

I have kicked the idea around before of commuting to my gyms where I teach...

Prior to the gas going up, it was simply for the fact of keeping down my slight resentment factor that I'm stuck inside using my energy, when I'd rather be riding soley outside. But, alas I'm getting paid, and luckily there are those people who prefer inside riding only so I thus have a job (yay be happy, right?! :rolleyes::o).

I figure if I commuted to teach class, I could get my outside fix and tag it onto my indoor exertion. It's just my routes to get there suck:(...

If you have ever heard the saying "you can't get there from here", well, that's my route. The road is in the county, no berm to get off on, and very busy. I wanna ride, but I don't wanna be road kill either.

Just pushin a G note to fill up with gas = yikes:eek:.

The amusing thing to me is that the US gets the vast majority of its imported gasoline from Canada.

Yet the difficulty in Libya has raised our gas prices to $4/gal in my neighborhood.

I call "B.S." on the oil companies. But like any addict, I have nowhere else to turn but my dealer... so he can raise prices all he wants for whatever reason he wants. I'll pay, man, just gimme my fix!!!!!

Biodiesel and bikes are my options if I want to get out of their profiteering clutches.

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

The amusing thing to me is that the US gets the vast majority of its imported gasoline from Canada.

Yet the difficulty in Libya has raised our gas prices to $4/gal in my neighborhood.

I call "B.S." on the oil companies. But like any addict, I have nowhere else to turn but my dealer... so he can raise prices all he wants for whatever reason he wants. I'll pay, man, just gimme my fix!!!!!

Biodiesel and bikes are my options if I want to get out of their profiteering clutches.

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Omg, IKR?! Ugh... what to do. The first sign of trouble, boom, next thing ya know that price on the gas station sign changes.

We bought our suv when gas was very low. It gave us more towing capacity for our camper. Also, we just paid the suv off. So nice to be a car payment free household atm.

I have changed my traveling habits since the prices have gone up. I limit, combine, or simply just don't go at all, where I used to. Too much money.

Sympathy from here. We're paying the British equivalent of over $10/gallon here - our gallons are slightly bigger than yours but you get the picture. My bikes have gone from being purely for recreation to doing a large share of nursery transport and errands as most of my journeys are less than 5miles long round trip. I thought that the routes were too busy to cycle initially but have found some better ones.

So I'm voting with my wallet and using less fuel. Perhaps if their revenue drops the more they increase prices then they'll get the message. Our government made a big song and dance about decreasing fuel prices by shifting more of the tax burden to the oil companies when oil prices are high, but all this has done is mightily annoy the oil companies. It's the oil companies who set the prices at the pump anyway, and they are simply refusing to pass on any reduction in duty set by the government. Bah.

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Originally Posted by Miranda

I have kicked the idea around before of commuting to my gyms where I teach...

I figure if I commuted to teach class, I could get my outside fix and tag it onto my indoor exertion. It's just my routes to get there suck:(...

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I hear ya! I just rode my gym route last Friday, but man, it's a backbreaker! It's got a couple of super-steep climbs out of the river valley, and no alternate way around. I'm not sure that I could actually do anything once I got there, and then there's the issue of a safe place to lock up.... :(

I just plan my trips more accordingly. My car is not a gas guzzler (it's average), but I *know* I drive a lot less than my friends. True, we mostly take DH's car on the weekends, but I often think of my friends who go driving all over, to say, Costco, to buy grocery type items at a cheaper price. Costco is about 12 miles away. Why don't they just save the gas $ and shop locally?
Truthfully, I think people in the US are spoiled when it comes to gas prices. The prices in Europe have always been high, hence the use of alternative transportation and lifestyles that support it. Or, people pay when they need to drive.
I am having a hard time justifying looking for jobs that will require a long commute. There are jobs out there, but, it's a sticking point for me. I want to use my education, but....

I really don't mind the gas prices, I know that a lot of people pay a lot more. We have just been spoiled in the US.

In the summer, I save a lot of money cause I ride my 125 scooter to work and to tennis, etc. when I can. It gets around 85 miles per gallon I think. My car sits alot unless I'm off to the grocery store or on a longer trip.

I also occasionally get on the bike to commute so gas prices don't phase me too much. It's much more fun to ride my scooter anyway

I take the train in to work when I can, but I've had a lot of late shifts recently, and DH doesn't want me walking home from the station very late. I'm hoping here in a couple weeks things will improve and I can stop driving in. I don't worry too much about running errands- I combine them all in to one big trip.

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Originally Posted by Crankin

I am having a hard time justifying looking for jobs that will require a long commute. There are jobs out there, but, it's a sticking point for me. I want to use my education, but....

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I hear you on that--not only the gas, but having a long commute is the pits anyway. Who wants to spend a half hour each way stuck in the car and fighting traffic? I've been having to drive up to 45-50 minutes for work (filling in at various nursing homes, few of which are close by) and am really looking forward to the end of that ridiculousness when I start the new job in a month or so. In fact, I just got back from an apartment-hunting trip to the new town and the place I am going to try to get is just under a mile from the hospital so I would be able to walk to work (even better than bike commuting since I can also do it in the winter--biking on slippery roads narrowed by snowbanks just wouldn't work well). The town also has all the everyday stuff (grocery store, bank etc.) within easy biking distance, so I will be using a lot less gas there than I am now.

That sounds wonderful, Jolt. I have one option for bike commuting; the clinic by Emerson Hospital. I have a contact there, but we've been playing phone tag for weeks. I just need to find out the name of the hiring person; another reason I want to work there is that it's a fee for service job, can do flexible hours, which is important at this stage in my life. Most new grads can't do this (no benefits), but I prefer it. A lot of the things I see would require a 45 minute drive or an hour on public transportation and are 40 hours a week, which = no time for riding. Right now, my internship in Lowell is between 25 and 40 minutes, no real traffic. That's OK. That's about my limit.

I will have to fill up my car today, but it will be the first time this month so that's okay. It's a fairly efficient little car, which makes a huge difference. I also work from home, so I don't commute. I've re-started my efforts to do all trips under five miles by bicycle. Luckily, I live near everything I need, so that's easy.

I worked in the DC area for six years. Even though I lived 14 miles from my work, I was able to commute by bicycle three times a week year round. Most of the other days I took the Metro, but that took longer than the bike.

If I ever have to get a job that requires a commute again, you can be sure that it will be with an organization that is bicycle friendly and within a decent bicycle commuting route. Otherwise, I simply won't take the job. I've said "no thanks" to a job offer before because it was not bike-friendly. Not everyone is willing to make that choice, though.

Best of luck on figuring out how to make your commute better, Miranda. I've found that there usually are other routes that are more bike friendly, but it just might take some time to work them out. I hope you can do that where you live.

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Originally Posted by hebe

Sympathy from here. We're paying the British equivalent of over $10/gallon here - our gallons are slightly bigger than yours but you get the picture.

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Originally Posted by spokewench

I really don't mind the gas prices, I know that a lot of people pay a lot more. We have just been spoiled in the US.

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ITA, spokewench. I used to go to Denmark pretty regularly for work and I was astonished at what they paid. People, gas in the US is still extremely cheap compared to what people pay in Europe and probably the rest of the world. Of course, the cost of fuel in the US is very heavily subsidized. Our tax dollars at work. :rolleyes:

(Not that I don't sympathize, it's still a big shock to the pocketbook, subsidized or not!)

So US folks, next time some lardazz yahoo in a 10mpg monster SUV rolls up next to you and starts screaming about getting off his road (as if, just because you happen to be on a bike you're not paying your "fair share" of taxes, wtf?), just remember your tax dollars are helping to foot the bill for that jerkoff's gasoline. Awesome, eh?

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

The amusing thing to me is that the US gets the vast majority of its imported gasoline from Canada.

Yet the difficulty in Libya has raised our gas prices to $4/gal in my neighborhood.

I call "B.S." on the oil companies. But like any addict, I have nowhere else to turn but my dealer... so he can raise prices all he wants for whatever reason he wants. I'll pay, man, just gimme my fix!!!!!

Biodiesel and bikes are my options if I want to get out of their profiteering clutches.

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Well, I've often wondered why we have to pay so much (currently $1.37/L, which is approx. $5.48/gal) when we have our own oil. From what I hear, our oil isn't as refined as the ones in Libya, etc. But that could just be more ka-ka we're fed to believe something.

We have a split reaction to the rising gas prices in our house. I have to commute 30 miles for one of my jobs (though only two days a week) so I feel the price, but on the other hand my partner works in a bike shop and when gas goes up, so does business (and overtime). So in the end we're ok with either.

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Originally Posted by badger

Well, I've often wondered why we have to pay so much (currently $1.37/L, which is approx. $5.48/gal) when we have our own oil. From what I hear, our oil isn't as refined as the ones in Libya, etc. But that could just be more ka-ka we're fed to believe something.

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I didn't realize prices were that much higher in Canada than the US. But if you take into account the fact that US gas is heavily subsidized, then I suppose it does make sense. In the US, we pony up the difference on April 15.

Muirenn- that's CRAZY! So silly to not let you come on base by foot or two wheels. If they're worried about security- I'm thinking someone on foot or on a bike is a whole lot more transparent than someone in a car with a trunk to hide things in. :rolleyes: How dumb!

Two years ago I took a job (with a pretty good pay cut) that is 2 miles from my house (3 by bike). It was worth it to me to not have to be in my car for 1.5 hours a day and drive 60 miles just for work daily. I made the sacrifice because I was sick of being in my car that much. We cut back things like cable, excess spending, etc and made it work. We also spend less money on filling the car up- so the pay cut didn't hurt quite as bad.
Not everyone can do that, and that's OK. I'm glad that we could make it work. I'm MUCH less stressed and much happier being able to ride to work.

Now I do almost everything by bike. I fill the car up about every 3 weeks. My DH has his choice of two cars now (they are both paid off and are 11+ years old). I hope to eventually get rid of one of them, but he's not too keen on that idea. I'm working *really* hard to get him to see it would be OK to be a one-car couple, even though we have no public transportation. I mean- the furthest I'm going to get "stuck" from home would be a max of 10 miles- and I'm in good enough shape that if I had to walk that far- I could do so easily. ;)

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Originally Posted by spokewench

I really don't mind the gas prices, I know that a lot of people pay a lot more. We have just been spoiled in the US.

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I wouldn't mind it so much if some of this increase were in taxes going into state and federal coffers. Instead, it's going into oil company pockets (and their speculating stock holders). If taxes were indexed to the cost of a gallon of gas, imagine all the infrastructure we could improve with increased revenue. :rolleyes:

Ugh. I used to live in walking distance to my job. As I've indicated in other threads (so forgive me for repeating myself), I moved almost two years ago when I got married to a town that's about 25 miles away from my office. DH's job is about 25 miles away in the opposite direction, so we picked a theoretical middle ground. I hate the commute even when gas prices are low. There's no safe route to take by bike, although I just read an article in our local paper that one is in the works. So, too, is a plan for light rail service.

I'm not sure how excited I am about the possibility of commuting by bike. Fifty miles of bike commute each day is probably more than I can really handle on a regular basis. More importantly, I'm not impressed yet with the city's bike lanes. They plan to link my town to downtown along some extremely busy roads that I already travel by car with a fair amount of trepidation. I'm not sure I'd feel particularly safe on a bike, nor would it be a relaxing commute by country road. I am, however, a huge fan of the light rail option. I'd be all over that and would gladly pay more in taxes to help make it happen.

I am set up to work from home, but my boss has never really led me to believe that he's a fan of it. Other members of our staff work from home at least once a week, but I get the feeling that my boss wants me here most days. I understand that. If prices go much higher, though, I may pursue the idea of working from home very selectively here and there.

Neither one of us has a desire at the moment to change jobs, so that's relatively non-negotiable for the time being. He works for one of the largest engine manufacturers in the world, and he really loves what he does. I work for a federal court in a position that, not only do I really love, but is almost impossible to replicate in either the private sector or at a state/county level.

I agree we've been spoiled compared to outside the US. I might try to commute by bike a day or two a week. I have about 19 miles from work, and I work 630a-5p(I work 4 - 10s). Otherwise, I don't drive alot, just to work, shopping is within a 5 mile radius.

I was a senior in college in 2001. The price of gasoline in our area more than doubled that year, and my college-student budget had no room for expansion. These days, my husband and I have a nice household income, so the current gas price increases don't hurt nearly as much.

Coming into financial independence just as gas prices were starting to take off means that I have always made housing/work decisions with gasoline in mind. We bought a house that is well-served by public transit, and we share one car without hardship (and that car gets 45 MPG). Haven't really noticed any effect of the current gasoline prices on our budget. I feel sorry for those who are hurting financially because of the price of gas.

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Originally Posted by Tri Girl

I hope to eventually get rid of one of them, but he's not too keen on that idea. I'm working *really* hard to get him to see it would be OK to be a one-car couple, even though we have no public transportation.

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To demonstrate to my husband that we could ditch one car, I parked it for a month and got around by other means. I also pointed out to him that we live near a number of car rental counters (we also have carshare available) and that for the 13 days I had needed to drive so far that year, I had spent ~$2000 in car maintenance - WAY more than the cost to rent! Laying out some hard numbers really helped convince him.

Great discussion, peeps. Thanks for chiming in:cool:.

DH has a 45min drive to his office. Our other vehicles are older and paid off as well. I know he is wanting to get another new one. But, gheez mileage and gas, I'm not excited about it. Trying to hold that one off lol:rolleyes:.

Thanks for the input on the commuting. Well, my new xc bike is the one I considering riding. It still has xc type tires on it atm. I've looked at the busy road trying to figure out if I could off road it. But, some of it is yards of homeowners. That's destine to just piss off chasing dogs more.

Hmm, I'm gonna hafta look and see if I could ride an epic route of some sort. I've looked so many times. The other good thing for me is that I'm going to teach class. So, being sweaty is ok. I worry if I got a flat I would miss class. Not good. But, hopefully that's a remote statistic.

Our area is so bike unfriendly. If I ever moved, I'd def be looking for a bike friendly town.

We're fortunate now to live in a walkable, bikeable community that has many amenities nice and close, and we're close to public transportation as well. So, since moving here last June, my DH sold his truck, and we became a one-car household. I already worked from home once a week, and recently started taking the bus to work twice a week as well. I still drive in (11 miles each way) a couple of times a week so I can leave earlier and get in a bike ride, but our gas purchasing has gone WAY down.

My DH is retired so is able to bike, walk, or take the bus everywhere.

On weekends and my work from home day, our goal is always not to drive at all. We can't always do this if we have a party to go to in the next town or some such, but very often we achieve our goal by cycling, walking, and taking the bus wherever we need to go. We also get a lot of free entertainment hanging out with other people in our apt. complex, taking our dog outside to play with their dogs, and just taking walks around the neighborhood.

I only have to fill up the car about 1 to 1.5 times a month. Used to be 4-5x a month when we lived way out in a rural area.

So, higher gas prices aren't affecting us at all. In fact, in some ways it's a good thing if it gets more people riding, walking, and taking public transportation.

Like many of you, we're a one car house, mass transit and bike commuters as much as possible, so not so affected by the gas prices. But, the price of everything else impacted by the high gas prices, especially food, is really noticeable. Bread is crazy expensive. Many bakeries are going out of business. I assume it's becoming impossible to make a profit from a small bakery. It's sad that the lesser quality ones seem to be more profitable, more able to survive high energy and supply costs. I know, I should start baking my own bread. I'm nearing that point.

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Originally Posted by redrhodie

I know, I should start baking my own bread. I'm nearing that point.

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I've been supporting a local restaurant that bakes fabulous bread (they sell it in their cafe). For that reason, I'm not baking my own right now.

I can't remember if you were a participant in the Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes threads here, but I can't recommend that highly enough when you're ready to get started baking:)

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Originally Posted by Blueberry

I've been supporting a local restaurant that bakes fabulous bread (they sell it in their cafe). For that reason, I'm not baking my own right now.

I can't remember if you were a participant in the Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes threads here, but I can't recommend that highly enough when you're ready to get started baking:)

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I couldn't even read that thread, the pictures were just too yummy. I did not participate, but I think I might start. I actually like baking, and even have time to do it, but haven't worked with yeast very much. I think that's my block.

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Originally Posted by redrhodie

Bread is crazy expensive. Many bakeries are going out of business. I assume it's becoming impossible to make a profit from a small bakery.

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That's where the advantage to living in a city or town comes in. Folks can walk to their local bakery, supporting a local business and keeping their neighbors employed and keeping their local community vibrant - and save themselves the price of gas.

The big corporate bakeries ship bread to big stores, adding one more link in the oil chain. The store wants to maximize its profits, so buys the cheapest bread that can be shipped. The larger bakeries win with their cheaper bread that can dilute the cost of shipping.

We have a lot of independent bakeries that do counter sales. They also sell bread to the independent grocery stores. (Wal-Mart is not allowed within the city limits, thank goodness!) I can walk into my neighborhood market and find products from at least 4 local bakeries. One independent store in walking distance has its own bakery, but still sells stuff from local bakeries as well. I can walk to 2 free-standing bakeries easily (I'm not counting the one inside the independent grocery store... that would be 3).

Cheap bread may take less money from my pocket, but it is devastatingly expensive to my community and my quality of life.

"Keep it Small, Keep it Local."

Many of us are not in a position to commute to work for a host of logistical reasons, but for those who can't, consider all the other short trips you can eliminate in your life and still save a fortune.

A DOT study indicates that 50% of trips are three miles or less

My car normally gets 25-30mpg, but on a three mile trip, it averages 10mpg because it never warms up. So, if my math is right, I break-even on the cost of a commuter if I eliminate about 300 short trips... That sounds like a lot until I realize that I have two grocery stores, 4 drug stores, 1 Target, 1 K-Mart, 1 post office, 1 mall, at least 16 fast foods, 3 bookstores, 3 Starbucks, and 1 COLDSTONE within an easy three mile radius of my house...so it's less than 1/day for a year.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Bloom

A DOT study indicates that 50% of trips are three miles or less

My car normally gets 25-30mpg, but on a three mile trip, it averages 10mpg because it never warms up. So, if my math is right, I break-even on the cost of a commuter if I eliminate about 300 short trips... That sounds like a lot until I realize that I have two grocery stores, 4 drug stores, 1 Target, 1 K-Mart, 1 post office, 1 mall, at least 16 fast foods, 3 bookstores, 3 Starbucks, and 1 COLDSTONE within an easy three mile radius of my house...so it's less than 1/day for a year.

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I like the way you think, Mr.!:D
Since most of our trips are short- that's the best way to eliminate your dependence on the car. You can use the car for work and still save buckets worth of cash AND be doing something healthy for you and the planet.
It may take longer to get my bike ready than to just grab the keys, but I've never once regretted riding my bike instead of driving. Bikes are great- but we all know that here. :p
Now if I could just get my city to put bike racks out so I could stop locking my bike to signposts... ;)

I was just talking with co-workers how EVERYTHING is so darn expensive here in Canada, it's not even funny. I went down stateside last weekend and stocked up on groceries - bread is still dirt cheap there! $2.99 for an Ezekiel loaf that costs us $7 up here.

A lot of things defies simple logic, as our dollar is actually stronger than the US dollar right now, but I also know we're taxed to death on everything. The same $5 bottle of wine is $17 up here. Same with our gas, it's taxed, taxed, and then taxed some more. One of the taxes is for our public transit system; I wouldn't feel bad in paying it if we actually had a decent system, but it's apalling. They increase fees all the time, cut routes, and they often go "missing" and end up having to wait longer for the next bus. For some people the high cost to use transit is actually poor incentive to leave cars at home; it's actually cheaper to drive.

Gas prices = grrrrrrrrrr!

I drive a car that gets good mileage but it's a poke up the road to visit my family. I can bike to work if the weather cooperates but these gas prices still get my goat!

I like many others can't commute for work. After the last time gas went up rediculously high I cut out as much driving as possible and have tried to stick to that as best I can. With my work I can do some of my shopping after I'm finished working since I do do some work in grocery stores, drug stores, and dollar stores. So that does help. We just bought a home and are in the process of moving in. I don't think we'll get much out of a graden this year, but are planning on one for next year. I did get my blueberry bushes planted inthe ground instead of keeping them in pots, so hopefully by next summer we'll have some blueberries. We also bought two strawberry bushes (on sale at Lowe's for half price) which are also planted. Hopefully that will be a good start.
Also I'm considering after we get some debt (credit card) paid off, looking into getting solar pannels installed on our new home. No HOA to worry about, and there are about a dozen homes in the neighborhood with solar pannels.

Koronin, solar panels are all well and good, but you'll get alot more bang for your buck if you spend your money on really good insulation. Get a blower door test and find a really good insulating contractor who will look at everything and install it properly.

* * *

I filled up my little car today for $47. Since I usually fill up once a month or so, it's not a hardship for me, but if I had to do it every few days, I would have a problem.

tulip, thanks for the tip. One of my thoughts on the solar panels is that eventually getting an electric car that I can use for around town trips and merchandising and by having solar panels that I won't be paying the electric company to charge my car. (Yes I'm sure it's a crazy idea, but it something I've thought about). The only real problem with that is my trips to Wilmington for work and my once a month route of stores out of town may be a bit too far for an electric car at least at this point. I know the trips to Wilmington are out of range for all electric cars except the Tesla electric sports car that I can't afford anyway. We're talking around 60 miles each way, plus whatever driving I have to do there and the electric cars are way too small (no storage space) for everything I'd need to lug with me. But for my regular jobs they could definitely work.

I have mixed feelings about the rise in gas prices. My father is an engineer for a large oil company and rising prices means he keeps his job (or his benefits once he retires). In three weeks I'm moving to a town that is heavily dependent on oil for its economy - so right now it's booming so bad there's a housing shortage. So really, so far in my life, rising gas and oil prices have always signaled better times for me and my family.

One thing I have noticed is that many whom have commented so far on this thread that commute to work frequently or run errands on their bikes with regularity, live in a place where the climate can support that kind of thing. Where I am moving it's already averaging temperature in the upper 90s and they've even had a day that was 102 (admittedly, my whole state is literally on fire right now, so that doesn't help). Where I am now it's in the low 90s to upper 80s but the humidity is typically 90%+. My new town is the dry desert (thank goodness). Even so, I will live ~3 miles from my job and I am hesitant about commuting. I can't even do it here. It's not because of traffic and it's not because there are unsafe routes, but rather it's so hot here that I would be a sweaty, disgusting mess when I arrived. And I work with people all day in a highly professional setting, so this would not be okay (and no shower option at work). So I typically drive the very short distance to work and to all my errands close by because I simply cannot live without a/c! I am so glad that I am fortunate enough that I will have a career that pays better than average and I will be able to support my love of hot weather and still afford the fuel I need to stay comfortable.

westtexas, I understand the weather issues, as I used to live in AZ. And now that I live in a 4 season climate, I don't ride once the snow is on the ground. But, a lot of people do. Everyone has different tolerance for riding in weather. But, you can commute without showers, if you want to. I did, and I also was expected to look "professional" on the job. It just takes planning. I would bring all of my clothes to work for the 2 days I commuted on Monday. I had all of my hygiene supplies at work. I took a shower before leaving and rode slower than usual (heck, it was 5:45 in the AM). When I got to work, I would check email and get my stuff out while I cooled down. Then, I would go into the rest room, wash my face and totally wet my hair, which is very short. The important parts would get washed with either a facecloth and soap, or a bath cloth, which is like a giant baby wipe and is heated in the microwave. Then I would get dressed, put gel in my hair and do my make up. I don't think anyone would say I looked unprofessional.
I also think there's much more of a car culture in the sun belt states. People tend to live far away from services and don't walk anywhere. When I first graduated from college, I lived near downtown Tempe; I used to ride my bike to do errands and walk places, despite the temperatures. I did it early in the AM or evening. And that was when no one rode bikes anywhere!

Westtexas, you shouldn't feel a need to apologize or explain. In fact, that's why many cities and employers are moving toward installation of commuter hubs with showers, lockers, etc.

But, consider how hot your car is when you get in it. When i lived in Memphis, i would be a hot sweaty mess before the A/C cooled off in my 200 degree car. While i wouldn't be sweaty when i arrived, i often smelled like I was ... And everyone else did too:eek:

When I think of commuting, I think in the same context as a roadie...fast, hot, sweaty, dirty, etc...Commuters don't necessarily think that way...

Having said all this, I haven't worked out a way to consistently commute yet, but I think I'm close:D and it still involves me working in my characteristic grey suit, starched shirts, and stripped ties

ETA: high prices are ultimately a win/win: high prices bring stable employment to the oil economy, but also enhance the viability of alternatives. If we look at this in terms of decades, I do believe high prices are ultimately beneficial even if the short term pain is extreme in the transition...

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Originally Posted by Mr. Bloom

ETA: high prices are ultimately a win/win: high prices bring stable employment to the oil economy, but also enhance the viability of alternatives. If we look at this in terms of decades, I do believe high prices are ultimately beneficial even if the short term pain is extreme in the transition...

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I agree completely that higher prices enhance the viability of alternatives. I think the point about bringing stable employment to the oil economy is good if you are in a region or industry directly related to oil. What we are seeing in the bulk of the UK however is the situation where families are spending more on fuel than on food. I think something over 60% of what we pay for every litre goes directly to the Treasury in taxes, so the govenment is certainly not losing out, despite its notional drops in duty. As oil prices continue to rise we are looking downstream at higher public transport fares, and are already seeing higher prices for both food and non-food items - those that are derived from oil are costing more to make, and they are all costing more to transport. In the midst of joblosses, pay-freezes and ongoing austerity measures it is sadly difficult to see higher oil prices as an entirely good thing. Much as I enjoy seeing literally scores more cyclists on the road as both petrol prices and temperatures climb.

This thread has been both interesting and educating. I'd never have known that US fuel was so much cheaper because of tax dollar subsidies.

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Originally Posted by hebe

This thread has been both interesting and educating. I'd never have known that US fuel was so much cheaper because of tax dollar subsidies.

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Sorry if what I said was misleading; all I know is that gas companies do get very large tax breaks and subsidies from the US gov't. Whether that is actually why the cost of gas is lower in the US than in the rest of the world, I have nary a clue. :o

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Originally Posted by hebe

I'd never have known that US fuel was so much cheaper because of tax dollar subsidies.

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Contrary to what some have implied (but not supported), this is not true. There are no subsidies to oil any different from other businesses in the US or elsewhere under standard accounting rules and normal standards of determining taxable income. Example: some say it's a subsidy to allow an oil company to expense their exploration costs (thereby reducing their taxable income)...but they don't make that same argument saying a technology company is subsidized when they expense their R & D. In the same way, allowing an oil company to use a highway built for the general welfare and use of others is not a subsidy...but some wrongly argue it is.

Differences in gas prices in different countries are more heavily influenced by taxes, refining capacity, distribution network, and shipping costs.

Eta: I was typing while jobob was posting...I appreciate her clarification

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Bloom

Contrary to what some have implied (but not supported), this is not true. There are no subsidies to oil any different from other businesses in the US or elsewhere under standard accounting rules and normal standards of determining taxable income. Example: some say it's a subsidy to allow an oil company to expense their exploration costs (thereby reducing their taxable income)...but they don't make that same argument saying a technology company is subsidized when they expense their R & D. In the same way, allowing an oil company to use a highway built for the general welfare and use of others is not a subsidy...but some wrongly argue it is.

Differences in gas prices in different countries are more heavily influenced by taxes, refining capacity, distribution network, and shipping costs.

Eta: I was typing while jobob was posting...I appreciate her clarification

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In addition to this, we must all remember that the oil companies we routinely buy gasoline from in the US (Shell, Exxon, Chevron, etc.) control a VERY small portion of the world's oil supply. They have very little influence over the final end dollar amount of a barrel of oil and thus our prices at the pump.

I remember a few years ago when prices rose a dollar in a few weeks and everyone was talking about the prices like we are now. On Facebook, there was a huge "group" that claimed we should boycott all Exxon stations for one day to make them lower the prices. My father told me that Exxon (one of the largest companies) controls about 3% of the world share of oil and that boycotting their company (or even all the major companies in the US) would effectively do nothing.

It's just interesting to think about how small the consumer is in all of this.