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I haven't driven a car at night in quite a while, but now that it's getting dark out, I have a question for those of you who do drive more often: When you drive by a cyclist out at night, what things are most visible?
I'm thinking from a "what should I invest in more of" perspective: Reflectors everywhere? Or more blinky lights? What's most eye-catching as a driver?
both! we have blinkys everywhere AND reflector tape. We bought the reflector tape at a marine supply and put it all over helmets, bike, and bike gear.
And remember, a car's lights aren't always going to be on you, so you must be lit up yourself.
I'd say "both" too.
And, one thing I'm always struck by (not literally!) is how DIM some cyclists' tail lights are. If you are going to put a light on the bike...be sure to check it every so often...make sure it's not obstructed...and make sure it is BRIGHT (replace those batteries if it's getting dim...or get a more modern light that is brighter). DH and I will check lights and reflectivity on the bike in a darkened room (the laundry room or garage, usually), and take spins down the neighborhood street to get a "real road" test every so often.
I, too, have lots of both. I can, on my own, light up an entire two-lane road, edge to edge.
I'm really more curious what drivers notice as most attention-getting of all the stuff out there. Also, I'll add this question about placement of stuff: Where are reflectors and lights most effective from a driver's perspective?
Good lights are worth the investment. I was hesitant to spend the $$$ on a rear Dinotte, but since then I've had tons of cyclists/drivers/peds come up to me and remark how visible I am.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...otographyl.jpg
Up front, I have a TriNewt and a Dinotte helmet light for good measure.
The Nathan reflectors work well from the side. I'm less confident about the Lightweights tape/reflectors. I did some experimenting in pitch darkness and they are considerably less visible than the Nathans.http://www.teamestrogen.com/renderIm...=650&padding=0
EDIT: Nathan also makes Reflex wristcuffs in the above material that is super-reflective (TE doesn't carry them). They are self-wrapping and have no velcro, which is nice as they don't mess up the sleeves on your jerseys. They also make the L.E.D. bands
Anything that moves. Wheels, and crankarms are good "bang for the buck" because the movement catches your eye. I have reflective tape all over my crankarms and Lightweights (lightweights.org) on my spokes.Quote:
Originally Posted by kfergos
A red light on the back of the helmet gets my attention, especially if there are cars, etc., blocking my view of the rest of the bike and rider. The reflective strips stand out well. I'm sure the blinking lights get people's attention, but I imagine they're annoying if they're too bright.
One place most cyclists are missing visibility is from the side! I worry a whole lot more about someone pulling into me out of side street than being hit from behind. This year I got some TireSparx - they are blinky LED lights that screw onto your valve stems. They add a lot of side visibility. I gave some to my husband too and he's had several cyclists and even a driver comment about how noticeable they are. Not only that, they are relatively cheap. Two sets, plus valve stem adapters (they come threaded only for schrader valves, so you have to get schrader to presta adapters) cost me under $25 and they each came with an extra set of batteries.
For the past two years I've gotten together with a bunch of other cyclists and we've compared lights/reflectors to see what works and what doesn't. Those Dinotte rear blinkers are very bright! Some of the other things we've determined:
you definitely need both lights and reflectors - reflectors have to have a light shining on them to be seen, lights can be much less effective when there is ambient light (cars and streetlights)
most people have all of their lights down low - having some lighting on your upper body is good too - it gives a better impression of your size and shape to drivers.
Point your headlight at the ground - its no good to blind everyone with it (especially other cyclists...) and the beam on the ground is actually a good cue for others to see you are coming.
Check your LED batteries often - its no good if the blinker is so weak that no one can see it, and make sure you aren't blocking it with your trunk rack, back pack, etc.
white/yellow/light colored clothing really does little to increase your night time visibility - don't rely on it to keep you safe.
oh and one observation I've made recently- I cross a bridge on which the bike traffic goes both ways with auto traffic on my left coming towards me. When cyclists are backlit, they can be very invisible!! even with lighting, though a bright headlight, especially a blinking one, helps a lot. You'll also be lit like this if someone is turning out of a side street - they may very well see the car headlights and miss you in the mix... so be careful when you see a turning car, they may really not be able to see you.
I have SpokeLits in my wheels ... only problem is I forget to turn them off, and so it seems the batteries didn't last verylong. Going to replace them (but they cost almost as much as the spokelits whihc are only about seven bucks) and see how long they last.
TireSparx are motion activated and turn off less than 30 seconds after you stop moving - pretty cool and saves the batteries.
This is a really good thread! Second the be seen from the side (roundabouts... *shudder*) and anything moving. I'm not a big fan of the ultra-strong lights, I've met too many cyclists that I thought could be motorcyclists or insane car drivers with one working headlamp, on the bike path...
I used to ride in to work in total darkness. In addition to a small front light on my handlebars and a red flashing light on my trunk, my secret weapon was a us coast guard approved waterproof strobe light attached around my upper arm on the traffic side with a velcro strap.(the kind you would activate after abandoning ship, bobbing in the ocean in your life vest) That thing has an incredibly bright and frequent flash. It was great on my dark and lonely ride into work - cars would give me WIDE berth (I think they couldn't tell exactly what I was, but they could see me from a long ways away and they would give me plenty of room, never a close call) However in traffic, I think it would probably be a dangerous distraction. My commute takes me an hour where I live now. Somehow leaving the house at 515 am does not appeal....Tokie
Well, not quite a driver's perspective...but speaking from a cyclist riding up a hill a bit behind another cyclist in a residential neighborhood......Quote:
Originally Posted by kfergos
The first thing I noticed on this guy was a flashing light on his helmet. It was up high and very visible.
Hmmmm...I just uglied up my helmet with reflective stickers last night...perhaps I'll have to see how I can attach a light to my helmet, too.
I got a cheapo hiker's headlamp from Job lot and zip tied it to my helmet for winter - what's nice is when my head moves, the light moves. I also have a headlight on the bike, and a red taillight, and reflective tape all over the place. If I'm going on the long commute, I'll wear a mini mag flashlight on a necklace over my back - it illuminates my high-vis jacket (which has reflective piping) and my bag, which also has reflectors. I also wear reflective ankle straps.
It's still not enough.
But I'll tell you, we drove on Halloween out to Western CT on route 44 - a "country drive" on our way to a b&b weekend. A few country towns were having Halloween events for kids and there were trick-or-treaters all over the place. You just can't see people. They just blended right in with the trees, parked cars, whatever. Put refective tape on your kids' Halloween costumes, PLEASE!
My night commute supplies...
2 valve stem LED's - green
1 red rear flasher/reflector combo
DOT grade red reflective tape on my fender
1 red flasher on my messenger bag
strip of reflective material - bottom of messenger bag
1 white flasher on my messenger bag
1 strip of silver reflective material on messenger bag strap
1 steady white headlight
1 flashing white headlight
1 reflective leg band
reflective material on the heels of my shoes/shoe covers
I've been told that the light attached to my helmet is highly visible and *grabs* the attention.
Motion is the first thing that attracts the eye... We do some night-riding classes as part of the LAB's commuting curriculum, and one of the first things you notice out on the road is the up-and-down motion of things like pedal reflectors, those little reflective ankle bands, and even reflective highlights on the backs of shoes or tights. Not only do these things help a following motorist to see and detect you, but the peculiar motion helps them recognize you as well --- "that's a bicycle." No matter how "dorky" they may look, pedal reflectors and/or ankle bands are Good Things, and I've gotten zealous about using one or the other, or both. My road bike pedals (SPD-SLs) don't have reflectors, so I'm pretty consistent in keeping a pair of the ankle bands in my tool bag for when I'm out after sunset.
Bright lights are excellent... Amber is actually more visible than red, but the law in all states say that you need a red tail light or reflector. Blinking lights add perceived motion to help attract the eye, but motorists can't judge distance well on a blinky light -- having a solid, steady light or reflector back there will help them judge their distance from you a lot better. I've been using two tail lights recently, one a Planet Bike Superflash for visibility and early detection, then a steady red Cateye light for contract.
...and by the way... remember that a significant percentage of us menfolk are red-green color blind. These folks can see the light, but not exactly the color, and may be a little slower on the recognition cycle...
Those reflective vests like the ones used by highway workers help a lot to make a human form stand out, and help others to recognize "bicycle... person!" more quickly than say, those little reflective highlights on the tail and sleeves of bike jackets.
Lastly, a good headlight that will let you clearly see where you're going, and in return, let others see you coming... I've been running a pair of Cateye EL-320s all summer that have been really good lights to see and be seen by; when the DST changed last week I took advantage of a sale at the LBS and invested in one of those new Light & Motion Stella 200Ns. I really like this light... When I run it in "Ninja Detection Mode" (e.g., "high") it's like having a spotlight pointing out there, and still a little over 5 hours of battery life, or drop it down to "low" and it's like my (backup) Cateye, with around 20 hours of battery. It also operates in flashing mode when I want to be ultra-conservative on battery power (~ 80 to 100 hours on a charge) as well as be ultra-obnoxious with the blinky light...)
Tom
I agree. The other night, I passed a woman near campus. She had reflectors on her panniers, a non-flashing light under her seat...and I almost didn't see her. She was wearing dark street clothes with no reflective materials either. I almost stopped to tell her how hard she was to see, but was afraid that I'd freak her out by stopping:eek:
I was trying to figure out why it was so hard to see her and Tom said it well - MOTION would have made all the difference in the world.
When I'm driving, I notice reflective stuff in my headlights before I'm close enough to see lights on a bike.
The bigger the reflective surface, the better. And moving reflective things are also better.
The Massachusetts Bike Coalition has a couple of video clips on-line to show an example of what catches the eye at night... often used in safety classes.
From the front:
http://www.massbike.org/police/mpg/nightfront.mpg
... and from the back:
http://www.massbike.org/police/mpg/nightrear.mpg
(Warning: these are some whomping big files if you click on the link...)
But do note how the pedal motion shows up, as well as the reflective vest and human form...
I have done a lot of geeking out lights and such within the last year on here. If it would help, you could try searching my user name and lights maybe to weed out some more recent discussion on this.
OK, as already said... things that light up, flash, and *move*. I don't know how this cyclist got his gear like this, but in the end I made my own to match...
I saw a man with reflective bands on his ankles, with red lights, and they blinked. Very noticable when he pedaled particularly.
One company I love is Road ID (stuff on here also about them). They make the IDs lots of folks wear, but also mini lights called FireFlys. Batteries to match sold dirt cheap from their site.
I already owned a FireFly, and a Road ID wrist after coming so close to being road kill one evening at dusk with just reflective stuff on. Then, I made my Firefly blinkie ankle bands out of two products...
I took two refletive ankle bands. Like what can hold the Road ID on your ankle if you prefer. But, I tore the band apart and sewed on a couple FireFlys in the IDs place.
This made the band the appropriate product (soft, long enough, etc.) for the ankle. But, by permanently sewing the blinkies on (without inserting the clip that comes with it) I do not worry about them unclipping and getting lost, or stuck in the gears, etc.
For added side visibility, I have thought about adding white Fireflys on my reflective wrist bands. White near front of bike. Red in back of course. I think if you were to arm signal, it would catch the drivers attention by your lite up arm motion.
BTW... Road ID's customer service IMHO is awesome. One of my purchases, the FireFly clip broke when I went to snap it into the base light. I called the lady at Road ID, and she said their returns department is literally a shoe box on the corner of someone's desk. No problem. She would send a whole new product, plus a pre-paid return shipping envelop, that day to me. Just whenever I had a chance, mail the broken item back at their expense. Now, that is what I call standing behind your products after the sale!:cool:
I am definitely going to pick up a few of these -- I think they're great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluetree
My morning commute takes place loooong before the sun comes up (4 a.m.) so I am all about nighttime visibiliity. I have a Superflash flasher in the rear, a bright headlight, and reflective stickers galore (on my helmet; on the headset, fork and chainstays of my bike; and on my wheel rims). Plus I have my stinky Illuminite jacket ( :p ) that lights up like crazy when someone's headlights hit it.
Great ideas! I can’t really add much to it as we have reflectors on every thing attached to our bikes, dual bright LED lights, and dual flashing LED taillights, reflectors on our helmets and gloves, etc. I got some great ideas from this thread too - some “goodies” I will be adding to my bike. Working nights, I can tell you that alot of people ride bikes at night and totally disobey the crossing lights - just ride right out in traffic with little or no reflectors or flashing lights of any kind. Total idiots INHO. But there are the ones who commute who make darn sure they are seen by drivers - and late evening riders like my DH and me. DH made a special lightweight horizontal bar that fits to the rear of our rack between the two rear panniers and added dual taillights. The width of the panniers and the dual lights are easily seen and give a wider profile at night. We are of the thought that the more visible the better. We have had riders dash across the street in front our cars where the only thing that shows up is their sneakers and socks!!
Leaving the house tonight in my car, we saw a kid coming down the street on a bike. It was pitch black out and he had no headlights (or helmet for that matter) and my headlights didn't catch any reflectors that he may have had. But he DID have Tire Sparx and they really did catch my eye immediately. He was probably about 150 feet away when I first noticed him. It was impressive how bright they were, and there was no mistaking that it was a cyclist headed in my direction.
Sarah
I have both reflective gear and lights on my bike and helmet. I've had bus drivers who have commented on seeing my lights when I was out after dark and watching for a bus coming behind me so I could pull over. The light set is made so you can wear them on wrists or in this case, I ran the straps through my helmet vents pointing the white forward and the red to the rear. I usually put them on blinking then my headlight on the bike steady. Sometimes my bike tail light is solid, but more often it's set to blink as well.
http://thebikeline.com/itemdetails.cfm?id=2128 Trek
Glo Headlight & Ember Taillight Combo
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...etlights07.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...etlights04.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...etlights05.jpg
http://thebikeline.com/itemdetails.cfm?id=2128 Trek
Flare 7 Taillight
http://thebikeline.com/itemdetails.cfm?id=2631 Trek
Ion 6 LED Headlight
I also wear ankle biter reflective straps one on my wrist and one on my ankle on my left side facing traffic.
When I'm using my new kitty litter bucket panniers, I have a large red reflecter on the backs and amber on sides and fronts. I plan on adding reflective sewn on tape to the sides of my tights that I've made for colder weather riding and more reflective material to my helmet. I've never been worried about looking like a dork as long as I'm seen. :D:D:p
this seems like a good video on the subject.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epZdXfvrRmU
We have a local guy who has put reflective stuff and lights on every surface of his bike and himself. It is actually too much. It makes you focus so much on him, that it's distracting. (What happens when you look at that hole in the road as you approach it? You run into it. You drive or ride where you are directly looking.) He takes a lot of chances that most riders wouldn't because he is so lit up. I've seen him cut across 5 lanes of traffic at night in rush hour on a busy road when he could have crossed at the light just 150 ft away. Nuts!! Light up, by all means, but don't assume you are totally safe.
Lots of riders here in Portland. The best advice I can give is to light up the sides too, not just front and back. It's nice to have a blinkie up front in the dark as well as a solid. It differentiates you from cars and motorcycles. Lit strips catch my eye. Cars don't have long reflective strips typically.
Please..please pleeeeese have your front lights on solid. I can't say how often i am blinded year round by cyclists who don't understand what *t's like to have one pointed directly at me/etc. You do know how hard they are on the eyes..:eek: AGHGHGH..
Don't tell me you can actually see with a blinking white light..:confused:
Just have the front white light on solid..please!!!
I have a similar thing from Adidas. They're convenient to slap over jeans or sweats when I'm riding my commuter a little ways, and they'd probably be okay on the wrists over a LS jersey as long as there's enough length in the sleeves, but they chafe like CRAZY over socks, light arm warmers or bare skin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluetree
They loosen up a bit if you store them snapped flat rather than rolled up, but the edges will still dig into your skin (and I've got pretty small wrists).
Good point. Actually, I ride with one light on solid and one on blinky just before dark and switch both headlights on solid to see better once the sun has set.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycanuck
I find that I can see cyclists better if they have a flashing white light.... In the city at least, with all of the other lights around, a flashing white front light identifies you immediately as a bicycle. A steady headlight can look like other things... I prefer to use a steady headlight to see with and a flashing one for safety myself. Of course all lights should be positioned so that they are not directly in the eyes of other people. My steady headlamp is aimed at the ground and my flasher is more straight on - but it is not a super bright HID light...
After playing around with the Stella for the past week or two, you actually can see pretty well with the light on strobe/blinky mode. It's the oncoming ninjas and other folks that catch heck...Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycanuck
One of the main reasons to run the light in blinky mode is the power savings on your battery... whereas the Stella and similar lights will run about 5 hours on steady bright (full power), it will run nearly 100 hours on a charge in blinky mode. Most of your "good" lights are only useful for about 2 hours on a single charge; if you're going to be out for awhile and aren't sure when and where your next charge is coming from, you can stretch your lighting a substantial bit by running in blinky mode. The Stella, Vega, and similar lights run on a steady strobe (which can definitely be annoying from the opposite side of the trail); the Dinotte models will blink in different pulses, which is just as visible, but less irritating.
What I've found to work well for the average commute or night training/recreational ride is to run a steady white headlight, and then have one of the small Knog lights on the handlebar running in blinky mode. Good light to see by, and it's not as irritating to your fellow trail users.
Light pollution (not only from bike headlights and folks like me who like to try and burn a hole in the ozone layer with my lights) can be a problem. Unshielded parking lot and especially stadium lights can blind you to what's actually out in front of you on the trail. Motorists will hit you with their bright lights trying to figure out what that is way up in front of them.
If you're blinded by someone else's oncoming headlights or overbright street lights / athletic field lights, don't look directly into the beam. Look off to one side and use your peripheral vision. I wear an MTB helmet most of the time when I'm out at night, and the advantage is that it has a visor, and I can use that to help block a blinding light, sort of like a sun-shade in the car or the bill of a baseball cap. Another handy trick to protect your night vision is one that I learned as an artillery officer at Fort Sill's School of Fires: Close one eye. Yep, it’s as simple as that. When you’re in the dark and headed for a bright spot, or vice versa, close one eye for a half minute — once you get to back into the dark, open that eye and you’ll have your night vision and will be able to see that pedestrian or the patch of loose gravel.
Tom