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I know very little about the differences in types of bikes so I've come to the experts.
Can I find a mtb that weighs about the same as my Trek 7.6 FX hybrid? ~20 pounds?
Is it the suspension system that makes them weigh more, that is, if they do?
Can I use a mtb for my bad/cold weather commuter bike and will it give me more road stability in bad conditions compared to my hybrid with 700X32 tires?
Thanks for your input.
MTB has a heavier frame to stand up to it's intended use.
You'll get your stability from changing tires and going for a more agressive tread but you'll increase rolling resistance.
my trek hybrid is a 7200. My neice's 7.2FX is much lighter than my trek. My new gary fisher wahoo mountain bike feels lighter as well!
vickie
Down from about 28 pounds you'll pay about 1000$ extra for every kilo less....
20 pounds is sub-10kg and that's gonna cost you. Lots. As in Carbon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinerabbit
or titanium. I've got a ti singlespeed that weighs in at 21#
1. Yes, but it will cost a fortune.
2. Yes. Hardtails generally weigh less than full-suspension, all other things being equal.
3. You could and it might, but I'd consider changing the tires or buying a second second of wheels and mounting different tires. I don't know what tires you're running now or how bad "bad conditions" might be (depends on your comfort level), but that will definitely have an influence on tire choices. Personally, if it's snowing, raining hard, or anything resembling ice, I'm driving or taking the bus.
Something else to consider as you shop: does your MTB have the requisite braze-ons or eyelets to mount your rack(s) and panniers for sloppy-weather commuting? Some will, some will not.
How exactly do you define "bad/cold weather"?
How much snow and ice are considering riding on? How much calcium will be on those roads? If any, you may want to consider a "winter bike", i.e. a cheaper bike that you will not be too sad to see quickly deteriorating as you ride through the winter snow-abrasive-calcium slush.
For stability, you'll be fine with tires with a bit more thread to them. I don't think a mountain bike would give you much of an advantage there, unless you plan on starting to jump over snow piles... ;)
Pardes, I did a quick check on the tires the 7.6 has--700x28. I would shop for a different tread (like an all-season tire) and possibly go up to a 700x32, if it will clear your brakes. A wider tire will give you a little more stability but may not make much difference in extreme weather conditions.
Also, mountain bikes are awkward to handle compared to road bikes and I know you load your bike on the bus. Just a thought.....
Great answers! Thanks so much.
I don't plan to bike for very long (time-wise) on icy/snowy roads but I would still have to get to the bus stop. I have several choices of buses and times but on really bad days the closest bus stop is only 0.7 mile from my house. I would be walking that anyway if I didn't have a bike so I'm going to be "out there" anyway I go.
I see that mtb is not the way to go from your comments.
I like Becky's idea of changing out the wheels but I may be limited with the Trek 7.6 FX. As it is now with the tires I have, it's a VERY small distance to the racks.....we are talking millimeters....but maybe with smaller tires???? I see I need to consult Howard at Bikeline to see what can be done with the bike I have.
I also like Grog's comments. Sure, jumping a snowbank would be a trip! :D If I can't adapt what I have, you are probably right about getting a cheaper bike that might get very salty coated before our winter is over.
Thanks again. Now I can start window-shopping and heckling the bike stores.
It's not so much size as it is tread.
32's should be fine.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...iretread-1.jpg
Zen, how much would the extra tread slow me down? In other words would the difference be enough to not consider using the extra tread tires year round? Speed isn't the issue for slowpoke me but road resistance that makes it harder to bike is.
Hmm, how much more does the mtb type tread slow you down (and also jarring with suspension w/o a lock out option)...
A guy in a lbs finally described what I wanted to say about this very thing to a dear GF who wants me to do paved bike paths with her using my mtb...
"I feel like I'm going no where fast".
I told the shop guy he nailed it right on the head of how I felt about it too.
For a mtb I own a Trek wsd 4500 hard trail (only front end suspension and no disc brakes--good stopping power in wet conditions, but heavier brakes).
About this time last year I think, there was a lovely thread of someone's beautiful "slush queen" bike a lbs built for the gal. She got much "oooo & ahhhh" and was said to be too beautiful for slush. But, her owner said it was her destiny... so be it. I might dig around for the thread. Can you tell she left quite an impression on me as well?:o Thinking... maybe it would give you some ideas for modifications on how to make what you have work better or something.
I was thinking you could fix up a cheap beater bike as suggested with those tires. I have a 25yr+ bike in my garage that would make a nice beater bike. But, she's steele... and if you load her on the bus as posted, that could really start to sux pretty quick (she's soooo heavy, much more than my current mtb). Going to search for the "slush queen"...
EDIT: Below is the link to the thread with the "slush kicker" she was called, not queen... I was pretty close on the wording...
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showt...ighlight=slush
Miranda, thanks for that link. :)
I'm currently outfitting my '05 Sequoia with a mountain cassette, derailer and bigger tires for my off season riding. I think it's a great idea to have an older bike as a back-up bike for rainy days and such. I hope others enjoy theirs too.
It's such a lovely bike... I could see the pics of it perfectly in my mind before I even found the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by sundial
:)
pardes, this seems like a great excuse to go test ride some mountain bikes!! You may heft some of them and decide they are not for you, but it never hurts to ride various types of bikes.
vickie
Yes, thanks so much for the link. Now that I have Firefox I won't lose the link as I have been doing recently.
Zen, I'm going to track down your tires. (What an odd sentence that is....I think I've had too much coffee and too many websites. Everything is beginning to look a little odd.)
A slight digression.....
I've read that one of the first signs of dementia is that things begin to look a little odd. And then even a little more odd......
I was visiting a nursing home with Magdalene. We were blithely walking down the hall to my Mom's room. Another resident tied in her wheelchair reached out her hand to Magdalene so I stopped of course. It generally took me half an hour from the front door to Mom's room because everyone wanted to pet Magdalene.
As the woman reached out just to about touch Magdalene's paw, she pulled back her hand and screamed, "Get that panther away from me."
I'm not sure who was more startled by the moment: the woman, Magdalene, or me. I think we all peed our pants. I know Magdalene did.
After that incident, I learned that if you take things very, very, very gradually with dementia patients, sometimes you can reach them without startling them. Magdalene became the best at this. She would sit with her back to the patients as if they weren't even there until they approached her.
[IMG]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...aleneDesk1.jpg[/IMG]
Magdalene's panther paws at 8 weeks of age.
Sorry for the digression. I need more coffee.....more websites.......
Truely vicious looking dog you've got there Pardes. :rolleyes: 1 L of dog!
That picture is a hoot. Leave it to a scientist to take a picture of their pup in a 1000 ml beaker
Pardes- change out the tires. Do you have v brakes or disc? See the reason I ask this is that v brakes in wet conditions are sketchy for me and I wanted to keep the same set up as my mtn bike so I don't have to relearn it as I bounce between the two daily. With that, it makes your bike heavier.
My bike is 28 lbs and is full suspension. I bought a Gary Fisher Utopia which is about 38 to 40 lbs unladen (commuter bike- it's a hybrid).
On the mtb I can get cruise comfortably at 7 mph. There is no bob with the suspension, you would never know you are on a FS until you hit a speed bump.
On the hybrid, at first, with 'cycle cross' tires, I was up to 9 mph cruising. And it was alot of work. The guys at the bike shop talked me into slicks, and now, I'm cruising at 12 mph. Big difference. So I would say go with the tires. Even on a heavier bike (and sometimes really heavier after the grocery story- once I had 60 lbs in the baskets) I go faster than on my mtn bike with knobby tires. And the Gary has a front fork suspension. Which was kinda of dumb for me to get because with the slicks, I never hop curbs.
Now if you want to be hardcore die hard ride to the bus stops, you can get Nokian studded tires. You won't be going very fast though. I would sacrifice speed for contact with the road. I'll be switching the slicks over when it gets nasty..I have Nokian studs but I don't ride on the road with them but I guess you could if you really wanted to.
BMCCASLAND and MUDMUCKER -- Magdalene begs* to differ with you. (She was a bit huffy* about it.) "Tell them I am a 2L dog, count them 2000 millileters, not a puny 1 L Chihuahua midget dog!" Just because she took a correspondence chemistry course from "Keep Your Dog Occupied During the Day University," she thinks she's Watson and Crick, Jonas Salk, and Albert Einstein all rolled into one.
The day I bought her there was a snowstorm predicted. I was supposed to pick her up after work but I knew we were going to be snowed in by mid-afternoon. So I raced to the breeder on my lunch hour, picked her up, and hid her in my lab cubicle for the remainder of the afternoon. However it's hard to hide a puppy in a lab.
I still regret that I didn't bring home her brother too. He was black and had this incredible sweet dome head and liquid brown eyes.....
Back to the bikes......
UFORGOT and TAHOEY suggested Gary Fisher bikes. Bless them both for taking the time.
How very odd since I scoured the Gary Fisher website yesterday and came up dry and then magically their two suggestions appeared this morning.
I've narrowed it down to 4 bikes, well 3, I think the "Simple City 8W" is just a nod to the fantasy that Magdalene would actually ride in the basket peacefully unlike the last time I tried it and she screamed to any passerby, "I'm a kidnapped German princess who is being tortured held against her will!"
Here is the link to the four bikes compared. TAHOEY votes for the Utopia and UFORGOT loved her Advance. The listing of components makes my head spin without a clue.
In case the link doesn't work, they are all Gary Fisher bikes: Utopia, Montare, Advance Step-thru, and Simple City 8W.
Which bike has the best components, the lowest granny gears, is the most lightweight, and can have fenders and racks attached?
* I can't believe I'm making bicycle and dog puns in the same paragraph. Where are the off-topic police when you need them?
Oh I love that Gary Fisher Simple city too! Haven't seen one, but I'd really like to try one out! A fantasy for me too, as I already have a perfectly good Raleigh that was in showroom shape when I found her on Craigslist.
Pardes...I sent you the Advance link before I read this thread. Somewhere else you indicated you wanted a step through mountain bike. I used the Advance strictly for off road. Heavier with front suspension and it isn't particularly rack friendly. From this thread, I can tell you that I had a Trek 7.2fx with 32c tires and it rode through everything. Those tires are bomb proof and I rode in the snow and rain with them just fine. I wanted a bike that I could ride skinny tires and fat ones also, so I wound up selling the Trek and getting a Surly Cross Check. I have two sets of wheels and just change them out. You could do the same with the Trek. Slicks for summer and something beefier for winter, but honestly, if you have those same tires I did, the Bontrager 32c tires, you should be fine. Something I think should concern you more is perhaps getting disc brakes for wet conditions? Just a thought since I hate telling anyone what they have is fine. We all want to shop for a new bike, you know.
Yup, I have the 700X32 tires with extra diagonal tread for throwing off water. They will probably do just fine in Delaware.
Thanks, I shall look into disc brakes. Anything to convince me to buy another bike. Right?
Don't get me started on Watson and Crick.
They stole everything from Rosalind Franklin.
Yes, they did indeed. Even if she was falling apart, they could have included her in some fashion. But I don't consider that treachery.
I often wonder if the situation was reversed would gender have made any different in the outcome. I'm in the scientific community and I have to say the treachery, every "man" for themselves gene seems to be equally shared between the sexes.
It is claimed that women work better in community and their committee results are often more "compassionate" than men in the same situation. Again, from personal experience in the scientific community I have not found that to be true.
I really think negative traits are equally shared in the same way positive trails are shared.
The only difference I see is that it is generally only women who discuss the topic in any depth. I think that is a very positive thing to continually examine the whys and wherefores of our actions and deep-seated beliefs and motivations. Many men lead examined lives as well, they just don't share the process in the same way.
Pardes- I'm not totally happy with my Gary Fisher, so I would vote to get a simple Specialized Hardrock with Disk brakes (or is it disc? hmmm). The GF is a bit pricey and I don't really like the components. The SRAM set up (I can't remember which one) has given me nothing but problems-I'm getting ready to swap it out with a Shimano Deore.
Thanks Tahoey, I'll check it out.
In fact you almost answered a question I was about to post that would help newbies like me to shop for bikes.
Question:
If you look at 1) a top of the line bike, 2) a midline bike, and 3) an entry level bike, what problems are you likely to encounter with each. In other words, is it worth it to be a higher level bike if you can afford it? If you buy a bike at a mid level or entry level, what parts are likely to not be so good or should be replaced immediately?
I think you pay for a lighter bike and better/quicker shifting components. One of the reasons I sold my Rockhopper to a friend was so that I could get an Epic that had hydraulic disc brakes and better shifters. Oh, and the full suspension too. I had toyed with putting better components on the Rockhopper but knew in the end I would prefer a full suspension bike. I've been very pleased with my decision. I think that if one can, one should consider the mid-higher end models.
Sundial, how much would you say your Epic weighs? I checked them out online and found a dealer that is local. Which particular model would you recomment in the Epic line?
If you wait for the 09's, there is a significant weight drop, say from ~24 to ~21.5 lbs in the Epic, but I don't know if it's available in the mid-range (expert) or higher range (marathon). Specialized hasn't updated their website yet with the new bikes but it's rolling in the shops now.
You might want to also consider the Era if you fit a women's specific design. It's the women's version of the Epic. It is designed to be lighter than other WSD mtb's for that reason.
I have the '08 Epic Comp and it weighs about 24 lbs. I do think about some day upgrading to the Marathon series to get the bike in carbon fiber. But I also remember that lighter sometimes means it won't absorb as much shock if you barrel down a mountain, lol. I exercise the dogs with it and I banged my body around with it in a race and I have to say I'm more than pleased with the performance--excellent handling, good brakes, and rapid shifting. It's not too bad to lift, just kinda awkward compared to handling carbon fiber mtb. Say, you don't have one of those in your steed yet, right? Hmmmmm. :cool:
Thanks, Sundial. We have a local distributor and I'll go heckle them for a while. However, the last time I was in their bike store, they didn't even acknowledge my existence....as if I was invisible, so I left. Perhaps they thought I was someone's grandmother who had wandered in by mistake.
Having just looked up who the local dealers are, I'm not surprised.... I think I've feuded with every LBS in northern DE :DQuote:
Originally Posted by pardes
BTW, isn't the Epic full-suspension....?
Ooooh, that would prompt me to be even more persistent about showing them! You know, one of the perks of being older and wiser is you can get by with a whole lot more stuff than people your junior. ;) That includes miffery. Miffery is giving them the audible "Hmpf!" and, "Well I guess I don't need that measley carbon fiber mountain bike after all. Maybe I'll go to that OTHER bike shop." ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by pardes
Did I tell you about the awesome mountain biker that left EVERYBODY in the dust? Know what? SHE was in her 50's. And she could haul her happy hiney anywhere she wanted and nobody could keep up, lol. She raced with the experts (all pro roadies that were men). I want to grow up to be like her. :) I'll bet some bike shops misjudged her and wanted to write her off.
Don't let them write you off. You march back in the store and you get that bike of your dreams. If you want a full suspension bike with bells and whistles then you show 'em! Heck, call Running Mommy. She offers EXCELLENT customer service and has some dandy mountain bikes at her store. And I'll bet she'll throw in a hunk to ride with you on the trail. :D
Pardes - your Trek 7.2 will be just fine until we get snow. Then.... do you really want to be riding your bike? If so, change the tires to something with a little more agressive tread (snow tires if you will). Or give yourself a break and wait for the snow to melt before venturing out again. If you really really want to ride in snow, wide knobby tires, the biggest that you can fit, and FENDERS will make winter commutes bearable.
For more, check out the Ice Bike thread in Bike Journal - there are many many posts there by people that do this every day in very cold climates.
But really, your bike will serve you well.
Now if you are looking for an excuse for another bike, and have the space to keep it.... by all means, get a beater bike and studded tires if you like for the snow. But I can hardly believe you would want to buy a nice new bike and ride it in snow and salt... and then have to clean the bike every couple of days for the pleasure of riding in the snow. Remember how messy your car gets when driving in slush? Transfer that to you, your clothes, your panniers, the contents, not to mention your drive train.....
For more, see the Ice Bike website:
http://www.icebike.org/
The clean up alone keeps me from riding voluntarily in the rain/snow. If it happens while I'm out there that's one thing, but ......
Pardes, I read through this thread again and I guess we need to know exactly what your plans are for a new bike? Are you going off road or strictly bad weather commuting? The Epic with the full suspension would be if you are planning to jump logs and ride technical trails wouldn't it? Not exactly a commuter for racks and panniers. You don't need any suspension on a commute. It just makes it harder to ride and the bike heavier.
I'm with withm on this one. When it snows and gets yukky here in Missouri, my good bikes don't leave the garage. I take my cheap craigslist commuter out.
Edit: I was thinking, the way you like to tour and take pics, I would be more inclined to just use the Trek as a commuter and get a Rivendell Glorius (or velo orange) mixte loaded with racks for your photo trips and traveling. Here is one off of the Rivendell bicycle site. www.rivbike.com
Uforgot, you made some valid points but I'm thinking that Pardes is weighing the choice of winterizing her Trek FX and/or buying a mtb for fun stuff to do year round. Am I right, Pardes?
I'm not really sure, that's why I asked her to post what she wants to do with it. Initially I thought she was going off road, but I'm not certain anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by sundial
Pardes???
I have been rather sketchy in describing what I want since I wasn't clear myself. After reading all the posts and weighing the pros and cons this is what I want.
I want a high-quality, lightweight, full-suspension mountain bike for the dirt trails that the Trek just can't maneuver. If mtb's are built to take punishment, it should be fine for bad weather days (snow, etc) that are infrequent here. I would be using it for weekend rides and a few randon in Winter and frequent in Summer weekday rides when I want to do a run after work.
I want a bike that is more stable in rain or the infrequent snow/slush/ice that we get in Delaware. (Those days I would ONLY bike to the one of many bus stop where it is only 0.4 miles away that I've have to walk anyway.) But again, snow/ice/slush/salt would be a rare event. (My lips to God's ears.)
Since snow/ice/salt/slush is very rare in Delaware I don't think it would require having a cheap beater bad weather bike. Of course, when my ex-husband, then new husband lured me to move to Delaware by promising that it never snowed in Delaware and one week after I arrived there was a snowstorm (1976) that shut down EVERYTHING for over a week. The snow was 2 feet high! It paralyzed the state. Since then there has only been one really bad ice storm so for 33 years we've been relatively snow/ice/freezing rain/salt free.
Since I've gone totally GREEN, I really need a second bike if the Trek is in for repairs or maintenance. I no longer use the car for anything. (Speaking of which I must remember to start it now and then and let it run to keep the battery charged. I'll try to remember to open the garage door. :o)
So from what I've been seeing for pricing, a very good full suspension light-weight mountain bike seems to be in the range of $2000 for a mid-level high range category. So that is what I'm shopping for. I've been loving the advice you've been giving on particular models to look at or avoid. Thank you very much.
So you full-suspension people tell me what you love about your bike brand.
Thanks again.
I don't have a full suspension mountain bike, mine is front suspension only. You could consider a front suspension mountain bike with a suspension seat post maybe.
I do look at the full suspension ones, maybe some day. Right now I am so in love with my chocolate bike that you couldn't trade me a $2000 bike for it right now.
I am having so much fun with it that I think everyone should have a mountain bike. Even if we feel out of place out on the trails with all the young guys.
vickie