Hot 48 miles and dehydration

Had a sweet 48.5 mile ride this morning, but had a small problem after I had ridden about 38 miles or so.

My left calf started cramping and it got very hard to think. It actually took a mile or so of this for it to dawn on me that I really needed to stop - as I said my thinking wasn't very clear at that point. Stopped at a church and sat in the shade for 15 minutes or so, and ate/drank. Was fine for the rest of the trip.

Does this sound like a dehydration/electrolyte issue? Someone told me that the cramping made it sound like that but does it cause fuzzy thinking? I couldn't even remember what was in the water bottles when I stopped.

I had a bottle of Accelerade, a bottle of Heed, and 50 ounces of water in my Camelbak. I had all of that, but all that actually got drunk was the Accelerade and the water. I am thinking that just wasn't enough... I did refill my 'bak during the ride - though it only took about 6 ounces. It was almost gone when I finished.

Can't yet drink from the water bottle on the bike, one of the reasons I love my 'bak. So I get in the zone and at some point don't even think about stopping to drink from the bottle and in this heat I need more than water.

Am going out for another 30 miles tomorrow after church and am considering filling the 'bak with Heed. If I wind up having to replace the bladder then I will - it is only $25...

Feel fine now, knees are a little tender from the ride but that is all. Fought a mean and HOT head-wind once I turned around for the return part of my ride.

How long were you out for? I tend to drink one bottle per hour of ride time. 48 miles can be anything from 2.5 hour ride in which case you should have had enough hydration to a 5 - 6 hour ride and certainly not enough.

Have you tried coasting and pulling your bottle out to get a drink?

Veronica

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Originally Posted by Veronica

How long were you out for? I tend to drink one bottle per hour of ride time. 48 miles can be anything from 2.5 hour ride in which case you should have had enough hydration to a 5 - 6 hour ride and certainly not enough.

Have you tried coasting and pulling your bottle out to get a drink?

Veronica

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I was out for 4.5 hours, though actual riding time was 3:40 (had bad directions and kept having to stop to look at the map). The headwind on the return trip really had an impact on the length of my ride.

So, basically, I had 2 bottles of water + 1 bottle of Accelerade for 4.5 hours of a hot ride. I suppose that answers the question - that bottle of Heed would have probably done the trick for me. I did have a few Cliff Shot Blocs along the way, but only 3 of them (until I was forced to take the break and ate 2 more). Did have a Cliff bar halfway through the ride - they seem to sit on my stomach just fine in the heat.

I have tried coasting and reaching for the bottle - but it is a long reach for me just yet and it feels like I am overbalancing or something and have yet to be able to reach that far...

Any time you find yourself stopping to check the map or whatever -- take a few big gulps. If necessary, pull over for no reason other to take a drink.

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Originally Posted by ny biker

Any time you find yourself stopping to check the map or whatever -- take a few big gulps. If necessary, pull over for no reason other to take a drink.

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I tried to do that.... No problems drinking from the 'bak of course. The problem today seemed to be that once it got really hot, and I got into the hills (was surprised to find those, considering) and the hot headwind came that I just focused on the water and forgot about the Heed in the bottle - my body probably needed both more water and to replace the electrolytes.

It was the confusion that was a surprise to me, I've heard about the cramps.... Next time the Heed is going into the 'Bak :cool:

I've been dehydrated and had cramps from it. I get a really bad headache. I don't get confused. I've even had the beginnings of heat stroke, when your body stops sweating and not been confused. So confusion for me, would make me concerned.

I guess it all depends on what is a normal state of mind for you.

Veronica

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Originally Posted by Veronica

I've been dehydrated and had cramps from it. I get a really bad headache. I don't get confused. I've even had the beginnings of heat stroke, when your body stops sweating and not been confused. So confusion for me, would make me concerned.

I guess it all depends on what is a normal state of mind for you.

Veronica

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:) That may well have been from low blood sugar - I do get hypoglycemia and didn't have my meter with me. Did have a headache as well. It really wasn't confusion more than it was fuzzy thinking.. That is assuming that my thinking is ever NOT that way :D

Catrin - I too am hypoglycemic and I find that I have to use more than Accelerade for my electrolytes. Accelerade works great for sustaining my energy levels but I have to use shot blocks with it or gatorade (full strength). It's been so hot here lately I'd say you are losing more electrolytes than you think. I have been sweating so bad that I'm salting out. My face will get tiny salt crystals on it and it looks like white dust. If I dump water over my head I can taste salt water running over my lips. As long as you are eating enough before going out on these longer rides I would guess you are experiencing cramps from lack of electrolytes. Add shot blocks and try that. :)

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Originally Posted by WindingRoad

Catrin - I too am hypoglycemic and I find that I have to use more than Accelerade for my electrolytes. Accelerade works great for sustaining my energy levels but I have to use shot blocks with it or gatorade (full strength). It's been so hot here lately I'd say you are losing more electrolytes than you think. I have been sweating so bad that I'm salting out. My face will get tiny salt crystals on it and it looks like white dust. If I dump water over my head I can taste salt water running over my lips. As long as you are eating enough before going out on these longer rides I would guess you are experiencing cramps from lack of electrolytes. Add shot blocks and try that. :)

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I did have shot blocs, but only ate 3 of them in the 3.5 hours before this happened (and a cliff bar). I know if my blood sugar drops too low that causes the kind of "slow" thinking I was having. I did have a somewhat lighter breakfast than normal before the ride - thinking that I didn't want to weigh myself down with too much food in the heat. I am also diabetic (type 2) so am always fighting that question of how much is too much - but the body has to have the right kind of fuel.

If I had drank the Heed that I had with me - and eaten more shot blocs - it probably would have been fine.

Thanks everyone for helping me think this through. As I increase my mileage base for longer and longer rides I really need to get this nutrition/hydration thing worked out. I think I want one more 50 mile ride just to make sure everything is working for me before I bump it up to 60 miles...

Confusion is one of the first things that happens to me when I overheat.

Not dehydrate.

Remember that in these temperatures and humidity, you could be perfectly well hydrated and still overheat. They're not the same thing.

But it also sounds like you didn't drink nearly enough.

Are you weighing yourself before and after a ride? That's the only way to determine your personal sweat rate. One pint of water is one pound. Find the difference, if any, in your weight before and after; keep track of how much you drink during the ride; and figure it from there.

I'm a heavy sweater. In this weather I can easily sweat two liters an hour. Your body actually can't absorb that much that quickly, so you really need to be careful with hydration. But beyond that, be aware that you can still be overheating, and deal with it by STOPPING; if ice or cool water is available, get it onto your pulse points (armpits, groin, neck); drink crushed ice.

Beyond the obvious primary dangers of overheating, dizzy and confused are not a good way to be on two wheels in traffic. That's exactly why I got the cooling vest for the motorcycle.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Confusion is one of the first things that happens to me when I overheat.

Not dehydrate.

Remember that in these temperatures and humidity, you could be perfectly well hydrated and still overheat. They're not the same thing.

But it also sounds like you didn't drink nearly enough...

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Didn't think of just plain over-heating causing a little confusion. The temps weren't THAT high, but did climb quite a few steep hills against a hot and strong head-wind. Sometimes I don't sweat very much, other times I do.

Time to purchase a new scale, finally. And yeah, this is also a heads-up on drinking enough. I THOUGHT I had that worked out :o

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Originally Posted by Catrin

I did have shot blocs, but only ate 3 of them in the 3.5 hours before this happened (and a cliff bar). I know if my blood sugar drops too low that causes the kind of "slow" thinking I was having.

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Hypoglycemia is a real bear. I find that the lower I get, the more confused I get, and the less likely I am to remember what to do (eat).

In the course of a 3.5 hour ride I will eat probably 20 shot blocs. It really is crucial that I eat them *before* I feel I need to. I'm in the habit now of also bringing glucose tablets along, I've had a couple moments where chewing clif blox was just too complicated for me to figure out. Hopefully I'll do a better job managing things in the future and won't get to that point. But at least the glucose tablets don't have to be chewed...

I buy shot blox by the case at REI, you get a discount.
The glucose tablets I get by the jar at the pharmacy. They are cheaper by the jar than by the tube, and I just use the jar to refill the tubes.

Everyone has their own unique physiology.
I don't know what the temp is in Indiana but it's too hot here to safely exercise.
I live on a major cycling route and I saw no one out today, cycling or otherwise.

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Hypoglycemia is a real bear. I find that the lower I get, the more confused I get, and the less likely I am to remember what to do (eat).

In the course of a 3.5 hour ride I will eat probably 20 shot blocs. It really is crucial that I eat them *before* I feel I need to. I'm in the habit now of also bringing glucose tablets along, I've had a couple moments where chewing clif blox was just too complicated for me to figure out. Hopefully I'll do a better job managing things in the future and won't get to that point. But at least the glucose tablets don't have to be chewed...

I buy shot blox by the case at REI, you get a discount.
The glucose tablets I get by the jar at the pharmacy. They are cheaper by the jar than by the tube, and I just use the jar to refill the tubes.

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I will check REI out - my body seems to tolerate them fine I just have to remember to EAT them. I thought I had all this worked out but it is time to get it right - thanks. Today got my attention. I need more food and I need more drink on the bike! Glucose tabs sound like a good idea as well. I don't get hypoglycimic all that often, but my blood glucose has been known to get down to 33 due to intense exercise w/out proper fuel. Thought I had this worked out.

I HAVE figured out how to eat them on the bike - I prop the open package in my Bento box on my TT and can grab one as I need. I didn't do that today though, I went through only half of one package... so that was what, 100 calories for the Blocs, 250 from the Cliff bar, and 240 calories from the Accelerade ~ for a grand total of 590 calories to fuel 3.5 hours of cycling (4.3 hours total in the heat)?

Sheesh, well, lesson learned :o

Will also remember that overheating can cause the same confusion - I honestly did not know that.

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Originally Posted by Zen

Everyone has their own unique physiology.
I don't know what the temp is in Indiana but it's too hot here to safely exercise.
I live on a major cycling route and I saw no one out today, cycling or otherwise.

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This morning it wasn't too bad here, and there were lots of cyclists out. We were all trying to get our thing done before the official heat warning took effect at noon. Of course it took me until almost 1:30 to get back to my car... Tomorrow it is supposed to cool down to a reasonable level - assuming that the rains come tomorrow morning that is predicted.:o

I remember my HEED instructions said to add your own amount of electrolytes, so you might want to check the nutritional information before assuming HEED will get you what you need.

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Originally Posted by dianne_1234

I remember my HEED instructions said to add your own amount of electrolytes, so you might want to check the nutritional information before assuming HEED will get you what you need.

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hmmmm, on the back of my Heed container:

Heed provides:
complex carbohydrates
a complete electrolyte profile (looks pretty complete)
Supplimental Nutrients that buffer lactice acid, stabilize blood glucose levels and promote efficient carbohydrate metabolism

This looks great - IF YOU DRINK IT - which I did not :o

Not because I don't like the taste - I do - better than any other drink I've tried. So, I will drink it next time :D

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Originally Posted by Catrin

I tried to do that.... No problems drinking from the 'bak of course. The problem today seemed to be that once it got really hot, and I got into the hills (was surprised to find those, considering) and the hot headwind came that I just focused on the water and forgot about the Heed in the bottle - my body probably needed both more water and to replace the electrolytes.

It was the confusion that was a surprise to me, I've heard about the cramps.... Next time the Heed is going into the 'Bak :cool:

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I suffered with severe dehydration once, and not only was I "confused"...but I'm pretty sure I was hallucinating too. I actually starting fixating on the white line (I think it's called "white line fever") that runs along the shoulder. It was almost like I couldn't take my eyes off that damn white line...I felt like a zombie. That was downright scary! I often forget to drink enough on rides, but I'm getting better about that. I really should start carrying 2 bottles with me, but we usually end up stopping at a gas station or two, to refill anyway.

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Originally Posted by Catrin

:) That may well have been from low blood sugar - I do get hypoglycemia and didn't have my meter with me.

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Test, don't guess!

Go buy a sidekick or True2Go... best "bike" meters I've found :) I have two True2Go's that stay in each of my saddle bags (one on each bike).. I don't worry about not having one with me... and they're so small that I have no excuse not to carry one. The strips expire after 6 months if unused, but they're cheap... around $20 for 50, and I've yet to "not" use them up in time... if you're out riding a lot, I'd honestly recommend test any time you feel "off".

I always carry some sort of fast acting glucose (I like cake gel because it's cheaper than liquid glucose) as well as energy gels (which are not fast acting). I don't like tabs because I feel like if I do use them to treat a low, I waste too much of my water getting the gritty chalky feeling to go away than I really need to - with the cake gel just a swish and swallow is good after. Then I follow it up with half an energy gel and more water, but a couple of shot bloks would work fine too.

Looks like you have received some great advice already but do be sure to check for the brached chain amino acids in your nutrition ( whatever you choose) this is something I learned from another forum...
L-Tryptophan and Carbohydrates
L-tryptophan may be found in turkey and other dietary proteins, but it's actually a carbohydrate-rich (as opposed to protein-rich) meal that increases the level of this amino acid in the brain and leads to serotonin synthesis. Carbohydrates stimulate the pancreas to secrete insulin. When this occurs, some amino acids that compete with tryptophan leave the bloodstream and enter muscle cells. This causes an increase in the relative concentration of tryptophan in the bloodstream. Serotonin is synthesized and you feel that familiar sleepy feeling.

So, here is something to try on your next long ride...take along some BCAA (Branched chain amino acids). This will help keep levels high enough in the bloodstream to compete with the tryptophan and keep the levels lower in the brain, reducing the fatigue.
hope that helps,
Tam

Lots of good ideas - thanks! Figuring out all of these hydration and nutritional needs is part of the process of building endurance... figuring out what works.

I think that I've been in weight loss mode for so long that it came into play yesterday with not wanting to eat more on the bike. Gotta fuel for endurance.

I do think it a good idea to stay at this mileage at least one more week, just to be safe, before I bump it to 60. I was taking the 60 mile option on an organized ride next Saturday, but think it would be best to stick with the 50 mile option one more week...

Catrin, there is nothing wrong with stopping the bike alongside the road in the shade of a tree, planting your feet, and taking a few minutes to drink and eat. There is no rule that you must drink and eat while pedaling, especially if you are primarily a solo cyclist. The stoppped time also gives you the opportunity to reflect on your heart rate, blood pressure, blood sugar, body temp, etc., to make sure you have no symptoms. The cyclists I know will stop at specific points based on either 1)calories burned, 2)distance or 3)time. I use calories burned because I cycle with low blood sugars also and I stop to refuel at specific levels, every 800-1200 calories burned, eat and drink, and that will usually keep something from happening.

I always plan my distance rides to either go by farm stands, small farm town grocery stores or parks, where I can get water to fill my water bowls. I have even gone right up to farm houses and used their garden hose to fill my water bottles. I carry electrolyte powders to put in my water bottles.

On this last Saturday, I did a century in the extreme heat, with the temp on the bike being in excess of 100. I did all sorts of things to keep from getting heat stroke and dehydration and low electrolytes, like cooling down in a hay barn and once standing in a farmer's sprinklers until my entire body was soaked. But for the first time ever, I got severe cramps in my right leg after a 3-mile climb, so everything I did still wasn't enough. Yet I was quite lucky because at the end I was told that a lot of cyclists had to call for help from their relatives or friends or event volunteers, that one male century cyclist had a possible heart attack at mile 60, and that many metric cyclists had possible heat stroke/dehydration issues. The lesson I learned is that when the temp goes high, to do shorter distances or not to ride at all.

And yes, you are correct, the most difficult part of increasing the miles is actually the nutrition and liquid intake, figuring it out, adjusting and tinkering with it, and then you will find the years go by and you are still tinkering with it.

What works for me is taking a big gulp (in my case nuun or G2 diluted) every 10 minutes max. I don't think you did that. It will help when you can drink while riding, but in the meantime, plan to stop every 15 minutes and drink. Eat every 30 minutes.

On a 4.5 hour ride, it's imperative that I eat--more than just shot blocks. I eat a PowerBar over an hour, so that would mean that I would have eaten 4 PowerBars. Now, I really would not eat 4 PowerBars because it would make me gag--I would have eaten two over the course of the ride, and stopped at a store and had some beef jerky, more gatorade-type stuff, and perhaps some almonds. At the end, I would have enjoyed chocolate milk and potato chips.

I've been so dehydrated (hiking, not biking) that I too was hallucinating. I kept seeing tables set with white tablecloths and a big glasses of icewater that I couldn't get my hands on. They were following me. It was scary. I could hear other people drinking and getting their glasses refilled, too (though no one else in my group was drinking either!). You don't want to see the water we ended up drinking to save our own lives. Ick.

Anyway...

I believe that HEED is designed to have enough electrolytes for shorter workouts. For longer ones, Hammer recommends Perpeteum (or however it's spelled) because HEED does not provide enough electrolytes beyond 2 hours (or something like that). Of course, HEED supplemented with shot bloks should have been fine had you been eating them.

And yes, overheating can definitely cause fuzzy thinking. It happens to me particularly because I'm not the most prolific sweat producer. If you aren't either, that probably contributed to your issues.

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Originally Posted by DarcyInOregon

...... The cyclists I know will stop at specific points based on either 1)calories burned, 2)distance or 3)time. I use calories burned because I cycle with low blood sugars also and I stop to refuel at specific levels, every 800-1200 calories burned, eat and drink, and that will usually keep something from happening.......And yes, you are correct, the most difficult part of increasing the miles is actually the nutrition and liquid intake, figuring it out, adjusting and tinkering with it, and then you will find the years go by and you are still tinkering with it.

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Good advice, thank you. I really didn't feel bad until my calf started cramping...so lesson learned that I need to plan better for this. I guess it wasn't a real issue when I was riding <40 miles...

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Originally Posted by tulip

What works for me is taking a big gulp (in my case nuun or G2 diluted) every 10 minutes max. I don't think you did that. It will help when you can drink while riding, but in the meantime, plan to stop every 15 minutes and drink. Eat every 30 minutes.

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I was drinking from my Camelbak pretty frequently - but no - not every 10 minutes - but it just had water in it. That will change this weekend when I go on my long ride. If I wind up having to replace the bladder because I put Heed in it then I will. Thanks for the other food ideas as well.

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Originally Posted by GLC1968

....I believe that HEED is designed to have enough electrolytes for shorter workouts. For longer ones, Hammer recommends Perpeteum (or however it's spelled) because HEED does not provide enough electrolytes beyond 2 hours (or something like that). Of course, HEED supplemented with shot bloks should have been fine had you been eating them.

And yes, overheating can definitely cause fuzzy thinking. It happens to me particularly because I'm not the most prolific sweat producer. If you aren't either, that probably contributed to your issues.

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I did drink my bottle of Accelerade - though it would have been better to have had two of them rather than one. It is like Perpeteum and my stomach likes it better. In this area what my tummy wants she gets :) I DID have shot bloks with me though I forgot to eat them .... considering how many long rides I have planned over the next few months I think a case of them would be a great idea! My tummy likes them as well, which is good.

I am not the most prolific sweat producer either, though that seems to be changing - which is a good thing.

I've another 50 mile ride planned for Saturday, but this one will be a supported club ride. It is supposed to be back to reasonable temps this weekend as well so there shouldn't be a repeat.

Yesterday's ride went much better as far as nutrition/hydration was concerned. Same number of miles that took more than an hour longer due to the presence of lots of hills - and I am still working on finding my inner hill-climbing animal :cool:

The temps were much, much cooler so the comparison stops there - but felt many times better even though I was on the bike almost 5 hours. :D

C., glad it seems to be working better for you, although of course it's been MUCH cooler, and we're also all a bit better acclimated to the heat than we were a couple of weeks ago.

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Originally Posted by GLC1968

I believe that HEED is designed to have enough electrolytes for shorter workouts. For longer ones, Hammer recommends Perpeteum (or however it's spelled) because HEED does not provide enough electrolytes beyond 2 hours (or something like that). Of course, HEED supplemented with shot bloks should have been fine had you been eating them.

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Nutrition labels: HEED, Perpetuem. Keeping in mind that the data for Perpetuem is for two scoops, vs. one scoop for HEED (hate that!), you can see that they're just different products, but while Perpetuem has more sodium and calcium, it actually has LESS magnesium than HEED and no potassium at all.

For more balanced long-workout electrolyte replacement and/or if you don't like the soy protein that Perpetuem has, they sell Endurolytes in powder and pill form.

That's what I really hate about Hammer products. I like the way HEED and Hammer Gel sit on my stomach - better than most anything I've tried. I of course like how they're widely available at retail. I really, really dislike having to buy three different products from them.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

C., glad it seems to be working better for you, although of course it's been MUCH cooler, and we're also all a bit better acclimated to the heat than we were a couple of weeks ago.




Nutrition labels: HEED, Perpetuem. Keeping in mind that the data for Perpetuem is for two scoops, vs. one scoop for HEED (hate that!), you can see that they're just different products, but while Perpetuem has more sodium and calcium, it actually has LESS magnesium than HEED and no potassium at all.

For more balanced long-workout electrolyte replacement and/or if you don't like the soy protein that Perpetuem has, they sell Endurolytes in powder and pill form.

That's what I really hate about Hammer products. I like the way HEED and Hammer Gel sit on my stomach - better than most anything I've tried. I of course like how they're widely available at retail. I really, really dislike having to buy three different products from them.

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I don't use Perpetuam - I like the Heed for rides <2 hours. For longer rides - or very hot ones - I also use Accelerade (2 scoops for one bottle as well). For some reason Perpetuam doesn't sit on my stomach quite as well as Accelerade - and I don't mind the taste when it gets warm. It seems to work for me. Hammer Gel is fine, but I prefer Cliff Shot Blocs for ease of use and I don't get my fingers sticky. Accelerade has whey protein rather than soy and I like that better.

For now this combination seems to be working for me - though the real test will be what happens the next very hot day...

BTW - when I went riding Friday afternoon - there for the first mile or so I almost wanted warmer clothes on! It passed :)

My 70oz camelback lasts me about 2hours. I fill it with cytomax and when it's hot I add a little dash of salt plus a dash of Morton's lite salt for extra electrolytes. I get leg cramps without the extra electrolytes.

I would have needed much more than you drank. I tend to sweat profusely though so it's possible I need more than average. My daughter drinks nowhere near the amount I do when we ride.

It definitely sounds like you were overheated...hydration and fueling may have played a part. Sounds like a break was the right things to do!

This thread has been very instructive. This has been my summer of longer rides -- canyon and prairie, lots of headwinds, and while no confusion or hallucinations, I started to have what I call gnatstorms of microseizures. I do have epilepsy, but I haven't had seizures in years, and these were only happening immediately after rides. I thought it might be due to dehydration, so really tried to up the water intake, but still wasn't doing it. I told my ride buddies, they started building extra marcy-water-stops into the organized rides we did, gotta love your ride buddies.

I'd never even tried gatorade or shot blocks (I call 'em fake jello shots) before, but started this summer, and so far no more seizures. Now I'm having energy swoops, highs and lows, more often lows, so have to figure out how to manage this, so turned to Team Estrogen for some collective wisdom. I bought some Heed yesterday after a 50 mile dry and windy ride. I will be rereading this thread and looking elsewhere on Nutrition/Hydration for ideas on spike mgmt, but thank you for your willingness to share your experiences -- I'm feeling less pathetic now.

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Originally Posted by CommuterChick

I bought some Heed yesterday after a 50 mile dry and windy ride. I will be rereading this thread and looking elsewhere on Nutrition/Hydration for ideas on spike mgmt, but thank you for your willingness to share your experiences -- I'm feeling less pathetic now.

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I hope the Heed works for you - FOR ME Heed works great, and for rides over 2 hours I add in Accelerade (lemon-lime or mountain berry). Perpetuam just doesn't work for me as well as Accelerade.

I hope that you can work this out, but it sounds like you might be on the right track. I like Shot Blocs as well - they work for me.

This is such a personal thing that changes between individuals and our bodies. What works for one may not another - but of course we can't figure out what WILL work until we get into the longer rides. I have learned that I have to eat/drink a LOT on longer rides to keep my energy up but someone else may not need to do so...

Keep us posted on how things go.

this is a very good thread. I just wanted to say that day by day our needs are different. I had to fast for a dr's appt and by the time they looked at me my bp was 80 over 50 and she was pretty freaked out about it. She says that a lot of us are always borderline dehydrated and that for a ride I should start hydrating the night before. Now a year ago I did tour de blast and was still thirsty (and drinking lots) 3 days later.. Last week I did another mountain pass ride and followed Dr's instructions. My husband was very annoyed (I drank some of his water) but I was rehydrated the next day and quite pleased with myself. I'm not drinking enough to swamp myself, but really, any symptoms like cramps or headaches are better tackled immediately.

Always dehydrated: only occasionally hospitalized for it.

Pinch Test:
Pinch up the skin on the back of your hand between your thumb and pointer.
If you are well hydrated it will pop right back down flat after you pinch it up. If you are "down-a-quart" it will fall rather slowly.

I learned this from an ER nurse.

Is there more to the story? Why, Yes, yes there is.

Interesting ... how long should one hold the "pinch"?

Just pinch it up and let it go.
The info is all in how long it takes to fall down.

just checked back in -- wow, there's really a lot of life in this thread! thanks for the well wishes. Intrigued by the pinch test, Malkin, I'd say my flapdown is slow, but need a benchmark. I used to work with a librarian who programmed her computer to bug her every hour with "Stretch! and Look away!" Maybe mine should add "drink something!" Biciclista, I like the hydrating the night before idea -- I bet I'm always so worried about event pee-control that I do the opposite. Catrin, I don't actually know what Accelerade is, will look it up.

Excuse me, I have to go drink some water!

Catrin, I don't actually know what Accelerade is, will look it up.

Excuse me, I have to go drink some water![/QUOTE]

Accelerade is good stuff with one caveat- it tastes very chalky when it gets warm.

Oddly enough I have not found it to get too bad when it gets warm - I use the Lemon-Lime flavor, but perhaps I just have strange taste-buds :) I tried Perpetuam (sp?) and just couldn't tolerate it for some reason.