Are e-Bikes real bikes? Are they good or bad? Opinions?

I found a few past threads on e-bikes here, but one turned into a discussion of explosions and the other was from 2006.

I'm a cycling journalist and I'm really interested to know what intelligent, thoughtful, civil people like the wonderful cyclists in this forum think about these things.

As a woman with a 60+ year old mother who might actually ride a bike if she didn't have to suffer the indignity of walking up the hills she can't handle, I definitely see some good uses for these assist bikes.

What do you guys think? I'd love if you could add your voices to the comments section on the blog so we can expose some level-headed thinking around this. (The comments on a post in the Oregonian website yesterday turned into lost of piss and vinegar. Not helpful.)

This is the post with the rest of my opinion about them: http://gritandglimmer.com/e-bikes-awesome-or-awful/

Hi Heidi, what you're going to get here are a lot of opinions, but since you asked:
I ride a bike because i need the exercise. I am 58 years old and 10 years ago i was having serious health and vitality issues due to a life of inactivity. I live in a very hilly town (seattle) and while i can escape some of the hills some of the time, i can't escape them all of the time. I used to push my bike up some hills too, but nowadays I just ride.
While I am not suggesting that your mother CAN or SHOULD learn to ride up and down those hills, that's what cycling was about for ME.
I see people on power assist bikes all the time, and while they are sharing the dangers of the road with me, there is a fundamental difference just like there is with motorcyclists. We understand each other, we face the same dangers, but that's it. So if your mother wants to ride an Ebike, let her.
why not?

First, being 60+ has little to do with buying an electric bike. Absent a specific disability, your mother probably can build hill-climbing strength if she wants to. If she doesn't want to, she can buy an electric bike or walk the hill.

In addition, why is walking the hill an indignity? Is this her perception, or is it yours? I walked hills all the time before I built strength, and that's in Manhattan where we have very little in the way of hills.

People who are snobbish about bikes are just like people who are snobbish about anything else -- probably not worth your time or your mother's.

Anyone who wants an electric bike for whatever reason should buy one. In your mother's case, I would encourage her to look at whether proper gearing would allow her eventually conquer that hill, and to stop worrying about what other people think.

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Originally Posted by heidiswift

I found a few past threads on e-bikes here, but one turned into a discussion of explosions and the other was from 2006.

I'm a cycling journalist and I'm really interested to know what intelligent, thoughtful, civil people like the wonderful cyclists in this forum think about these things.

As a woman with a 60+ year old mother who might actually ride a bike if she didn't have to suffer the indignity of walking up the hills she can't handle, I definitely see some good uses for these assist bikes.

What do you guys think? I'd love if you could add your voices to the comments section on the blog so we can expose some level-headed thinking around this. (The comments on a post in the Oregonian website yesterday turned into lost of piss and vinegar. Not helpful.)

This is the post with the rest of my opinion about them: http://gritandglimmer.com/e-bikes-awesome-or-awful/

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My opinion? E-bikes...great if you want to bike with an option not to.
However, using one on a group bike ride. Uh, no. Using one at a rally? Uh, no. Wearing spandex or aero bars on one? No again. And, for the love of Pete, if you own an e-bike, don't pass someone in granny gear, panting their way up a hill with their heart rate monitor beeping alarmingly! Bad, bad form.

There was a blog post/article in my local paper about these yesterday and I spent some time online looking at the products mentioned. I'm also curious enough that I might take one for a test ride since there's a local shop that carries them. http://www.baltimoresun.com/features...,3729617.story

Looking at them online, though, I was struck by the tradeoff--sure, you get an electric assist for hills, and I was thinking that it would be a nice thing to have on my commute to work--11 easy miles of rolling to flat terrain and two miles of straight uphill slog. But is it really that much of a benefit when you're dragging a LOT of extra weight around during the times you're doing the pedaling yourself? I think that the slight uphill from my house for the first mile of my commute would be nearly as difficult as that two mile slog if my bike were 50 pounds (the weight of the eZee urban commuter bike). I think the temptation for someone starting out who isn't already in good shape would be to skip the pedaling and only use the motor. If the goal is to have a more environmentally friendly mode of transportation, there's nothing wrong with that. But if someone wants to get into shape and thinks the e-bike will ease them into cycling, I think they'd do better to start with a lighter bike and get into shape the old fashioned way.

Sarah

All good points above. All I have to add is:

One Less Car.

I personally don't care for ebikes. To me the point of a bike is that it is human powered. The examples set by the older members of our cycling club (60-80!) let me know that biking is one of the best sports we can do to age gracefully. So, my recommendation is to get your mom a real bike, with appropriate gearing to take her up any hill she likes.

I think e-bikes are a great option. Yes, we too have bike club members who prove that not every 60-80 year old needs an e-bike. But they are not necessarily representative of every 60-80 year old. If e-bikes help get or keep more folks in that (or any other!) age group off the couch and out of the car, or allow them to ride in areas they wouldn't otherwise explore by bike, it's wonderful! Everyone has different reasons and goals for riding. E-bikes are just an additional option.

And I do agree with PamNY that walking up a hill is not an indignity!

Is a "cycling journalist" a journalist who rides a bike, or a journalist who writes about cycling? Or someone who joins a forum and starts a thread just to get publicity for your blog?

I'm kinda stuck on the whole "indignity of walking up hills thing." Regular readers of this forum know that we tend not to look down on people who might need to get off and walk from time to time.

The question is, what will the (any) bike be used for? For instance, a light weight racing bike that would be perfect for, say RAAM, would be less than useful for, say, a loaded tour across the country. Different problems, different solutions.

To address the electric bike issue specifically, electrics have a high "hopability factor." You can just hop on and go. The batteries are heavy, yes, and the bikes themselves tend heavy. This slows a person down, but is less a factor on flat roads. Once you are up to speed, no matter what the bike, maintaining speed is not a big deal. Hills, on the other hand. . ., but that's what the motor is for. With exceptions, the people riding electrics aren't vitally interested in land speed records, anyway.

**Rant Alert**

The assumption that annoys me is that the only reason for getting a bike is for sport and for getting in shape. It is possible to get on and ride for the pleasure of spending a day outside at a leisurely pace. Or to go to the store for a small purchase. Or to meander over to a friend's house for a cup of coffee. Or go out to a nice dinner with your love. Relaxed transportation, in other words, can be a valid goal. Getting in shape doesn't have to be a factor, though it can be a nice side effect.

/rant

shorter me: Figure out what you want in a bike first, then go shopping. There is room for electric bikes, if not in the same space as other bikes inhabit.

One other thing. Where is it written that a person is only allowed one kind of bike? What would be the problem with an electric for general transportation, a LWB recumbent for touring, and a lightweight racer for (duh) racing, or any other mix that you can think of? Fit the solution to the problem.

One other consideration is that e-bikes in most states are regulated differently under the state traffic codes, because you have added a motor to an otherwise human-powered machine, and now you are the driver of a motor vehicle... so there may be a mandatory helmet law, a requirement to have a drivers license for your machine, and you may find yourself banned from multi-use and other bike paths, because these facilities are closed to "motor vehicles."

I'm not against e-bikes, and I have several friends who live in hilly areas of town and swear by their machines in getting around town. And truly, I'd rather see them ride e-bikes than add more cars to the traffic mess. But just be sure what kind of riding you plan to do with it, since the shift from pedal-power to battery power can make a sharp difference in where and how you can ride with it.

Tom
LCI #1853M

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Originally Posted by MomOnBike

The assumption that annoys me is that the only reason for getting a bike is for sport and for getting in shape. It is possible to get on and ride for the pleasure of spending a day outside at a leisurely pace. Or to go to the store for a small purchase. Or to meander over to a friend's house for a cup of coffee. Or go out to a nice dinner with your love. Relaxed transportation, in other words, can be a valid goal. Getting in shape doesn't have to be a factor, though it can be a nice side effect.

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Well said, I agree!

In NZ I ride with a veterans cycle club. So I get to see people aged 60, 70, 80 and 90 plus enjoying cycling, on normal bikes. The 90 year old doesn't cycle hills, he simply does a 25km circuit on the flat around the club house and people who want to can join him. He enjoys being out and about and ctaching up with everyone.

In Singpore e-bikes are a big thing, being imported down from China. They can go pretty fast, 40km+. It was annoying when one passed our tandem when we were doing 35km/hr.

E-bikes have some problems-
They are silent- so you cannot hear them coming. And of course quite a few e-bike riders ride them on footpaths as they are afraid of the roads. Accidents happen and these things are heavy and fast.
E-bike riders often ignore rules- they don't consider themselves car or motorbikes so ride everywhere and don't even wear cycle helmets.
E-bikes often put power in the hands of someone unable to handle it- just like motorised scooters for the elderly, sometimes having power in the hands of someone unable to control it being either too young or frail of health also can cause accidents.

I once worked for a company that tried to sell e-bikes to postal workers. At that time the batteries were not reliable and without power the bike became difficult to ride. It seems that the posties liked having simple mechanical bikes as they knew how to fix them and it wasn't a disaster then the battery failed.

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Originally Posted by MomOnBike

The assumption that annoys me is that the only reason for getting a bike is for sport and for getting in shape. It is possible to get on and ride for the pleasure of spending a day outside at a leisurely pace. Or to go to the store for a small purchase. Or to meander over to a friend's house for a cup of coffee. Or go out to a nice dinner with your love. Relaxed transportation, in other words, can be a valid goal. Getting in shape doesn't have to be a factor, though it can be a nice side effect.

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+2
yes, I've thought about getting one

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Originally Posted by ny biker

I'm kinda stuck on the whole "indignity of walking up hills thing." Regular readers of this forum know that we tend not to look down on people who might need to get off and walk from time to time.

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Thank you for saying that. I haven't met a hill I can't walk up. I haven't had to walk in a while, but it doesn't mean I won't! At least I'm getting up the hill under my own power.

That said...what does Mom want? Does Mom think walking is not OK? What are her goals? Exercise? Transportation? Both? Or are you just looking for opinions?

My opinion (which does not relate to your mom) is that they're a valid transportation option (with advantages and disadvantages to bikes). They don't serve the same purpose, though there is overlap. It's still one less car, but the exercise benefits aren't the same.

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Stoker

E-bikes have some problems-
They are silent- so you cannot hear them coming. And of course quite a few e-bike riders ride them on footpaths as they are afraid of the roads. Accidents happen and these things are heavy and fast.
E-bike riders often ignore rules- they don't consider themselves car or motorbikes so ride everywhere and don't even wear cycle helmets.
E-bikes often put power in the hands of someone unable to handle it- just like motorised scooters for the elderly, sometimes having power in the hands of someone unable to control it being either too young or frail of health also can cause accidents.

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I'm glad you brought this up, since I for one have limited exposure to these bikes (have seen them but have not ridden one or shared traffic with one) -- but I think these are problems can definitely benefit from some public education and safety awareness/classes, much as non-motorized bicycling has come a long way, and continues to. Every now and then I meet another person who thinks it's safer to bike on the left side of the road :eek: and I think these are just typical growing pains as two-wheeled transportation becomes more popular -- we go through a learning curve trying to figure out how to share the road.

Pardon my syntax, I've had a couple glasses of wine :p

I think an ebike is an oxymoron. Why bother? Just get a scooter (as in Vespa not "scooter store chair") and stick to the road.

There's no indignity to walking a bike up a hill. Who cares what anyone else thinks?

I wasn't quite sure how I felt (other than being aware of some snobbery that I knew was kind of inappropriate) until reading some of the comments here.

Now, I know what I think. ;)

An "e-bike" is only marginally "greener" than a 50cc scooter, if at all, considering the much larger battery and the carbon cost of recharging it. A quality scooter will cost more - especially one with a catalytic converter - but a cheap Chinese scooter will price out around the same as an e-bike or an add-on electric assist. Speed and road limitations are about the same. A scooter is heavier, obviously, but that'll help it feel more planted on the road, and no one is really going to want to push either a scooter or an e-bike for any distance - particularly someone who doesn't have the physical capability to ride a bike unassisted. And, if you should run out of juice on the road, it's a lot easier and quicker to get to a gas station than to recharge a battery.

If someone's just looking for practical two-wheeled transport, most scooters offer lockable compartments, and aftermarket hard luggage is available for probably all scooters, which is the #1 factor that makes a bicycle impractical.

If someone chooses an "e-bike" over a scooter, I have serious concerns about their attitude towards safety. Do they feel they can ride an e-bike, but not a scooter, without paying attention to traffic? On the sidewalk? Without a helmet? Without good motor control? Without good leg strength to support the bike at a stop? None of the above are true.

what a great bunch of thoughtful posts.
I confess that I was a little concerned about the mother being able to handle such a heavy bike if she isn't strong enough to ride a regular one. As people become frail, they lose things like strength and sense of balance. combined with an electric motor, that could be a real problem.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

If someone chooses an "e-bike" over a scooter, I have serious concerns about their attitude towards safety. Do they feel they can ride an e-bike, but not a scooter, without paying attention to traffic? On the sidewalk? Without a helmet? Without good motor control? Without good leg strength to support the bike at a stop? None of the above are true.

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You raise interesting questions. I see quite a few e-bikes in Manhattan and haven't noticed unsafe riding. As a group, I'd label them conservative riders (this is just an impression, of course, not a scientific observation). They do ride on the bike path, which is probably technically a violation of the motorized vehicles rule, but they don't cause problems that I've seen.

In Manhattan, and I'd guess in other urban areas as well, e-bikes do offer advantages over scooters. First, you can bring a bike inside an apartment building, so there's less danger of theft. Second, gas stations are few and far between.

I'm not really thinking of the recklessness that characterized the moped craze of the '70s. I definitely remember all sorts of younger people riding them as though they had the power of motorcycles and the maneuverability of bicycles, when neither is true. But you're right, I don't see people treating e-bikes that way - it's a totally different demographic.

I'm thinking more about people who just have no idea how to ride a two-wheeled vehicle in traffic. As we all know, "conservative" is NOT a safe way to ride a bicycle.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

I'm thinking more about people who just have no idea how to ride a two-wheeled vehicle in traffic. As we all know, "conservative" is NOT a safe way to ride a bicycle.

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By "conservative" I mean not traveling at excessive speed, not weaving between cars, not going the wrong way on one-way streets, etc.

Seven years ago, or whenever it was, after a decade of fibromyalgia and inactivity, I started riding again by using an e-bike. They are not scooters. They're bikes. The motor kicks in when the sensor receives a certain amount of pressure denoting increased effort, like going up a hill. You still have to pedal and you still have to work, even when the assist kicks in. You ride them just like bikes and follow all the same rules. It helped me get back into shape to ride a bike-bike. Why would you have "serious concerns" about an e-bike rider's approach to safety?

Salsabike, I have heard of several people doing exactly what you did, and it seems like such a good idea.

I DO have serious concerns about how e-bike riders ride.

The people that these are marketed to (and I know this because I did the marketing once) often haven't ridden a bike since they were a child.

They often still think they can ride a bike LIKE when they did AS a child (ie on the footpath).

Some older people also are concerned at traffic and how fast the cars are (cars were slower when they rode) so they stay on the footpath.

You are putting something that has the ability to go faster than the person would be able to ride ordinary on a footpath and they are pretty silent.

I am not saying ALL e-bike riders are like this, but unfortunately I have seen this happen.

And there isn't like a riding school you can send new cyclists to (well there's probably a few but not many) to make sure they know who to ride in a safe and confident manner on the roads. Most cycle clubs probably wouldn't cater for an e-bike rider as well.

A e-bike doesn't require a license like a motor scooter, so you don't even have to know any road rules before you can get out there and do things (yes, this apples to all bikes), but I just don't like that e-bikes are aimed at older people who have never ridden since childhood and that may not be able to ride in a safe and confident manner.

However the e-bike being used as a way to start being active in a safe and confident manner- that is a good thing Salsa bike.

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Originally Posted by ny biker

Is a "cycling journalist" a journalist who rides a bike, or a journalist who writes about cycling?

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In Heidi's case, it's is both. She gives a good plug for Team Estrogen and and the forums here in the Oregonian today.

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Stoker

The people that these are marketed to (and I know this because I did the marketing once) often haven't ridden a bike since they were a child.

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My perspective may be different because I've been hearing about e-bikes from my dad, aunt, and uncle in Holland. My aunt and uncle have been riding bikes all their lives (I've been on several cycling vacations with them) but are now dealing with health issues that no longer allow them to ride as before. By getting e-Bikes, they can continue riding. And as someone pointed out earlier, the battery is a supplement & only assists when their own pedaling power slows down. It allows them to continue an activity that they've always enjoyed.

The e-Bike is one of the fastest growing product lines in the Dutch bicycle industry due to the aging of the population.

I realize that it's a very different cycling culture over there for sure, not just for e-Bikes but for cycling in general, but the experience does contribute to my perspective.