Tension Relieving Responses...

Yesterday, Silver and I were riding with our friend Dan (who just turned 60). We stopped at a convenience store in the small town of Elberfeld that we frequent.

While Silver was inside, a 6+ foot, 280 lb BUBBA (with FATBOY on the front license plate of his pickup) gets out of the truck and blurts out

"I'm going to stick those bikes up your D*** A****!

My response: "I'm sorry, did we do something to offend you?"

Of course, this led to a testosterone laden conversation which may have ended with me becoming one with my bike:eek:...although I truly sensed that this guy was just a bully but smart enough to know that we had photographed his license plate (and emailed the picture home for posterity...).

Anyway, testosterone laden conversations are not usually the best things at a time like this - :p - OK, I'll admit it... "Hi, my name is Mr. Silver and I'm a HOTHEAD sometimes":(:o;)...and I'll admit that there was a better way to handle this...but it's not until later that you think of the better things to say. For instance, Dan came up with:

• Well, after 49 miles, it already feels like this bike is up my **** ***:D:rolleyes:
• I'll be glad to do that with my 20 lb vehicle if you do it with your 4,000 lb vehicle:eek:
• I'm riding 100 miles today, do you think you might be able to do 100 yards?:)

Remember, I'm 5'7" (after getting off my inversion table;)) and down to 163 lbs now (heading to 153)...

Some would say "just say nothing", but I'm not that type. So help me come up with clever but disarming lines to lighten a moment like this...

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Originally Posted by Mr. Silver

...smart enough to know that we had photographed his license plate (and emailed the picture home for posterity...).
[/B]

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Very smart.

I like all of your responses. So did Mr. Crankin, who is also 5' 7". It IS probably better to say nothing, but I'm with you, I would say something. I can't figure out why people on bikes causes such rage in some.
Around here, it's more likely to be someone driving a big American car, like a Lincoln or Dodge, smoking a cigarette, on their way to the local spa (liquor store) to buy a six pack.

I thought the phenomenon of the Bubba was a southern thing. I guess they've migrated northward though. ;)

If someone who doesn't know you gets out of his vehicle already angry with you for an unknown reason, probably nothing you can say will defuse that situation. Think about it: even if you try something like "Sorry, buddy--just trying to get in a little exercise," he's going to think you're trying to make him feel bad about his eminently exercise-free self. No matter what you say, he's going to take it badly.

I know it's hard to clam up when someone verbally attacks you with no provocation, but when we're out on our bikes, we're pretty vulnerable, so best to avoid conflict as much as possible.

No, there are Bubbas everywhere.

Raleighdon (at 5' 7 1/2") would have probably responded just like you
and then gotten very loud and ur, then he would have repeated a lot of words he learned in the Marine Corps.

Now, if it was me... I would have said, "I'm sorry; but you're going to have to catch me first" or something. nah, i'm never witty in a pinch; I'd say "Hava nice day"

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Originally Posted by mimitabby

I'd say "Hava nice day"

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That's a good response...albeit ungratifying:)

For the record:

• I didn't raise my voice
• I wasn't profane
• I used a firm tone, but remained calm

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Originally Posted by Crankin

Around here, it's more likely to be someone driving a big American car, like a Lincoln or Dodge, smoking a cigarette, on their way to the local spa (liquor store) to buy a six pack.

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Oh, so you saw him too????:D

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Originally Posted by BleeckerSt_Girl

Very smart.

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Probably the smartest response :cool:

then I'd say "well, sorry that you feel that way and that you're about to do that. My photo of your license plate has been sent to a cops e-mail address. I can send a message that I just thought it was a witty license plate. Shall I do that now? :D Or do you want it to be the last thing from my phone? I'm sure you sit in front of the TV with a beer and pork rinds and watch a LOT of CSI :rolleyes:"

But seriously you don't know who/what you're dealing with out there and odds are real good that person is not well. I imagine being sedentary and that overweight he may be in a lot of physical pain. People are angry. They are mad about their jobs, the price of gas, they're mad about American Idol voted off their favorite .... people are angry, they get in a big truck, maybe he just filled up his tank ..... and there you are :(

It does not occur to them that we're not the problem, we're part of the solution.

Lastly I'm not a psychologist nor do I play one on TV but the nature of his threat, to cram the bike up your azz I think reveals some unresolved emotional issues. I think a man who is confident in his heterosexuality (I presume he's straight, or thinks he is) might think something along the lines of "you'd never catch me in lycra but ya know maybe I could use a little exercise. Maybe I'll get back to the gym or run or sumthin''".

And then say something like that to you and you could tell him "get MTB shorts! They are baggy." And challenge/offer to get him started cycling like you helped your other friend the one who fell on the tracks. How's he doing BTW?

I say he's a closet case. :cool: They are really the worst when it comes to overt threats, verbal abuse, violence and acting out. But again, I would not mention that to Bubbah ;-)

Best thing to do .... get outa the way.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Silver

Well, after 49 miles, it already feels like this bike is up my **** ***:D:rolleyes:

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LMAO! That one almost made me shoot my morning glass of Tab out my nose. :D

why even dignify it with a reply? Nothing good can come of it. I know, wanting to reply really appeals to the inner caveman/wanting to protect & defend mode... but nothing you can say or do would changed his attitude, so why bother. It might make YOU feel better, but that just feeds into self justification and self righteousness ( the attitude of I'm right and he's wrong)

Take a deep breath, blow it off, and enjoy your day.

Really the best response! You may have dodged a close one but don't let it ruin your ride. Let it go like water off a ducks back :cool:

You can't argue with these cyclist haters. Nothing you could say or we could come up with would change his mind, and most of it would escalate the situation.

I had something sort of like this happen on Friday...some guy followed me down this steep hill near my house...very heavily travelled road, no shoulders, the kind of road where you need to get out and own your lane. This guy in a hummer was very upset that I was in the middle of the lane (although I was going speed limit...35mph) and followed me into the mini-mart and started to berate me and all bicyclists for being self-centered, ego-centric snobs who don't know the rules of the road, and how the next time he saw me on my bike he was going to "take you (me) out". I looked around at all the people standing around looking on and said "Really? Do you realize you just threatened my life with about 25 witnesses standing around?" Then the clerk said that her security camera had caught him tailing me into the parking lot with him leaning out the window yelling at me...luckily she had happened to glance at it. He looked rather angry, but drove off without any other exchange of words. Probably not the best course of action on my part, but hey, I'm a bit on the feisty side.

Needless to say I was a bit pi@@ed off and scared. Now I feel like I have a big ole bullseye on my back when I'm out riding. People are jerks.

It took me about 15 miles on my own ride this morning to come up with this response:

"You'll have to kiss my a** first!"

But, no one ever wants to beat up a granny with a squeaky voice. ;)

Karen

"I knew I was getting a little fat, but do you think my *** is THAT big??"

When I was a high schooler, I worked at the drive thru at McDonald's. An out of stater (sorry California, you weren't represented very well that day!) got furious because we messed her order up.

I had to take the second bag (fixed order) of food to her outside in the waiting lane. She proceeded to lay it on me - used some of those drunk sailor words - I don't know where I came up with it, but I responded with a shrug and started faking sign language. Not the bird or anything crass, but like I was really trying to communicate with her via American Sign Language. She was dumbfounded. I was very satisfied and had a great laugh!

I think that comes under both the clever and disarming category!

Has your heart rate returned to normal??

Somehow, I think it would be hard to kick @ss while in spandex and slick hard soled cycling shoes. I am imagining something from a movie (was it Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon??) where you are freeze framed throwing your bike through the air with a Sidi karate chop to Bubba's mug. Paints a funny mental picture!

We have lots of Bubba's in Columbia...just last week two of them harassed Melalvai's 12 year old girl while they were out riding. I heard from another friend that another one yelled "ride your f------bicycle on the sidewalk" to a 10 year old boy in town as he rode to school! It takes a REAL man to harass kids on bikes.
I tend to get offended and fired up in a hurry so it's very hard for me to stay quiet. I have been counseling myself to say nothing...I don't want to get shot! I think there are a lot of folks on the verge of going postal these days and it will get worse as the economy declines. I've been practicing the "ignore and conquer" technique but if the guy harassed me in a parking lot like you experienced....I would have talked back in a heartbeat!!

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Originally Posted by Flybye

I don't know where I came up with it, but I responded with a shrug and started faking sign language. Not the bird or anything crass, but like I was really trying to communicate with her via American Sign Language. She was dumbfounded. I was very satisfied and had a great laugh!

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That made me laugh out loud imagining what you must've looked like. I guess it wouldn't work when riding a bike- but it might. Too funny!



What a jerk, Mr! Sounds like you handled it well enough- and I liked all the responses you posted- especially the one about after 49 miles it already feels like your bike is up your *#@. Funny! I never think of clever things until after the moment, but those are all good to keep in mind if the situation ever comes up. I like the sign language thing, too. I know just enough ASL to make it seem like I could be deaf. ;)

But really, guys and gals. We should be easier on the cars we slow down. It must be really frustrating to have to wait, oh I don't know... 10, 20, even a whopping 30 seconds to get around a bike. It must be sooooo hard on them when we cut into their precious time so much (insert extremely sarcastic tone and rolling eyes here). People in cars need to just RELAX!

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Originally Posted by Tri Girl

But really, guys and gals. We should be easier on the cars we slow down. It must be really frustrating to have to wait, oh I don't know...

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I know you're kidding here, but there is a note of truth here as well. Here's what I do:

• If someone is patiently waiting to pass me, I wave them through when I see it's clear (which is usually before they do)
• When they pass carefully, I give them a nod or a thumbs up
• When someone is stopped at a cross street and letting me by, I give them a nod as well.

Notwithstanding my confrontation yesterday, I do still see myself as an ambassador (albeit one who doesn't take cr@p).

The local club (which we're not part of) has notoriously poor manners on the road...and that's what he was reacting to. Unfortunately, he was attacking a few of the good guys/gals and not the ones responsible for his frustration.

You are dead on, Mr. Silver. I experienced this today on my metric with a club I belong to, but don't lead for. So many rude riders. Mr. Crankin finally yelled, "get in a single line," because we had yelled car back so many times and they were *still* riding 3 abreast.
Yea, I saw the same guy as you on Saturday, in Groton, MA...

You're right, Mr. Sometimes cyclists are TERRIBLE examples of how to share the road. We expect it to be shared, but sometimes we hog it all up. The other day my club did a TT around a local lake. While waiting for the start, the group took up the WHOLE lane. The couple cars that came up behind us had to wait to get around the group. I'm sure they were frustrated- I was getting frustrated at the group in the road (and said something which was brushed off with a rude comment from one of the club "jerks"). We need to be just as courteous to drivers as we expect them to be to us. It only takes one ignorant cyclist to get the 20 drivers around them to hate us all.

The most disarming thing you can do to someone is try to understand their point of view... i.e. "Cyclists around here been frustrating you lately?" It's really difficult for someone to stay angry when you respond by trying to understand them. I'm far from perfect at this myself, but it can help diffuse tension and may make them a little more tolerant of other cyclists in the future.

Still laughing from the first response... "After 50 miles..." :D

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Originally Posted by blondiebiker

The most disarming thing you can do to someone is try to understand their point of view... i.e. "Cyclists around here been frustrating you lately?" It's really difficult for someone to stay angry when you respond by trying to understand them. I'm far from perfect at this myself, but it can help diffuse tension and may make them a little more tolerant of other cyclists in the future.

Still laughing from the first response... "After 50 miles..." :D

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You are right on the money from a counseling perspective. If you add "man, you are really ticked off, cyclists around here been have been frustrating you lately" he won't have any idea what to say. Sweet.

The after 50 mile response just happens to be my favorite as well.

Well, speaking from the other side of the gender divide, a clever response usually doesn't work any better with these types of people. What one gets back is something along the lines of "how about if I just &&& you instead?"

One of our cyclists, who commutes and travels across a bridge, was recently told by a Bubba that he's going to "teach them a lesson the next time there's one on the bridge". We have those people with a missing chromosome here too. :rolleyes:

I also agree that having the cell phone out is the best response... it changes the dynamic from "big guy in a truck anonymously asserting his dominance" to "what I'm doing is going public."

*sometimes* the right verbal response can relieve the tension but boy, you'd have to have darned good intuition or dumb luck to assess the whole psychology of the situation (which of course you would do without 'profiling,' eh?) and come up with the properly disarming response.

I usually try to have witnesses to the altercation. Sometimes it's best to let them blow steam and go away. At other times, I have a "talk" with the person.

"Dude, own a house? and is your dually fully paid?" "good, keep it up and I'll own your house and your pkup" Usually a dim light comes on inside their amoebic brain, with "F you" and other explatives and they drive away. Being an avg height woman (bit on the short side), the angry knuckle dragging visigath don't dare lay their hands on moi.

Now on the other hand, if the rabid, foaming in the mouth, visigath looks homocidal, I usually try to find witnesses and then say, "sorry I was in your way. Next time I'll be more careful. " It's not worth getting killed or be hospital bound over who is right. I ain't proud. :D just not worth it.

Sometimes, letting angry person "walk over you" is the best recourse. I usually go for a potful of turkish coffee afterwards to calm my nerve and be angry over for being violated. Still better than be crippled.

smilingcat

I usually just ignore the guy. DH would chase after him and try to start something :mad:...

Honestly, we've run into more "Bubba's" here in Oregon that we did in North Carolina. We just were talking about this yesterday. Where we rode in NC, there were always a few drivers annoyed at us, but in general, it wasn't too bad. Here in Oregon, people seem fairly considerate in town, but get out into the country and we've been stunned by the hatred & violence. It's unreal!

Yesterday we were out riding and a big white pickup gunned their engine, drove way too close while passing us and then swerved to the right in front of us. Since he hadn't given us much room when he passed, his right swerve in front of us actually had him off the road. He barely managed to bring the truck back onto the main road before a huge ditch. I was so hoping that he'd have ended up in the ditch! I would have laughed my a-- off at him!! All in all, there was no reason for his anger. We were the only cyclists, there was no traffic, we were riding single file, and it was easy to pass us (and he didn't have to wait at all). I find their violence alarming.

I've been thinking about this in spare moments when I'm not getting mad/upset/freaked out about losing-my-fellowship situation (and I've completely forgotten about the For Sale sign in front of my [rented] house). Here's what I finally came up with.

There's a big difference between how you respond to someone who has harrassed you on the road and is now long gone, and someone who has actually come after you to confront you. The first is frustrating because you don't get a chance to respond, but definitely the best course is ignore it, not react, at the most get a picture or report it, but certainly do not try to chase them down or bother responding at all. I used to have certain responses rehearsed like yelling "cager" or "I love you" just to let out my anger (they can't understand my words any more than I can make out theirs), but now I just flat out ignore everything and make a mental note of a license number. This is as important a skill to develop as, say, coordination or taking the lane. And it doesn't come as easily.

The second is just downright scary. Now, I do want to be an ambassador for cycling. I want these people to ride bikes. Maybe Bubba will never touch a bike (other than to violate someone with it), but I have a suspicion that my former friend, who did grow up in rural Missouri, might have had a touch of Bubba in him, because he kind of dropped a hint once that he may, in a former life, have done his share of cyclist harrassing. So it is possible that Bubba may one day ride a bicycle.

Is there anything we can do to make that day come sooner without risking ourselves? Staying calm would help a lot, if possible. I'm not sure I could. Taking steps to protect ourselves--such as taking pictures--is a priority. After that, using our best judgment, we might consider calmly responding to specific complaints by, for example, pointing out that on page X of the [State] Driver's Handbook, cyclists have the same rights and responsibilities as drivers of motor vehicles. (That's page 16 of the Missouri Driver's Handbook.)

So, that's my 2 cents.

The homicide detective on our Tri-Team said we should have called 911...that really provoked my perspective.

If I swore out a complaint over the threat - he would have known our name/address. :eek:Hmmm:mad:

As it was, we were anonymous to him, but we had the benefit of his license plate #. :)Hmmm, that's what I call the "upper hand":D as long as he doesn't go homicidal

I think I've reconciled myself to the difference between firmly holding your ground on something and being antagonistic. Holding your ground doesn't escalate a situation, but being antagonistic doesn't.

I saw a relevant sign on a church marquee today. "Pray for those you fear."

You probably wouldn't have had to swear out a complaint. The cops would have come and he probably would have left already, if he's smart. If he's not smart, he might have antagonized the police, too, and then they'd have their own reasons for taking him in, no complaint required on your part.

It is my experience that calling the cops can make things worse--some people see that as aggressive and escalating.

Karen

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Originally Posted by Mr. Silver

Yesterday, Silver and I were riding with our friend Dan (who just turned 60). We stopped at a convenience store in the small town of Elberfeld that we frequent.

While Silver was inside, a 6+ foot, 280 lb BUBBA (with FATBOY on the front license plate of his pickup) gets out of the truck and blurts out

"I'm going to stick those bikes up your D*** A****!

My response: "I'm sorry, did we do something to offend you?"

Of course, this led to a testosterone laden conversation which may have ended with me becoming one with my bike:eek:...although I truly sensed that this guy was just a bully but smart enough to know that we had photographed his license plate (and emailed the picture home for posterity...).

Anyway, testosterone laden conversations are not usually the best things at a time like this - :p - OK, I'll admit it... "Hi, my name is Mr. Silver and I'm a HOTHEAD sometimes":(:o;)...and I'll admit that there was a better way to handle this...but it's not until later that you think of the better things to say. For instance, Dan came up with:

• Well, after 49 miles, it already feels like this bike is up my **** ***:D:rolleyes:
• I'll be glad to do that with my 20 lb vehicle if you do it with your 4,000 lb vehicle:eek:
• I'm riding 100 miles today, do you think you might be able to do 100 yards?:)

Remember, I'm 5'7" (after getting off my inversion table;)) and down to 163 lbs now (heading to 153)...

Some would say "just say nothing", but I'm not that type. So help me come up with clever but disarming lines to lighten a moment like this...

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"I'm riding 100 miles today, do you think you might be able to do 100 yards?"

I like this one-- People who are ingnorant like he is, well nevermind. I liked your story though . Jenn

I don't know what to say!! Did he give you a reason why he was so angry, or did he just get out of the car immeditley making threats. What an idiot.

I don't take well to people like that. I tend to open my mouth and insert my foot, so I have tried to learn to keep it zipped. LOL

My mouth would have been spouting off something like "EXCUSE me!!" I don't know who pissed in your post toasties but it wasn't me, so I'd appreciate it if you'd take your aggressive behaviour somewhere else."

I'm sorry that you had to deal with such an ignorant person.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Silver

I know you're kidding here, but there is a note of truth here as well. Here's what I do:

• If someone is patiently waiting to pass me, I wave them through when I see it's clear (which is usually before they do)
• When they pass carefully, I give them a nod or a thumbs up
• When someone is stopped at a cross street and letting me by, I give them a nod as well.

Notwithstanding my confrontation yesterday, I do still see myself as an ambassador (albeit one who doesn't take cr@p).

The local club (which we're not part of) has notoriously poor manners on the road...and that's what he was reacting to. Unfortunately, he was attacking a few of the good guys/gals and not the ones responsible for his frustration.

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The last part we've been working on in our club as well. Cyclists can't blow thru intersections at 25 mph and the rest of us slow down to a stop or near stop b/f we turn or go straight for instance. IAlso if we're polite and nod to passerby's like Mr. Silver said( I do the same) then maybe we can win more people over if we ask for and get mutual respect. Jenn