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So what if you rode with a group out of a bike shop, led by the owner. Then the owner banished everyone from riding out of the bike shop. Saying liability. Only to find out 4 months later the owner is posting rides only specifying the rides leave out of the parking lot across the street? I don't get it.
he probably spoke to his insurance company. sounds stupid to me too though.
It is probably something in his insurance policy. It is possible that if they leave from elsewhere that they might not be considered shop rides. Who knows... the lawyers are very particular, and people try what they can to work with what their policy states.
That's exactly it - insurance. I just had the same discussion with the woman at the motorcycle shop. They can't hold "shop rides" anymore.
and the reason why policies like these change is because one (or more) person sues and wins big time. so all the insurance actuaries notice the blip and change what they will cover.
My bike shop leads rides every Saturday. They make you sign a waiver before the start.
The LBS my boyfriend manages has anyone who rides out of the store on a group ride sign a liability to cover the store.
There is a local gas station that won't allow cyclist in with the cycling shoes because they were told the cleats are slick and therefore cyclists may slip. The store is so scared of lawsuits they have a sign that says you cannot enter with cycling shoes.
A year earlier a group tried to formalize waivers for him, he wouldn't hear of it.
The bike shop owner came out one day and cussed everyone out and banished us. Now he only invites some people and not others. After this several people tried to get him to do the waiver thing again and he said no. So now people meet by invitation only and across the street. They still use his bathroom, his water, air, etc. Odd. And he says there are no rides out of the shop. But he still advertises rides.
He is one of those men who hugs and kisses the women and sometimes his hand will slip. He says the women he rides with now understand his touching is meant in a harmless way.
People have splintered into several groups now. Most of the groups are doing quite well. I guess it still stings though.
ughh..... there are so many other group rides. Why bother with the lecherous man? I'll ride with other like minded people. If his hand slipped on me, you can bet he would have coon eyes. :cool::D
smilingcat
Yeah - what cat said - seriously creepy dude. :mad:
He's a fool. Because all that advertising and enabling could make him liable. So, he's risking his neck and alienating people at the same time. Dumb.
Liability waivers don't protect someone from being sued. They become part of the defense in a lawsuit, but the time and cost of litigation can still be very material, even if you win.Quote:
Originally Posted by ny biker
Frankly, I feel sorry for the LBS that has to walk that tight rope.
I wouldn't spend my money at his store any longer and I would find another group with whom to ride. Sounds like this person has some issues that make him worth avoiding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honeypie
For our shop rides, my spin classes, and any outdoor class we sponsor (kayak, canoe, hike, ski, etc), we have a standard waiver that has been approved by our attorney. My bike ones are worded a little different to cover the use of a helmet. When participants ask me why they have to sign, I say it covers us from them being stupid. This usually gets a few chuckles.
aside from other issues that make him sound like a creep...
I just stepped down from presidency of a bike club. The liability thing, coupled with how your insurance policy is written, is a very real issue for organizations. Who hosts a ride, where you host it, what you call it, whether you charge for it all that can factor in to whether your liability coverage will ( most likely) be in effect. I'd put my money on the ride changing from a "shop ride" to a "pickup/informal" ride to try and work within a policy.
IANAL, YMMV etc.
The guy sounds really ewww, yuck. It almost sounds as if he got rid of the group rides because he groped a woman who was on the ride and she complained. Maybe she threatened to press charges and that was the "liability"? You're probably better off if you ride with one of the groups he's not involved with.
I wouldn't ride with that guy because he sounds like a moron. But, liability was a big issue for AMC a couple of years ago. Not because of a lawsuit, but before, rides were always led with the knowledge that sometimes everyone didn't stay together, although we always have to have a sweep. The lawyers could not see the difference between leading a ride and a hike or x country skiing. We do have everyone sign a liability release. After 2 years of arguing, the executive committee said they would be "lax" in interpreting the rules for us. But, a lot of the cycling leaders quit. What we do is clearly state that if you go ahead of the leader, tell us and you are "off" the ride, and there is no liability involved for us.
In reality, there have been a couple of times that both my husband and I have told a couple of people to go ahead on the climbs because they were hammering at a pace that was not conducive to the group. When I had to do this, I was leading a hill ride that I was supposed to be the sweep on. But, my husband had a medical emergency, so I had to lead a ride on a 95 degree day, with about 2,000 feet of climbing (Lost Lake in Groton). I knew a couple of the guys could climb faster than me, so I appointed my friend's husband to keep them under control and wait for me and the rest of the group. It worked out fine, but it was sort of skirting the rules.
Seriously, there is no way I would ever patronize a store like that. And I'd be sure to tell my friends to stay away, too.
Like which? Creepy guy who creeps out women, or requires a liability waiver? The first is easily avoided, the second is more or less pretty standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by ny biker
The one who thinks that groping women is okay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irulan
Someone should ask how he would feel if a guy did that to his wife or his mother. Or his daughter.
you can't reason with someone who believes he's done nothing wrong. we had a guy fired from here a few years ago who was like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ny biker
Wasn't there a thread a few months ago regarding a woman who had endured that kind of treatment from an LBS employee, and then followed through on reporting it? I just can not understand not doing something.
Yep - but it was an employee of a chain (I think a mechanic). This is a shop owner - I'm not sure there's much you can do, except not shop there and tell others not to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irulan
Liability issues, I get. I'm a lawyer. Rude people who know no limits - I don't.
CA