LHT handlebars/brake levers are TOO big

Printable View

10-09-2009, 07:17 AM
ginny

LHT handlebars/brake levers are TOO big

:confused::confused:
Ladies, I know we have discussed this a number of times, but I need to revisit it...I have a 46 cm LHT with 26" wheels. I ride it every day as my commuter, and I have found that when I ride her for a number of trips a day, I am beginning to develop what feels like an over use / over reach injury in my right hand (probably from using my rear brake at all the lights in town). So, my road bike is a Bianchi Eros Donna and the handlebars on her are Deda Element 4girls - I love them. I am thinking of a) changing to those smaller handlebars on the LHT, and b) changing to smaller hoods/brake levers.

I have looked up smaller brake levers, and I found the Campy Ergo and Shiman STI levers. Here is where I am confused, both of those incorporate shifters, and as well all know and love, Surly's have bar end shifters. I would be happy to switch the whole bike over to campy, but I'm not sure that is warranted with the bar end shifters (what I love about Campy is the sweet shifting and easy throw on my road bike). Um, so can any of you help direct me to just brake levers and hoods for small hands?

This actually seems like it may be a relatively cheap and easy switch... thanks!
10-09-2009, 08:08 AM
MartianDestiny

I'm not versed on any just brake options.

I will say that you can use the combo levers as just brake levers if you want (just don't run the shifter lines to them). My shop owner runs standard Ultegra levers on his fixie that obviously doesn't shift (actually one of them isn't even hooked up to a brake as it only has a front brake...guess there are some advantages to being a shop owner...).

They do of course make brake lever only options that are probably lighter and make more sense. I just have no clue which ones are small or adjust well.
10-09-2009, 08:29 AM
OakLeaf

The particular Shimano model brifters for small hands are R700 for 10-speed or R600 for 9-speed. Anything else is pretty big. As we were discussing a week or two ago, it's still rather hard to shift to a larger chainring with those.

Another thing you might do is search eBay or LBS NOS for pre-brifter Campy levers.
10-09-2009, 08:48 AM
lunacycles

Cane creek makes short reach brake levers in both black and silver.
10-09-2009, 09:05 AM
Buster

I just got my LHT a couple of weeks ago. I had the shop put smaller bars on it, which is nice, although I'm not sure they helped the brake lever reach any. I also have the R600s, but I still struggle to feel comfortable reaching the brakes (my hands do hurt after riding). I'm not sure if I've got the wrong bars or what.

As OakLeaf noted, it's really really hard to shift into the large chainring. I am actually contemplating moving to bar ends to see if that makes things any better! How do you like the bar ends? I really like the convenience of the STI shifters, but it's annoying to not be able to use the big chainring.

I believe they do make brake levers that you can shim - I wonder if that would help?
10-09-2009, 09:38 AM
MartianDestiny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

I believe they do make brake levers that you can shim - I wonder if that would help?

I have standard Ultegra combo levers that are shimmed with the largest available Specialized shim. I run them on Specialized Ruby bars with no issues (and I wear a children's medium in gloves). IMO the bars really make a huge difference as well. Mine have nice deep drops that I can get my whole hand in and really crank down on the brakes, as well as a short reach top so I can reach from the hoods easily as well. The shallow drop bars completely prevent me from getting to the brakes, tried a set once...didn't even have the shop tape them they were so bad.

Shims won't help if the throw is too much when shifting to the large ring though; they only pull the whole lever assembly closer to the bar. I wonder if the shops can adjust throw because I don't have an issue shifting into my large gear (it is a hair reachy, but it always slides right into gear for me. I *heart* my shop...my bikes always run flawlessly (until I wreck them...)).
10-09-2009, 09:45 AM
ginny

Buster,

I do like the bar end shifters. They are surprisingly intuitive. Though, I have to admit that I rarely use the big chain ring either. I have issues with the chain shifting all the way off... I have tried to tinker, but with limited success. I called the lbs (they are great!), and we are going to look at my road bike and my LHT and try to get them to ride similarly... I hope we succeeed otherwise, I may be seeing a 46 cm LHT... :(
10-09-2009, 01:37 PM
Yelsel

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartianDestiny

Shims won't help if the throw is too much when shifting to the large ring though; they only pull the whole lever assembly closer to the bar. I wonder if the shops can adjust throw because I don't have an issue shifting into my large gear (it is a hair reachy, but it always slides right into gear for me. I *heart* my shop...my bikes always run flawlessly (until I wreck them...)).

Shims are available for all the Shimano brifters (except maybe Dura-Ace?). The actual short-reach STIs are fairly pricey, or at least rarely discounted!

I think you / a mechanic should be able to adjust throw. We spent a lot of time adjusting our front and rear derailleurs in the beginner Park Tools class that I took. First we adjusted the upper and lower limit screws; this keeps each derailleur in a limited space, so that the chain doesn't go off the front or back of the chainrings/cogs. Also, the derailleur is set up very close (1/16" / 1mm) to the edge of the chain or cog -- this reduces the throw for the inner and outer chainring/cog. Then we tightened the cables to get the least throw between gears possible before skipping gears, and re-checked the limit screws.

Especially if you are in the first month of riding, take the bike back in for its tuneup... if you never went back for the tuneup, your cables are probably too slack! (Same with getting new cables put on -- you need them tightened after couple hundred miles or so.)

Anyway; back to the original post: putting on new bars and short-reach brakes (any brake brand should work)... sounds like a pretty inexpensive swap. Just make sure the hoods are comfortable... the brake-only left hand on my 9 speed commuter is deeper and pointier than the Shimano brifter on the right, so it is less comfortable. Yay I will be swapping out the levers on another bike to make it a 27 speed -- it is way over 30 lb with commuting crap and 40x25 is just not doing it up the new 8% grade to work, and yay for a more comfortable hood.
10-09-2009, 01:52 PM
Yelsel

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginny

Buster,

I do like the bar end shifters. They are surprisingly intuitive. Though, I have to admit that I rarely use the big chain ring either. I have issues with the chain shifting all the way off... I have tried to tinker, but with limited success. I called the lbs (they are great!), and we are going to look at my road bike and my LHT and try to get them to ride similarly... I hope we succeeed otherwise, I may be seeing a 46 cm LHT... :(

It sounds like either the rotational angle is incorrect, or the front derailleur limit screws are not set correctly -- if the chain is coming all the way off, then just adjusting the cable tension with the barrel will likely not work as a temporary fix.

Look at the section on the limit screws; you can at least temporarily fix the problem by adjusting (tightening) the H / high limit screw, even if the rest of the setup is not optimized (derailleur height, rotation, limit screws, tension). On a newer Shimano derailleur, the high limit screw is usually marked "H" and the low limit "L."
http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=75
10-09-2009, 02:02 PM
Yelsel

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartianDestiny

Shims won't help if the throw is too much when shifting to the large ring though; they only pull the whole lever assembly closer to the bar. I wonder if the shops can adjust throw because I don't have an issue shifting into my large gear (it is a hair reachy, but it always slides right into gear for me. I *heart* my shop...my bikes always run flawlessly (until I wreck them...)).

Shims are available for all the Shimano brifters (except maybe Dura-Ace?). The actual short-reach STIs are fairly pricey, or at least rarely discounted!

I think you / a mechanic should be able to adjust throw. We spent a lot of time adjusting our front and rear derailleurs in the beginner Park Tools class that I took. First we adjusted the upper and lower limit screws; this keeps each derailleur in a limited space, so that the chain doesn't go off the front or back of the chainrings/cogs. Also, the derailleur is set up very close (less than 1/4") to the edge of the chain or cog -- this reduces the throw for the outside chainring and inside cog (for normal road derailleurs*). Then we tightened the cables to get the least throw between gears possible before skipping gears, and re-checked the limit screws.

Especially if you are in the first month or two of riding, take the bike back in for its tuneup... if you never went back for the tuneup, your cables are probably too slack! (Same with getting new cables put on -- you need them tightened after a hundred miles or so.)

*Shimano makes reverse derailleurs for its mountain and touring (Deore LX) groups. You can use a "reverse" front Deore LX to have the front derailleur default to the largest chainring and pull in... but the maximum ring size is a touring 48, and the maximum chainring tooth difference is 22 teeth. It will accommodate a double or triple chainring (48 with minimum 26, an odd size so effectively 28 for the smallest ring... more typically set up as a compact 48/32; or 44 minimum 22, which is a typical mountain 44/33/22.)

Anyway; back to the original post: putting on new bars and short-reach brakes (any brake brand should work)... sounds like a pretty inexpensive swap. Just make sure the hoods are comfortable... the brake-only left hand on my 9 speed commuter is deeper and pointier than the Shimano brifter on the right, so it is less comfortable. Yay I will be swapping out the levers on another bike to make it a 27 speed -- it is way over 30 lb with commuting crap and 40x25 is just not doing it up the new 8% grade to work, and yay for a more comfortable hood.
10-09-2009, 03:03 PM
ginny

Yelsel,
Thanks! I actually have adjusted the limit screws and I think I have fixed the problem... I have shifted the chain off so many times when going fast (because, that's when you shift into the big chain ring), that now I'm a tad hesitant to make that shift...
I also totally hear you about a too heavy commuter...

So, if anyone is interested in a 46cm LHT (2008 model in the grey-blue) with pink planet bike fenders, pink water bottle cage, black brooks saddle... um.. PM me. (excellent sales pitch for the bike, right?) I am beginning to think I should just tour on my Bianchi like I did last summer, and buy a single speed or something light for my around town bike. I think I'm just too ...um, slight (?) for the beefiness of this bike. I have been coming to this conclusion, and it's a bummer, but the wrist thing seems to have brought it home for me... oh, also I have studded tires for the 26" wheels - if anyone is interested, um, we can discuss the studded tires too...
10-09-2009, 03:12 PM
Yelsel

If you're willing to let the studded tires go separately, I'd love to get them. Might need to wait until the next payday though -- I've already spent my allotment of "getting ready for winter commuting" dough for these two weeks. :P
10-09-2009, 06:00 PM
KnottedYet

What a heartbreaker, selling a bike because of a brake lever!

I know someone who rides 42 and 46 LHT (and likes the blue color), I'll give her a shout. Have you settled on an asking price?
10-10-2009, 04:51 AM
OakLeaf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelsel

I think you / a mechanic should be able to adjust throw.

It's the spring tension/shifter mechanical advantage, mostly. That's why downshifting isn't an issue. Throw is pretty minor. Since the brifter pivots, the throw gets shorter the closer you move your fingers to the hood, and could be eliminated as an issue. But the leverage is also reduced, requiring you to exert even more force. At the distal end of the lever - where you have the most mechanical advantage, therefore where most people without super-strong fingers and forearms are going to be shifting from - yeah, the throw is pretty long.

As far as adjustment, even if the H screw were set too far out, the throw required to accomplish the shift isn't going to change, only the distance the lever is capable of moving. Your #1 problem in any case would be dropping the chain to the outside, but if you can't muster enough force to even get the chain on the big ring, then it's irrelevant that the FD is capable of moving farther given someone with the strength to push it.

There have been some suggestions here that Dura-Ace systems are easier to shift than Ultegra (including R700) or 105, but some debate as to the reason... since I am innocent of exposure to Dura-Ace componentry I can't comment. ;)
10-11-2009, 04:49 AM
dianne_1234

Could the high hand force needed at the lever be something unrelated to the STI lever itself, like sticky energy drink under the BB guide, or some other friction source?

In the past I've lowered the shifting force needed by changing a softer plastic BB guide for a genuine Shimano one that seems to be made of harder plastic.

Here's a pic:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=230380347490

From the description there:
"A worn cable guide can hamper shifting just as much as old cables."

I'm guessing your new LHT doesn't have a worn one :rolleyes: but if it's a different brand or type of plastic maybe it's worth trying a Shimano one?
10-11-2009, 05:53 AM
OakLeaf

Quote:

Originally Posted by dianne_1234

Could the high hand force needed at the lever be something unrelated to the STI lever itself?

Maybe in individual cases, but in general people (myself included) mention this issue with brand new complete bikes, and with brand new shifters/cables/housings professionally installed. (Plus, if that were the case, then the FD would be balky to downshift as well as hard to upshift.) It just takes a lot of force to upshift 105/Ultegra FDs.