WSD or not. What's a short girl to do???

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10-26-2010, 10:34 AM
JuneHawk

WSD or not. What's a short girl to do???

I'll start by saying that I'm not quite 5'2" and had a horrible experience with a bike shop and the way too small, but very nice, bike they sold me earlier this month. I'm in the process of buying a new bike and dang, I want a good fit this time.

I went to two shops today at the recommendation of one of the captains of the local team. At the first shop, the guy measured my inseams but refused to give me a specific frame size since he
insisted it would vary from brand to brand. He showed me a very sweet
looking Litespeed C3 size small (2010 or 2009, wasn't sure)on sale for $1900 from $3000. He told me if he changed the components to 105 (it comes with Ultegra) the price would come down to $1400 (closer to my budget). Like I said, it's a sweet bike but it's not women specific design. He says it doesn't matter because the the stem can be changed to a shorter or longer one as I need it. He also told me he'd see if he could find me a close out from the manufacturers and that they'd give me up to a month and a half to save for the difference between my today budget and the price of the bike.

At the second store, the guy measured me thoroughly and concluded I take a 47 or 48cm frame. Again, he had very few things in my budget and one of the was out right away since I know I don't like it. He showed me 2011 Cannondale Synapse 6 womens that retails for $1800 but with the discount card I'd pay just over $1500.

There was very little else in that price range. He also told me that
because of my height, I shouldn't even consider non women specific design
bikes. That it was OK to add an inch here or take an inch off there but
that a bike shouldn't have to be rigged to fit correctly and that's
exactly what would have to happen with a mens bike, even if it's 47 or 48cm
bike.

With that conflicting advice about women specific vs not, I don't know
what to do. The Litespeed bike is a better bike by far but that would
mean nothing if it wasn't the right fit. I swear, choosing a husband was
easier!

What do you guys think?
10-26-2010, 10:42 AM
Owlie

It depends on how you're proportioned. WSD bikes are designed for those with long legs and a short torso. If you're evenly proportioned, then a unisex frame is probably a better bet.
10-26-2010, 10:47 AM
JuneHawk

I think I'm fairly evenly proportioned. I just looked at the measurements of both bikes and the difference in the top tube is only 1.5cm.
10-26-2010, 11:02 AM
Owlie

Take both for test rides and see which one feels better. :) 1.5 cm can make a difference.
10-26-2010, 11:06 AM
JuneHawk

I can ride the Cannondale but not the Litespeed, the seat post would have to be cut.
10-26-2010, 11:08 AM
indysteel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owlie

Take both for test rides and see which one feels better. :) 1.5 cm can make a difference.

This.

I, personally, try to not get too fixated on the WSD label. Look at the geometry specs themselves. I have a WSD bike that doesn't really fit the standard for WSD bikes of other brands, so the label itself tells you little.

What's your inseam? While reach is really important, the standover height of some unisex bikes might be your limiting factor. It was for me. I'm 5'4, but have the legs of somebody who's 5'2. In the very least, it helped me figure out what bikes wouldn't work.

Also, what was too small about the bike you got earlier this month? Can you use the specs for that bike to guide you in looking at the specs for other bikes?
10-26-2010, 11:11 AM
JuneHawk

The bike I had before was 40cm. I was too scrunched up the entire time and no talk about going in the drops! It lasted all of 3 weeks.
10-26-2010, 11:12 AM
ny biker

FWIW, my old bike is a 54 cm Trek traditional/men's frame. My new bike is a 54 cm Trek WSD frame. The difference in fit and comfort is huge.

I had the shortest stem possible on the old bike but I was still hunching over and reaching too far in order to reach the hoods. On the WSD bike, I am able to reach the hoods while keeping my shoulders back and my back flat.

I thought the old bike was okay, not perfect but I could deal with it. Until I tried the WSD frame and realized the different geometry made a big difference. The WSD frame also has a smaller handlebar that is better suited to my hands.

I am 5'7" and I thought I didn't need a WSD bike because I have broad shoulders, long arms and what I thought was a long enough torso. I was wrong.
10-26-2010, 11:25 AM
KnottedYet

JuneHawk!!! So good to see you!!!! :D

I'm the same height as NYbiker, but with the exact opposite bike fit: WSD are instruments of misery to me, and regular geometry fit fabulously.

Height alone is never a reason to recommend WSD. A short woman could fit better on WSD (like NYbiker) and another woman the same height might fit better on a regular fit (like me).

Trek420 is a bit shorter than you, and she has had some fine rides on regular fit bikes.

Ride lots of bikes, WSD and regular, ride ones you aren't even considering buying (like a Surly or Kona) ride a couple different sizes in each model. Take a couple weeks of just test rides to get a feel for the geometry your body works best with. Take lots of notes about what feels right and what feels wrong with each bike. A good sales clerk who wants you to get a bike that fits will pay more attention to your notes than to which bikes he needs to move off the sale floor that day.

Did the shop that sold you the 40cm (!!??!!? for someone 5 foot 2!?!?!!?) take it back?
10-26-2010, 11:28 AM
Becky

I would ask the shop to find a shorter seat post that will fit the Litespeed....you shouldn't be expected to buy it without riding it.

I agree with your shop guy that sizes can fluctuate somewhat between brands and models. See if he'll give you a range to consider.

As for WSD: I'm 5'4" with long legs and a short torso. By all accounts I should be the ideal WSD rider. But I have a preference for non-WSD bikes....go figure. I do keep an eye on things like handlebar width and brake and shift lever reach though. Ultimately, it's an individual decision, not some magic formula.

Good luck!
10-26-2010, 11:29 AM
JuneHawk

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnottedYet

JuneHawk!!! So good to see you!!!! :D

I'm the same height as NYbiker, but with the exact opposite bike fit: WSD are instruments of misery to me, and regular geometry fit fabulously.

Height alone is never a reason to recommend WSD. A short woman could fit better on WSD (like NYbiker) and another woman the same height might fit better on a regular fit.

Trek420 is a bit shorter than you, and she has had some fine rides on regular fit bikes.

Ride lots of bikes, ride ones you aren't even considering buying (like a Surly) ride a couple different sizes in each model. Take a couple weeks of just test rides to get a feel for the geometry your body works best with.

Did the shop that sold you the 40cm (!!??!!? for someone 5 foot 2!?!?!!?) take it back?

Yes, yes and yes.

Not being rude, just curious, you seem to know me from somewhere. Where? Do tell!
10-26-2010, 11:32 AM
KnottedYet

I'm one of the folks on Bike Forum who recommended you come try Team Estrogen! :p I'm glad you did!
10-26-2010, 11:34 AM
JuneHawk

Ah, thanks! LOL.
10-26-2010, 11:34 AM
indysteel

40 cm???? OMG; no wonder it didn't fit.

Ride the Cannondale and try to extrapolate from there. If you feel scrunched, then the Litespeed might work. If you feel stretched out on the Cannondale or just about right, then the Litespeed's TT is likely too long for you.

And don't let the shops force you into deciding between just these two bikes. Pour over enough specs, and you'll get some feel for whether other manufacturers will work for you. I cast a very wide net before deciding on my Bianchi. As for certain selling points of WSD bikes, like narrower handlebars, talk to the shop about making swaps if necessary to make a unisex bike work.
10-26-2010, 12:20 PM
zoom-zoom

June, I am only about 1.5" taller than you and ride a Cdale Synapse 5, WSD. In hind sight I now realize I would have fit better on a men's/unisex frame, since I have squatty legs. But the WSD bike has shorter-reach shifters, which works better for my smallish hands.

I am starting to shop for my next ride. I will almost certainly stick with Cannondale, since it's the primary brand our shop carries, without spending a ton more on a "niche" brand or custom. This time around I am looking at the same size frame (48cm), but SRAM Rival components. SRAM's shifters are all adjustable reach, so that solves the hand-size issue.

Any idea what your inseam (crotch to floor) is? You may do better on a WSD, but you may do well on a unisex bike, too, especially if you have a longer torso, like me.
10-26-2010, 12:38 PM
spokewench

It really is hard to tell if you need a Women Specific design or not. I am 5'4" and have never had a wsd, and am perfectly happy with the bike that I have. I do not have a short waist so all my men's frames have worked for me. Sometimes, you have to work with them, i.e. swapping out stem heighths and lengths and types of handlebars, reach on brakes, and length of cranks, but I have always been happy once I have them dialed in.
10-26-2010, 12:43 PM
JuneHawk

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

June, I am only about 1.5" taller than you and ride a Cdale Synapse 5, WSD. In hind sight I now realize I would have fit better on a men's/unisex frame, since I have squatty legs. But the WSD bike has shorter-reach shifters, which works better for my smallish hands.

I am starting to shop for my next ride. I will almost certainly stick with Cannondale, since it's the primary brand our shop carries, without spending a ton more on a "niche" brand or custom. This time around I am looking at the same size frame (48cm), but SRAM Rival components. SRAM's shifters are all adjustable reach, so that solves the hand-size issue.

Any idea what your inseam (crotch to floor) is? You may do better on a WSD, but you may do well on a unisex bike, too, especially if you have a longer torso, like me.

73cm or so.
10-26-2010, 12:50 PM
zoom-zoom

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuneHawk

73cm or so.

It would be close, but I think maybe doable. Sounds like you also have a long torso. I'm not convinced that a WSD is going to be better for you. Standover for both the men's and women's Synapse 6 is the same (72.1). If they were too big you'd have to go down to a 44, which only comes in WSD. But then I wonder if you'd be cramped in terms of reach.

And those both come with SRAM Apex, which means you wouldn't even need "women's" short-reach components.
10-26-2010, 12:55 PM
Catrin

My first bike was a Trek WSD design, and it was just too long for me. Perhaps if they had made it a size smaller it would have worked, but the proportions did not work out right. My beautiful steel steed is not a WSD design and while we did have an expensive conversion to fit it to me, it had nothing to do with the reach. In that department the bike fit me fine.

I am 5'3" in my stocking feet and, at least so far, mens/unisex frames have fit me best if I can find one small enough. I am long-legged for my height but my arms do not seem to be all that short. There are differences in how different manufacturer's measure their frame sizes though, nothing replaces test rides if at all possible. That can be a challenge sometimes, but nothing replaces testing them out.
10-26-2010, 01:17 PM
JuneHawk

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

It would be close, but I think maybe doable. Sounds like you also have a long torso. I'm not convinced that a WSD is going to be better for you. Standover for both the men's and women's Synapse 6 is the same (72.1). If they were too big you'd have to go down to a 44, which only comes in WSD. But then I wonder if you'd be cramped in terms of reach.

And those both come with SRAM Apex, which means you wouldn't even need "women's" short-reach components.

I think the sticking point is whether I should go with the Synapse WSD or the Litespeed C3.

Sight. I think I will go back and have the second shop owner build the Synapse they had in size so I can ride it and see how it feels.
10-26-2010, 02:50 PM
Cataboo

I'm 5'1-5'2. I don't ride wsd bikes because they are too short in the top tube for me. I have a longer torso or longer legs or something. I know at least two women the same height as me that have longer legs - they ride wsds.

the geometry of that litespeed would work for me - one of my bikes is a litespeed.

But you're really just going to have to test ride the bikes!
10-26-2010, 04:15 PM
Laguna

Of course stand-over height is important but if there is one dimension that is "most important", it is top tube length. If that dimension if off then you will have the never ending battle of moving your saddle all the way forward or all the way back and/or having to ride a super short stem that will throw off balance and handling.

I know it is very hard to find many bikes in stock that you can ride. Stores just don't stock lots of 44cm, 48cm bikes. And at 5'2" I'm betting that is where you will end up. Get all your dimensions, do your web homework and then be willing to drive to some non-local shops if you have to. Or, try to attend some larger bike rides or events where you might have a chance to ride or at least straddle someone elses bike.

Have you tried the XXS or XS Giant yet? How about a Terry? Be willing to consider 650c wheels if you need to, they are not the disability some people think they are.

Last, Georgina Terry has a great podcast and there are two programs that may interst you. If you don't download MP3 files you can just click and listen on their site. Check out "Small Things Considered" and also "Buying a Bike-The Bike Shop Experience.

http://www.terrybicycles.com/podcast/page/2

I'm a short guy and finding a bike that fits has been a battle for 30+ years. Good luck, have patience and do a regular search of Craigslist for your state and even nearby states if you are willing to drive.
10-26-2010, 05:00 PM
JuneHawk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laguna

Of course stand-over height is important but if there is one dimension that is "most important", it is top tube length. If that dimension if off then you will have the never ending battle of moving your saddle all the way forward or all the way back and/or having to ride a super short stem that will throw off balance and handling.

I know it is very hard to find many bikes in stock that you can ride. Stores just don't stock lots of 44cm, 48cm bikes. And at 5'2" I'm betting that is where you will end up. Get all your dimensions, do your web homework and then be willing to drive to some non-local shops if you have to. Or, try to attend some larger bike rides or events where you might have a chance to ride or at least straddle someone elses bike.

Have you tried the XXS or XS Giant yet? How about a Terry? Be willing to consider 650c wheels if you need to, they are not the disability some people think they are.

Last, Georgina Terry has a great podcast and there are two programs that may interst you. If you don't download MP3 files you can just click and listen on their site. Check out "Small Things Considered" and also "Buying a Bike-The Bike Shop Experience.

http://www.terrybicycles.com/podcast/page/2

I'm a short guy and finding a bike that fits has been a battle for 30+ years. Good luck, have patience and do a regular search of Craigslist for your state and even nearby states if you are willing to drive.

WOW, it's a small world. I looked up Kerry Litka and she posts on a sewing website I frequent! I follow her pattern reviews. I had no idea. LOL
10-26-2010, 05:03 PM
JuneHawk

The Terry Tailwind looks nice. Shame there are no Terry dealers around here.
10-26-2010, 06:30 PM
Koronin

I know what you are dealing with. I'm 5 ft tall and trying to find a bike with a standover height I can actually use is extremely difficult. So far the only ones I've found are Trek and Specialized. Although I have not actually test ridden them, I have been able to sit on them. I'm personally more comfortable on the Trek, plus I much prefer the Trek store even if it's a 5 hour drive one way than the Specialized store and I will not buy a bike at the local bike store. Basically what I have found is I can ride a men's 47cm Trek, otherwise due to my height and short legs I have to go with WSD versions. I currently have a 47cm Trek men's bike, but am at the extreme limit. My only complaint of the WSD Trek (Lexi) is I feel I want to be more stretched out. (saddle was not close to being moved all the way back. and it is all the way forward on my current road bike and the handle bars are tipped up pretty good so I can reach them). Although when I buy a new bike I'm going with the Madone and yep driving 5 hours each way to get it. LOL.

edited to add: I do not feel scrunched up, just feel that I need to be a bit more stretched out, and that may be due to what I am used to with my current bike, which I bought used.
10-26-2010, 07:14 PM
colorisnt

JuneHawk,

I am only a couple of inches shorter, but I do have a WSD trek (47 cm). 40!!! That's sad. I suggest finding a shop that does pro-fits. Even if you have to drive a bit, it is totally worth it.

I have had both and find that my extremely tiny hands and short arms are better accommodated by a WSD frame. I do have long legs and no torso,though, so IDK. If you are built oppositely (longer in the torso), it probably won't fit.

My Dad who is 5'4 and a half can't even do the standover/stem height on my bike. He has a Trek commuter that should technically be about the same size, but totally different geometry. So it makes a huge difference. My sister who is built like my dad cannot take a WSD like mine either, so it just depends.

If I knew the men's bike was a better idea, I would get them to comp me a different seat to sweeten the deal. It makes a HUGE difference if you are riding a bit. I have a unisex seat on my commuter, but I only ride 5 mi to/from.