Printable View
I just had a good laugh reading this in a description of a club ride in southern Indiana. They know what hills are down there:
"All road bicycling will be on good roads with many ripples and a few larger bumps and a couple of hills." Talk about understatement :D
Do you have a favorite example of a club ride description?
I once described the top of Mt. Tam as "rollers, trending up". I think Jobob has referred to that section as "the Seven B!tches." :D
Veronica
That's what the locals call Ridgecrest Road on Mt. Tam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica
Well, either that or the Seven Sisters.
I had never heard that until either you or Kim called it that. Anyway... I just remember SK telling me that they were not rollers! Hey, I did say trending up! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by jobob
Veronica
What I really hate is doing an event ride that was described as "flat to gently rolling hills" and the terrain is anything but flat to rolling. I know the terrain in my own region, but when I travel to another state to do an event, I am dependent upon the route description as I am not familiar with the region. When I end up having 5,000 feet or more of elevation gain, with miles of climbing that include grades that are 6-10% or higher, I do not consider the route to be flat to rolling. I finally concluded that the descriptions are written by Alpha male racing cyclists who perceive anything less than a 15% grade to be "flat." So unless the route is in Florida, I will never believe a description again that says "flat to rolling." I like a challenging ride, but I plan my riding schedule around the event rides, and it sure messes up the plan to do miles of climbing when I expected flat to rolling.
Maybe there is a list of terminology somewhere on the internet with an accurate description for commonly used words to describe a route, but I haven't found it. Like in this forum, when someone says they are having a hard time climbing a "steep hill", what are they referring to? Is the distance 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile or 1 mile or longer? Is the grade 3%, 5%, 8%, 12% or higher? One person might consider a steep hill to be 1/4 mile at 3% and another cyclist considers steep to be over 1/2 mile and at least 9%, so it would help if there was an accurate description for what is "steep."
I would really like warning of the more significant difficult parts of a route in the route description. For example, if at mile 64 there is a one mile climb where the grade fluctuates between 16 and 19%, cyclists can't tell it is that steep by eyeballing the hill, they go up it and then it is a mad scramble to try to unclip on a sharp grade with motorists whizzing by and no flat driveways to turn into, it just seems to me to be common sense to put it in the route description.
Ditto, Darcy! By the way...did you do the Vine Ride today? Hats off to you if you did. Hot and windy!
Perhaps it's a regional thing :) Living on the Front Range of the Rocky Mountains in the Denver area of Colorado, our "hills" our others "mountains". If you're west of I25, NO ride is "flat". But, to us locals, it is :p
I hear you, but I think steepness is really in the eye of the beholder--what you're used to riding on. I went on a club ride in a city where I'm living temporarily where people were out of the saddle to climb a hill that wasn't much worse than one I breeze over in my daily commute back home.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarcyInOregon
My boyfriend and I use http://www.mapmyride.com/ a lot because it provides elevation profiles. Often times, routes for charity rides and club rides will have been loaded in there already and we can know a little better what we're getting into.
Steep isn't something you can really quantify. It's different for everyone because we're all at different riding abilities. Today I did a 22 mile ride with 3300 feet of climbing. We had ten miles of climbing spread out in three separate climbs with the longest being about six miles. For someone else that could be freakishly steep. The only "steep" part was a little .7 mile jaunt through a neighborhood, with lots of little hills, some with grades of nearly 20%. Because they were so short, I didn't think of them as steep.
Not everyone rides with a unit that will tell percent of grade either. I guess steep means it was a challenging climb or descent for that person.
Veronica
Having an elevation profile of the ride route at least gives a general idea.
It will tend to give more objective info. on a 12% or 6% grade. Plus number of hills. Then the person can decide how they perceive it as "steep" or "flat". :)
Also different jurisdictions have varied engineering design standards for max. grade of their major highways at different points in history. Just ask any civil engineer.
I also think that the quality of the road paving and paving materials has an effect on riding effort and speed. I've been on a newly paved path or 2, where it was abnormal effort to cycle up a false hill that was only 4-5% grade. I can't remember the paving surface, but it was ridiculous.
It was harder than doing a longer 10% climb of higher quality grade paved road.
If one is organizing a group ride, to be fair not to fall into the trap of alpha males who think that anything under 18% is flat. Objective info. is most helpful to all parties for all cycling levels.
I always love it when they say this is a "no rider" left behind ride, and they are cleaning up the first/last SAG stop as arrive a bit later than the group because you were only going 17mph instead of 22, and again as the sweep rider whips by you just after the turn around with a "everything good? ok? see you at the end."
I always wonder just exactly "no rider left behind" and "sweep will be the last rider in" mean to other people, especially the organizers- and don't get me started on the distinctions between rollers and gently rolling terrain and gentl rollers. Take it all with a huge grain of salt, sauume the worst and hope for the best I guess.
marni
The Vine Ride is on the 21st, thank goodness, and I think the temperatures will be down into the low 70s by then. I can't seem to tolerate the heat anymore when I bike. I did too many rides in July, two of them in extreme heat conditions, and something happened to my body and I still haven't recovered, especially my right leg where I got severe muscle cramps on one ride. If the Vine Ride had been today, I would have gone out as soon as the volunteers showed up with the registration packets, around 6 a.m., so as to get my event tee and done the 35-mile loop. If the temperatures are normal on the 21st I will probably do the 75-mile metric, and not the century; if the temperatures are still hot, I will do the 35-mile loop, but still leave as close to 6 a.m as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by oxysback
On the whole steepness thing (responding to other posts), I realize it is regional and probably alititude is a factor also, but there must be some sort of analysis somewhere that states what a cyclist is capable of achieving at specific levels of fitness. Even on the Tour de France, they show that the peleton will do a 12-mile climb at a 10% grade for example. I know for myself, the two factors are distance of the hill and the grade of the hill, in other words I can get up a steep 17% if it is only 1/8 mile, but if it goes over 1/4 mile I am down in my granny and praying. When I was new to climbing, 7-9% was a struggle, now it is normal, but yet if I go more than a mile of continuous 7-9% I am thinking not-very-nice thoughts.
A few months ago I was out on a ride and a female triathlete pulls up on my left. We cycle along together for a few miles, chitchatting, and she says she is from Colorado. Then she says, "Oregon sure is flat!" Like huh? Oregon has two mountain ranges, how can the terrain be flat?
I have only been on 4-5 group rides at this point, and they were not billed as "training" rides. Generally speaking there have been quite a few riders, last week there were well over a hundred of us. Right now I am only riding between 13-15 mph outside of climbing, though sometimes I can get my LHT up to 17-18. That is slow - but I can keep it going for hours so am not too unhappy with that. It IS my first year and it is fast enough to finish the October brevet with time for breaks - one assumes I will be faster in two months time :)Quote:
Originally Posted by marni
It is good that I like riding alone, because that is what I do on group rides - and that doesn't bother me - I know I am slow. The ride leaders have all been very nice so far, and I've yet to find a closed SAG stop - and in one case they waited some time for me, bless them for doing that :)
I do not bother with the weekday evening rides. They post what average speed they ride at, and while one of them always says that "no rider will be dropped" I just can't imagine that I am fast enough to not REALLY slow everyone down. As far as hills are concerned - until I find my hill-climbing-beast they are ALL a challenge, so I just take what I find.
I agree that "steep" is in the eye of the beholder, but this is one of those times that I think it would help to put some objective numbers in.
When I traveled to Dallas to do the Lone Star Ride with my sister, not a soul could tell me objectively what the terrain was like. Even my sister, who's ridden in lots of different terrain but really isn't familiar with the places I've ridden, could only tell me, "It's not flat...?" :p I considered bringing my old bike - just to give her a chance to get ridden. But the reason I don't ride that bike here is that my legs just won't drive the tall gears any more and I didn't want to bring her along and then be miserable at 60 rpm for 175 miles. As it turned out, I would've been fine - I don't think there was anything steeper than 6% or longer than a mile on the whole ride.
Now that the USGS has posted those topo maps though, we don't have to rely so much on ride organizers.
As far as putting the hazardous intersections on the cue sheets, we do that for our ride, and we "CAUTION" the road in advance, but those kinds of things are hard to really understand unless you've done them once before.
I only ride with a group that I know... it took me a long time to find one that has people like me... not slow enough to be slow and not fast enough to be fast. Now we seem to be splitting into 2 groups, as the original members are getting older (like well into their 60s- 70s) and the young people like me who are in their 50s are faster. Again, I fall somewhere in the middle, but I tend to go out with the fast group on hilly rides (I can keep up better on these kinds of rides) and regular group on flatter/rolling ones. But, the key is that I know if they say it's a "very hilly" ride, I know exactly what they mean.
Just yesterday we were laughing our @sses off at the Trek Travel description of a "moderate" level trip.... 18 miles with 3300 ft. of climbing, 40 miles with 5,000 ft. of climbing! While, I could probably do this, I don't think it's moderate. The trip we did with them 5 years ago had several 12-15% grades, some of which were even challenging for my DH, because of the length. They told us about some of them, but not all. Maybe they think no one will come, if they tell the truth? Just tell me the grade and the length of the climb and let me decide.
And yes, some ride descriptions are definitely written by alpha male racers.
http://www.deercreekchallenge.com/event_info.html
Not only should the title warn you that it's hard, and the fact that the elevation profile looks like an EKG print out, I haven't seen another ride that tells you what gearing you should have "Bike gearing for climbing - we recommend 39 on front and 28 on back, triple or compact."
They do a great job warning you, and most rides here do give you an elevation profile.
As for group rides, as a weekly group ride leader, some responsibility falls to the riders attending. Our store only has one ride a week, and we mix up the intensity, distance and climbs. Rides are posted on our blog, Facebook and the main company page in advance so people know what we're doing. While they are "no drop", and we do wait for the slower riders, there are those who really shouldnt be on certain rides yet. When it's just me and a partner with 15 people, if you cant make it and decide to go back, we cant leave our group for one person. I have friends who come and ride sometimes and I tell them "yes, you'll be fine" or like yesterday I told my buddy "hey, no shame in not coming today - we're doing some serious climbs"
We had one gal come on her hybrid, a new rider who had ridden once before with us. She enjoyed the company, but cant complete the routes yet. She gets to a certain point, cant go any more, thanks us for riding with her and goes back to her car. She learns something each ride, gets better, but knows her limits.
We aslo had a couple new ladies who told me at the shop that they were slow riders, but that they ride a lot. Yes, one of us hung back with them on the ride, but they had no problems whatsoever with the distance or climbs - they just averaged 12mph. My partner and I talk and strategize on the rides, one will lead the pack to a certain point where we can wait for the rest of the group to catch up. Works well for us, and everyone is safe and has a good time.
Jenn, that's the way DH and I lead our rides. We do 25-40 mile rides, with some climbing. They are billed as intermediate level, with an average of 13.5-15. What usually happens is that there will be a faster cluster of riders behind DH, who is leading and a group that is about 2 mph slower, that I stay behind. DH waits at the top of bigger climbs so we regroup, or at designated points.
On one ride we lead, the "slower" contingent didn't show. I got caught at a light in the beginning and was struggling to catch up (it was an early season warm up ride and I definitely was not in the shape I am in now). They waited a bit and then DH slowed the pace... quite a few of these people struggled on the one big climb and after that, we stayed at a more moderate pace... until a rest stop when DH sort of took off. I just couldn't keep up. There was a headwind, too. But, since I was the sweep, it didn't matter. Normally, there would have been a group struggling in the back, and I seem to be able to coach people through this. In the end, I got back only a couple of minutes after the group, but I missed having the range of diversity on this ride.
Our rides are more "social," and we tell people this specifically, even if the pace is brisk. And most people say they love it and that it is a change from the usual club type rides.
omg! Yep, that is freakish to me :eek: I live in Houston, TX and our hills are only the little bridges that go over the tiny creeks. To train for the hills in Austin, TX for the MS150 ride my hubby and I go to the soapbox track outside of town where we get a 1-sided hill, but at least it is something that actually goes up. It's all relative. Your hills are my mountains.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica
This isn't an understatement (or a club ride), but my favorite was Lance Armstrong's description of Metcalf Road used in the San Jose Livestrong Challenge.
"I'm not going to lie to you. It's tough. You've been warned."
Ya think? It's 2 miles at up to 14%...
I think the description that threw me off the most was for Levi's GranFondo talking about Graton Road. "It's challenging, but manageable." I should have considered whose words those were. The climb is 2 miles at up to 10%... I didn't make it. I may be ready this year.
This sounds like the Alps to me... or my sister's neighborhood in East Tennessee. I guess the point is that "steep" is going to change depending on a person's abilities AND the terrain they are accustomed to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica
Thankfully I love challenges, so that helps me to hang in on those hills that I am slowly going up...while everyone passes me on them :o
Back to my original post on this thread, I know the ride leader who posted that description of the ride, and he has ridden all over the country. So, for him, they probably ARE ripples, bumps, and the very occasional hill...
What ride is that description for, Catrin? I couldn't find it on CIBA's ride calendar.
It is part of the description for the "Labor Day Weekend Triple Grand Touring Rides" that come out of Corydon on September 4-6th. It sounds like a lot of fun, if I had my hill-climbing legs and the money for a hotel room for a few nights I would be tempted :)Quote:
Originally Posted by indysteel
However, I don't, and I am moving in October so have to save the money...
Ah, now I see it. I must have buzzed past that ride. That sounds like Warren's sense of humor.
Local LBS posts "Weekday Recovery Ride"----should have guessed when I was the only woman --hint, hint!!
Turned out to be a 26-28mph. Not sure who can "recover" at that pace??
I now refer to it as the "Roid Recovery Ride" :D
Holy cr@p... what's the pace of their tempo rides? :eek:
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamibiker
How far do they ride that fast? That's like pro peleton pace.
Veronica
roid recovery or delusions of adequacy, (ducking and running)Quote:
Originally Posted by miamibiker
I find it very helpful to preview the ride using ridewithgps, if I the route is available beforehand. Seeing the elevation profile in advance gives me a much better sense of what to expect.
Two of the clubs that post a ride schedule use rating systems: flat, minor hills, moderate hills, steep hills, long climbs or very steep for one, and FF-Fairly Flat, LH=Little Hills, MH=Medium Hills, BH=Big Hills for the other.
The biggest club around here uses Terrain Degree of Difficulty (TDD). But it's one of those things that they've been using forever, and if anyone else uses it - or if they say how it's calculated - I haven't been able to find it.
I should just ask. :rolleyes:
Our ride coodinator was this thin, gnarly, sinewy guy that regularly rode across the USA. To him there was no such thing as hills or mountains. One of my favorite ride description was something like "43 miles, X to Y, one hill".
At least he acknowledged the 28 mile mountain climb (approximately 6500') as a hill.
We all learned it was best just to know the area so if you were going from point A to B you knew it was hilly.