bar problem

So...The Volpe came; Mr elk LOVES it...Now... After he took the drop bars and flipped them upside down so it looks like an antelope. The brifters are in the same position only higher...so he has hoods and the bar and and the space before the levers which curves down towards him.

I got him an adjustable stem w/the bike and he has that angled as high as it can go...but it wasn't enough. His seat, at the right height, is just above the bars. And at the right fore/aft was too far away from the bars for him.

He just wants to sit up higher...I'm not sure I like the aerodnamics of his solution...and think we can find a safer way...until he's ready to try the drop bars.

So. Available Materials, Possible Solutions. Oh....and he wants to KEEP the brifters. A google search revealed that moustache bars and brifters have worked together well.

get a new stem?
get a new headset?
get different bars? what kind? moustache?
:confused:

I have no suggestions beyond a mustache or possibly an albatross bar and a longer stem.

However I would like a picture of his current setup. :p

I'm not sure moustache bars are really going to end up being more upright. Many people who are converting older bikes to moustache bars end up putting a taller stem on it to get the bars up higher. And I know on my commuter, putting moustache bars on ended up stretching me out more (to reach the brake levers in the curves), which was fine, because it was a tad bit short in the top tube for me, but I think I could still use a taller stem to get my bars more even with my saddle.

You could try flipping some moustache bars over, so they rise up slightly, instead of dip down. Or, if you can find a way to make the STI levers work with albatross bars, that might be a better bet. (Or talk him into bar end shifters on albatross bars, which would probably be your best bet.)

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Originally Posted by elk

So...The Volpe came; Mr elk LOVES it...Now... After he took the drop bars and flipped them upside down so it looks like an antelope. The brifters are in the same position only higher...so he has hoods and the bar and and the space before the levers which curves down towards him.

I got him an adjustable stem w/the bike and he has that angled as high as it can go...but it wasn't enough. His seat, at the right height, is just above the bars. And at the right fore/aft was too far away from the bars for him.

He just wants to sit up higher...

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The volpe is a road bike, right? It's hard to set up a road bike to have you sitting totally upright. A touring bike (like your Jamis Aurora) or a hybrid would have him sitting more upright.

What is likely happening here is that his body is rebelling against the new position. It feels extreme to him, and very uncomfortable and awkward. This body adaptation can take weeks of riding, during which some feelings of discomfort and oddness are common. In the end, he may feel very comfortable on it or he may not. But one thing I can assure you of- his body is going to try to make the change if given some time on the bike.

When you say that the seat is just above the bars, do you mean the top of the bars where they connect to the stem, or the top of the bars in the new antelope position? If you mean in the new position, if I'm picturing it correctly, it sounds like the frame may be a bit small for him...

I'd also like to see a picture of this setup - that may help us to make recommendations.

Lisa the volpe IS a touring bike...very similiar to my aurora....and it may be a wee bit small in height but not in reach....so we'll work with it...
He has also NEVER ridden drop bars and his body is mashed from cleaning out his father's house last week...so.... We need to just get those bars higher than the saddle....here: his seat height BTW looks very like the photo detail of the bike on the Bianchi http://www.bianchiusa.com/893.html

Given the pic, I would say albatross bars or a straight bar with a bit of a rise. I don't think he could keep the brifters with either of these options, but as he adjusts to the more forward positioning there's a good chance he'll want to go back to the drop bars.

here's the Bianchi photo..odd set up for a touring rig...

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Originally Posted by Flur

Given the pic, I would say albatross bars or a straight bar with a bit of a rise. I don't think he could keep the brifters with either of these options, but as he adjusts to the more forward positioning there's a good chance he'll want to go back to the drop bars.

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why couldn't you use brifters?

Brifters and MTB levers each work on a different type of bar. It's all about where the shifters sit on the bar and the ergonomics - you couldn't even push the levers with the design of some bars.

A good place to look at bars for the purpose is Soma's website because they carry both Nitto bars (such as the Albatross and Moustache) and Soma-branded bars made by Nitto.

The Albatross will not work with brifters, but the moustache will.

http://store.somafab.com/handlebars.html
http://store.somafab.com/nialbarcr.html
http://store.somafab.com/nimobar.html

As you are reading up on all these bars, note that many of the North Road style/3-speed bars that mention mtb levers do not have space for full mtb shifters and brake levers; they have space for mtb-style brake levers and either bar ends or bar ends mounted in Paul's Thumbies.

Also note that some of these bars have a much bigger rise than others (the Soma-branded bars are lower than the comparable Nitto bars). Some of these bars also have a big sweep back toward the saddle and are available in different widths.

Are you near Portland? I was told that City Bikes Co-op has an excellent selection of such bars. I would guess that they also have stems with a larger rise and could probably give you some good advice.

All this could mean new bars, new shifters and and a new stem but you could possibly set up his bike similar to this nice Bleriot (which has bar end shifters mounted on Paul's Thumbies on an Albatross bar). The owner of this bike calls it his "Sit up and Beg" bike.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/h...t/IMG_0095.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/h...t/IMG_0092.jpg[/QUOTE]

Elk, I didn't know the Volpe was a touring bike, sorry.

I have to say that Volpe does look pretty funny with the upside down bars like that! :rolleyes: :p
Ok here is my first impression from looking at that photo, though I may be wrong....

first notice on the Bleriot the saddle height in comparison to the top tube, and the bars about the same height.
Now look at where your DH;s saddle is- like way up in the sky in comparison. We are assuming he has the saddle height set in the correct place for the length of his legs.
When I see saddles that high up, it says to me that if they had a bigger frame then the saddle could be in a more 'normal' place. On a bigger Volpe his saddle would be the same distance from the ground as now, but the stem and bars would be higher up because of the longer head tube and larger frame in general. The seat would be closer to the top tube even though it would be the same height from the ground.
In summary, getting the next size up frame would probably bring the bars up closer in height to the seat, consequently giving him a more upright riding posture.

i know you said that this was the right sized frame for him, but when I see that photo of the upside-down bars and the saddle looking so very high up in proportion to the frame, it suggests to me that the rider is too tall for the frame. Again, I may be wrong. But something is wrong here, one way or another.
Please don't take this the wrong way- I mean to be helpful- but perhaps your husband, in wanting a smaller frame and super high grips, is seeking a bike that will feel like sitting in his favorite living room recliner? Some people experience initial oddness and discomfort on a new bike as being intolerable for even a minute. Perhaps this is what's going on?
I am thinking he might be happier on a lightweight hybrid for a while.

Why not just use this?

http://aebike.com/page.cfm?action=de...=30&SKU=SM1977

It's an extender for your steering tube. You can raise the bar about 3 inches!

SadieKate - that's a really cool bike. It looks like a lot of fun to ride. Have you ridden it?

Yes:
--part of him wants a barcolounger with wheels; the other part is thrilled to be using his body in a more athletic way
--we live in PDX and I got my Jamis at citybikes....we'll head down there today! and to river city
--the Bleriot is LOVELY, but I'm not sure we need to take the set up that far from where we are...because I think
--that steering extension tube is the key...
--probably the larger frame would've been better...but if you look at the stock Bianchi photo, notice the relationship of the seat height to the stem height; it looks very like where his is....which is an odd stock photo for a touring bike, doncha think!
this bike is a wee bit bigger than his hybrid and the geometry is similiar, so I think once we raise the bars, he'll be comfortable and will want to adjust to a more aerodynamic position.
I do believe he wants to be able to use the drop bars...we just have to get them level with the seat, or a little higher.

your observations and suggestions are always helpful..:)

now i want to go look at the Aurora stock photo and see what they have going in the seat stem relationship department...even on my 47 aurora the stem is quite a few inches longer than on the 58 volpe

SadieKate...thanks for those links to Soma

much less difference in height:

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Originally Posted by Flur

SadieKate - that's a really cool bike. It looks like a lot of fun to ride. Have you ridden it?

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No, it's owned by someone on another forum. I remembered it and thought it would be a good example of the Albatross bar.

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Originally Posted by elk

SadieKate...thanks for those links to Soma

much less difference in height:

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Ok, now imagine you were suddenly 5" taller than you actually are and were trying to ride your same Jamis....you'd have to put the seat way up higher so your legs wouldn't be all bent, right? And then your saddle would be much higher than the handlebars, you'd feel uncomfortable and too bent over, and your LBS might say- hey that frame is too small for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BleeckerSt_Girl

Ok, now imagine you were suddenly 5" taller than you actually are and were trying to ride your same Jamis....you'd have to put the seat way up higher so your legs wouldn't be all bent, right? And then your saddle would be much higher than the handlebars, you'd feel uncomfortable and too bent over, and your LBS might say- hey that frame is too small for you.

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i was comparing the STOCK photos of the volpe and the aurora...if you go back to pg 1 and scroll up you can see the Volpe pic I took off the Bianchi site vs the pic I got off the Jamis site.

those elkhorn bars really, really need to go.

how about something like this: an ergonomic handlebar -


http://www.moobix.de/einsteiger/fahr...rgolenker1.jpg

only pic i found is of one with adjustable angle, there are others out there. the brake levers will have to go as well.

Yeah, I agree, I don't think that's a safe way to ride.

I hate to suggest this, but is your husband really not interested in drop bars? Not everybody is. Many people ride very happily on hybrids and never want to "upgrade." Sadie Kate offered a really good compromise, I think, but maybe it is just not his bike.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elk

i was comparing the STOCK photos of the volpe and the aurora...if you go back to pg 1 and scroll up you can see the Volpe pic I took off the Bianchi site vs the pic I got off the Jamis site.

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Well, as Xeney kind of suggested, I too suspect your husband is not going to like a drop bar position no matter what. He might well be happier all around on a hybrid. Hybrids are generally not as heavy these days as they used to be, and have more nice features. :) It would be good if he'd be willing to test ride some bikes.

He is interested in drop bars... I think they just need to be at least the same height as his saddle....

If it doesn't work out...we'lll go from there...

and I agree about the "elk"horns....I've almost got him ready to take it to the LBS....:rolleyes:

He might like one of these:
(just pulling your leg now....) ;)
http://www.cambridgebicycle.com/asse...ngray_bike.jpg

It sounds like the Volpe might not be the right bike for him. The geometry may just be such that the handlebars a too low. Maybe a more compact geometry that allows the same standover clearance and reach but that has a higher headset would work better. Not all touring bikes are built the same - maybe a different maker would be better for him.

we took it in to the LBS...the mech. is going to get the stem up and help with fitting....he didn't think the bike was too small. some do some don't...;)

i left him the aurora to put in the brake shims....

I am not DF savvy, but how about the "albatross" or some other Riv bar?

http://www.rivbike.com/products/list...l#product=none

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elk

we took it in to the LBS...the mech. is going to get the stem up and help with fitting....he didn't think the bike was too small. some do some don't...;)

i left him the aurora to put in the brake shims....

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How is he going to raise the stem? With that steerer extender I mentioned?

rij

maybe use the extender...we did give it a look and it seems like a very useful little dealy!

We might just get a longer stem...as long as the bars are at the same level as the saddle...we'll be good to go...to start.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elk

we took it in to the LBS...the mech. is going to get the stem up and help with fitting....he didn't think the bike was too small. some do some don't...;)

i left him the aurora to put in the brake shims....

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I'm glad you are taking it to the LBS, hopefully they can figure out what to do.
It's possible they can just raise the stem from where it is now without having to use an extension- perhaps it's set way low right now.

You are going to love those shims. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elk

rij

maybe use the extender...we did give it a look and it seems like a very useful little dealy!

We might just get a longer stem...as long as the bars are at the same level as the saddle...we'll be good to go...to start.

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So whatever happened with this? I'm curious to see the solution...

just got it back yesterday with a new stem that has a 125mm angle. It is another adjustable stem so he can experiment./adapt with reach and height; it brings the bars on level with the saddle. I'll take a photo later.

We used a Dimension stem (QBP brand). It's a pretty sexy looking bike!

One of our papillons has pneumonia :( and so it's been back and forth to the doc; i knew when we took him in yesterday morning that would be the day the bike was ready...it always seems to work like that. You;re all excited...and the thing is ready on the day when something bigger than the excitement happens. Although it did cheer us up for sure!

Oh your poor poochie! :( Is he going to be okay?

Looking forward to pics of the bike.

Yes...I believe so...we discovered he has a "mega esophagus" which is exactly like it sounds and he's been getting fluid in his lungs...poor little guy...
It means elevated feeding, experimenting with different forms of food (dry, gruel etc) .

He's SO happy when he's with his dad....see:)