Bike Buying Frustration

Gosh I hate living in a small(ish) town. I have money burning a hole in my pocket and I've been wanting to buy a newbike for the last few months and there's nothing in town for me to ride! First off, I decided I really wanted to try the Trek 5.2 (5.1?) but after several weeks of waiting, they finally admitted that Trek isn't making any more and they won't be getting any in Canada at all. So I went off to look at other bikes. There's a nice looking Scott Contessa CR1 in town but it's one size too big for me. I called today to plead with them to bring in a 48cm (XS) but found out there's none available in CANADA! Then I asked about the Orbea Diva - nope, none in stock. There WAS one in the nearest town, an hour away, and I neglected to try it while I was there last weekend. Argh.

Whenever a bike store does have a bike I'm interested in, there's never one in my size so I can actually see how it fits me. They expect me to order one and hope for the best I guess. The only bike I've been able to ride so far, is a Ruby Comp which gave me an idea how the Expert will fit and it did feel great, but I haven't actually SEEN a Ruby Expert. I'm not 100% excited with the colour (black and silver) because it looks so much like my mountain bike but it looks like it will be the only bike I can actually get my hands on around here. And knowing my luck, I'll probably waffle juzt long enough for them to be out of them once I finally say "order it". :rolleyes::o

OK, thanks for letting me vent. There's no solution here I guess, other than jumping in the car and driving 4 hours to Vancouver, and THEN crossing my fingers that THEY have bikes in stock.

We could make it a TE event: meet in Vancouver and spend KG's money!
(I'm about 4 hrs from Van, too.)

LOL.

KG - do they do bike fittings from scratch at the Bike Barn in Penticton? If you could find out what geometry would work best for you then you can buy what you want (based on materials, components etc) by ordering it in and know that it's going to work. The bike might need a little tweaking by trading out a few parts but it could happen. There is also a website called wrench science, where once you make an account you can plug in your numbers in their fit system (located along the menu at the top of the webpage) and it will give you good guidance for what you should be looking for in terms of reach etc. I used this to help find my last bike.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...ilingCat-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Wahine

LOL.

KG - do they do bike fittings from scratch at the Bike Barn in Penticton? If you could find out what geometry would work best for you then you can buy what you want (based on materials, components etc) by ordering it in and know that it's going to work. The bike might need a little tweaking by trading out a few parts but it could happen. There is also a website called wrench science, where once you make an account you can plug in your numbers in their fit system (located along the menu at the top of the webpage) and it will give you good guidance for what you should be looking for in terms of reach etc. I used this to help find my last bike.

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LOL Zen and Knot... :D

Wahine - I'm not sure but I may go back and I'll ask them about it. That's where they had the Orbea Diva that I wanted to try. It's a bit more than I want to spend but it is a GORGEOUS bike. NO! it's not about the colour, I SWEAR it's not! It DOES have to fit perfectly. BUT, if I had a choice between two bikes that BOTH fit perfectly? I'll choose the purdiest one. :D:D

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Originally Posted by kelownagirl

it is a GORGEOUS bike. NO! it's not about the colour, I SWEAR it's not!

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Nuthin' wrong with that.
Color sold me my 7.2 :o

Hey, KG, I understand, it can be frustrating. But, perhaps because I came from a very small town, I've taken a leap of faith the last 4 bikes I've bought new, and I've only been disappointed once. (and I didn't even know that I was at the time)

I pre-ordered my Torrent before they even started production - I had the first one of its size off the production line. Fit perfectly, and I loved the bike!

I test rode a Santa Cruz Juliana SuperLight with low specs in a medium for all of maybe 10 minutes, then ordered mine in XTR in a small. I *love* this bike!!

I didn't test ride any road bikes before buying my Giant years ago. Giant does its sizing a lot differently than other bike brands, and the shop didn't specialize in road bikes (we bought it in Quesnel!!), but, even though it was too big, it served me quite well for its intended purpose - a training bike to help in fitness and make me faster on my mountain bike.

I had my trusted person at the shop in Kelowna fit that Giant as best he could and had such great results, that we adjusted the fit of my other two bikes to match.

Last fall, he's the guy I went to when looking for a new road bike. I was able to sit on and have a really quick mock fit done on the same frame style, but didn't ride it. Once we determined that Martin could pull off the fit well, we ordered the carbon frame in. He upgraded the drive train, swapped a few parts for best fit and now I've got over 800 blissful kms on my Canondale, that I did not test ride first. I'm super happy with her!

Just wondering if maybe it's time for you to take that leap of faith with a shop you trust - Bike Barn is fabulous, too - and get what you can. Bikes sell out by May, so, your choices just get slimmer the longer you wait....

Picture yourself on your perfect bike. Work with an "expert". Have faith that the universe won't waste your money if you trust her. You'll be riding with the butterflies soon!

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

This is Silver's love slave (Mr. Silver) taking dictation:

KG: I agree with Wahine. I just got an expert fit in Indianapolis (three hours away) and with that information, they recommended a specific bike to meet my body geometry. It tood three hours and cost $200 but is well worth it?

For your size, it may be very unrealistic to ever expect to try a bike they have in stock. A more realistic expectation may be to get an expert fitting and order a bike you've never riden based on the fitting. The cost of the fitting mitigates the risk of a bad choice.

Have you considered a custom...what about GURU - custom made in CANADA. We saw a largish guy at a tour last week who rides the only GURU in this area. They even reinforced the carbon to support his large size.

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Originally Posted by kelownagirl

Gosh I hate living in a small(ish) town. I have money burning a hole in my pocket

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Mr. Silver says: Hmmm...I wish I had these problems.

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Originally Posted by kelownagirl

Gosh I hate living in a small(ish) town.

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You live in the middle of the Okanogan! So you're having trouble buying a bike. Once you do get it you'll be able to ride around through summer-vacation-land every day.

Can you head to Van + Seattle on the long weekend and spend a few days test riding?

I can't believe someone is complaining about living in the Okanogan.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by kat_h

You live in the middle of the Okanogan! So you're having trouble buying a bike. Once you do get it you'll be able to ride around through summer-vacation-land every day.

Can you head to Van + Seattle on the long weekend and spend a few days test riding?

I can't believe someone is complaining about living in the Okanogan.:rolleyes:

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LOL, yup you're SO right on that one. :o:D

Yes, I just may have to go to Vancouver. Maybe this weekend - it's a long weekend.

And in response to the other posts.

Yes, I know it's very unrealistic to expect to find bikes in my size, in stock. Waah. :(

Custom: Every time I ask the LBS guys around here about custom bikes - they steer me off because they say they are too expensive. They tell me I'll have to pay at least $4500 for a custom bike. Whether that's true or not, it tells me they don't know enough about custom bikes to help me and I certainly don't know enough to do it myself.

Fitting: From what I can tell, there's no one who does professional fitting in Kelowna. They are claim they can fit me, but none are pros who charge for it. You buy the bike, and they tweak it until it fits.

Leap of Faith: When I bought my first road bike 2 years ago, I was lucky. I had no idea about what I wanted (or needed), knew nothing about frames or components or fitting. I rode it around the parking lot for 5 minutes and bought it. It felt weird because it was a road bike and I'd always ridden a mountain bike but it ended up fitting well and I love it. This time, I didn't want to go with a leap of faith. I wanted to be able to try out a number of bikes that are my size and compare them. I want to take them out on a 10km ride and see how they feel, see how they climb and how they feel on the flats, before I decide on a bike. This one is supposed to feel 'stiffer", that one has a smoother ride etc - I want to see how that feels. If I'm going to spend $3500, I want to make sure I buy the best bike for me and actually know what I'm getting, ya know?

Anyway, I have come to the realization that the combination of being a small female, in a small town, means that I can't do these things. So I'm going to go back to the Bike Barn and try the Orbea. And then I guess I'll choose between the Orbea and the Ruby because they are both here in town and I've been able to ride them both.

Thanks for your suggestions and responses. I'm mostly just whining, (but not about actually living in this gorgeous city kat_h. :D:D)

Another custom Canadian bicycle, the Mariposa

Maybe you should come to Seattle to shop, especially if you are thinking custom. Even here I've found it can be challenging to find something in stock to test-ride, if you're vertically challenged. But:

The exchange rate is in your favor, and

There are a number of excellent frame builders here. I just a had a great experience at R+E cycles (www.rodcycle.com). They're really great about having bikes for petite riders in stock. In fact, I could have ridden away with one the day I went in for my fitting, but I decided to go for custom paint.

I'm sure other Seattle-area TE'ers will have good ideas of places to shop, especially if you've narrowed down your ideas of what bikes you want to look at.

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Originally Posted by kelownagirl

Fitting: From what I can tell, there's no one who does professional fitting in Kelowna. They are claim they can fit me, but none are pros who charge for it. You buy the bike, and they tweak it until it fits.

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Well, KG, if you want the ultimate in professional bike fit, fly to Boulder, CO, and get fit by Andy Pruit. :) There are varying degrees of professional fitters. There is someone in the Okanagan who recently visited Vernon and I think he is from Kelowna. He charges about $300 for a fit. I think Pika might have his name. Our guy Martin, would be on the lower end of professional fit, but he still charges and he'll fit any bike for you, not just ones you buy from him. His price is more like $40. He's still very knowledgeable, and I don't know what the difference between the $300 and the $40 fit would be. I just know that the fit Martin did the first time for us, increased our speeds by 10% right away, and eliminated discomfort.

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Originally Posted by kelownagirl

I want to take them out on a 10km ride and see how they feel, see how they climb and how they feel on the flats, before I decide on a bike. This one is supposed to feel 'stiffer", that one has a smoother ride etc - I want to see how that feels. If I'm going to spend $3500, I want to make sure I buy the best bike for me and actually know what I'm getting, ya know?

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I do understand what you're trying to do, but I'm not sure you'll be able to accomplish it, even if you have all of the bikes to test ride. The fact is, you'd have to have the same tires, the same tire pressure, the same saddle, the same bike fit (stem length, saddle position, bar size, bar position) etc, on each and every bike to compare the ride and know that the difference you feel is in the frame. Besides, those reviews you read describing things like bottom bracket flex, spongy in sprints, turning faster, etc, are written by professional cyclists who just know this stuff incredibly well. Would any of us really feel those kinds of differences? We're mere mortals, we're not that talented! :p

No matter which carbon fiber bike you choose, you will instantly find it smoother than your aluminum frame! It's just that, in a case like this, you can't go wrong! Any of the bikes you've mentioned, you are going to love.

Listen to the advice you're getting, from here and from the shops that know what they are talking about (Fresh Air, Bike Barn, Kelowna Cycle, Spoke in Motion) and choose something before you miss out for another season!!

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

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Originally Posted by kat_h

I can't believe someone is complaining about living in the Okanogan.:rolleyes:

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LOLOL I was thinking the exact same thing. What I wouldn't give to be able to bike around the Okanogan at any given time!!:p;)

If you're coming to Seattle, maybe consider hopping the ferry and going to Bainbridge Island Bikes (or Bainbridge Island Bicycles, I can't remember); when I went there, they had quite a few small road bikes to try...Orbea, Giant, some others I can't remember. Anyway, they were very nice to deal with. Just a suggestion!

Takes time to find a bike that you love/fits.

Hope you get bike before the summer.

Does the Cyclepath store not carry what you're looking for? If not, maybe you can shop in the Seattle area where there are several shops to choose from according to our TE'ers.

My LBS (Recycled Cycles www.recycledcycles.com) has a lovely steel Terry right now... but you want carbon, right?

I didn't get to fondle it much, cuz SKnot was not pleased to be there. But it looked like it was in good shape. $750 or so, I think.

Wanna come to Seattle?

(BikerHen did, and went home with a black cherry Surly Long Haul Trucker!)

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Originally Posted by sundial

Does the Cyclepath store not carry what you're looking for? If not, maybe you can shop in the Seattle area where there are several shops to choose from according to our TE'ers.

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Cyclepath carries Giant and Masi. I think one other. I don't know anything about Masi.

I think if I leaev town to shop, I'll go to Vancouver - it's closer, and I don't have to deal with the whole "crossing the border and having to pay duty" issue.

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Originally Posted by LBTC

I do understand what you're trying to do, but I'm not sure you'll be able to accomplish it, even if you have all of the bikes to test ride. The fact is, you'd have to have the same tires, the same tire pressure, the same saddle, the same bike fit (stem length, saddle position, bar size, bar position) etc, on each and every bike to compare the ride and know that the difference you feel is in the frame. Besides, those reviews you read describing things like bottom bracket flex, spongy in sprints, turning faster, etc, are written by professional cyclists who just know this stuff incredibly well. Would any of us really feel those kinds of differences? We're mere mortals, we're not that talented! :p

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

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I guess the reason I keep thinking I need to try out a bike before I buy it is because that's the advice I've been hearing here at TE for the last 2 years. Everyone says the most important thing is the fit. If a bike fits you well and you can ride it comfortably, then that's the bike you should buy, regardless of whether it's a Trek or a Specialized or whatever. Now that I'm actually attempting to do that, I'm being stymied. But that's ok. I appreciate all the advice and suggestions. I WILL find a bike. I will just have to skip a few of the possibly good ones because I can try them out.




And wouldn't that be nice to be able to fly to Boulder and get a pro fit! but uh, no, don't gots the money for that.

hey KG, a friend of mine is getting a Valdora bike. They are custom carbon. I was checking it out and happened to notice that they have a dealer in Vancouver.....Bad Boyz bicycles. The price is amazing.....carbon with ultegra sl for $3,000 US (I suppose) (Oops...I see this is Vancouver, WA not BC, sorry!)

Anyhow, you oughta check them out.

http://www.valdoracycles.com/valdora...components.asp

I looked at Guru and it doesn't look like you could get one for less then $4,000.

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Originally Posted by kelownagirl

I guess the reason I keep thinking I need to try out a bike before I buy it is because that's the advice I've been hearing here at TE for the last 2 years. Everyone says the most important thing is the fit. If a bike fits you well and you can ride it comfortably, then that's the bike you should buy, regardless of whether it's a Trek or a Specialized or whatever.

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It is always best to ride a bike first if you can. That is what works. But what you're telling us is that it's not possible for the most part where you are. So the next best option is to get measured up, decide on your frame material and components and start searching for a frame with the best possible geometry for you - online, check out the specs on geometry. Then once you find it, read the reviews, see if you can locate one to try and if you can't... you might have to take a leap of faith.

I cheked online and I haven't found someone who does a ground up fit in Vancouver yet.

BTW - I did a bike fit this afternoon for someone, I determined that she needed less reach. Out of curiosity we put her numbers into the wrench science to see what it came up with and it predicted her reach almost exactly at what I thought it should be based on my observations of her on her bike. So I would again encourage you to put your numbers into wrench science, it will at least allow you to narrow down your search.

KG:

If you want custom, get a Guru. http://www.gurubikes.com/enCA/

Aluminum, carbon, titanium. Made in Canada.

I bought my Cannondale because it was built in North America, but I am sold on the Guru technology. I'm going to have to save a lot of pennies to get one, but it will be worth it!

OK thanks Wahine - I'll do that.

Spindizzy - I was looking at the Guru bikes. Very nice! The ones I liked were a tad too expensive though ($4500+). I'm wondering how they do the fit if you don't live in Montreal. Do you just send in your measurements?

Wahine - I took some quick measuerments on my own but I'll need to get it properly when DH is around to be more accurate.

That being said, once I input the info. I', not sure what it means or what I should do with it. Assuming my measurements were accurate, what does this mean?

WS Recommended Sizes
Frame Size center-to-center: 46 cm
Frame Size center-to-top: 48 cm
Overall Reach: 60.83 cm
Saddle Height: 62.80 cm
Handlebar Width: 38 cm

Since the Silver's are chiming in, I'll add another Indiana connection. Roark builds beautiful custom titanium bikes. They are competitive and you can complete the process without coming to Indiana in person (although you are always welcome). Check them out:

http://www.roarkcycles.com/default.asp

Mr. S, who did you fitting?

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Originally Posted by Mr. SR500

Mr. S, who did you fitting?

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It was me....silver....Frank Radaker at BGI. Very interesting. Just resulted in some small tweaks, new saddle (wider), recommended smaller handlebars....38cm Salsa Poco (have 44cm bontrager).

Overall he recommended that I get rid of my 58cm '07 trek madone 5.0 and get a 54cm trek Madone 5.5 pro fit. I liked that recommendation, but alas, have not the funds.

Hey, thread drift but....is there a big advantage to getting carbon handlebars over aluminum? website is showing same weight?

KG.....you have got to look at the Valdora!

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Originally Posted by silver

Hey, thread drift but....is there a big advantage to getting carbon handlebars over aluminum? website is showing same weight?

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Carbon will have better shock absorption, so a more comfortable ride. Odd that they would be the same weight, have you checked Weight Weanies?
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/

H&B
~T~

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Originally Posted by kelownagirl

WS Recommended Sizes
Frame Size center-to-center: 46 cm
Frame Size center-to-top: 48 cm

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You'll want a 46 or 47 cm frame

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Originally Posted by kelownagirl

Overall Reach: 60.83 cm
Saddle Height: 62.80 cm
Handlebar Width: 38 cm

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Reach will be adjusted both by stem length and saddle position, however, saddle position must be determined first, based on knee placement over the pedal spindle.
I'm sure you understand saddle height and handlebar width.

My assessment of this: you will likely need to change out some of the same parts that I have had to when you buy your new bike. I don't have a perfect fit on any bike straight out of the box. I usually need a shorter stem, narrower bar, and sometimes different seatpost in order to get the fit that works for me. You may find the same thing.

H&B
~T~

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Originally Posted by silver

It was me....silver....Frank Radaker at BGI. Very interesting. Just resulted in some small tweaks, new saddle (wider), recommended smaller handlebars....38cm Salsa Poco (have 44cm bontrager).

Overall he recommended that I get rid of my 58cm '07 trek madone 5.0 and get a 54cm trek Madone 5.5 pro fit. I liked that recommendation, but alas, have not the funds.

Hey, thread drift but....is there a big advantage to getting carbon handlebars over aluminum? website is showing same weight?

KG.....you have got to look at the Valdora!

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Opps sorry. I know Frank well, he fit both Kim and I and was on our trip to Italy a couple years ago. Made similar recommendations for for Kim, she still struggles a little with saddles, although likes the RaceXLite WSD that was stock on our tandem the best. She did switch to the smaller bars, and made the adjustment, but she is keeping the 40's on the new madone. A little bigger bar lets your chest open.

Wow, that is a big size difference from a 58 to a 54, I thought the new pros shared geometry with the older series of Madones. Are you running a very short stem? I'm guessing top tube length would drive the recommendation, but with your long legs, you would get some serious seat/handlebar drop. Did you ride a new one - Kim's feel great!

I have carbon bars on my Madone, and like them. I like the shape, I think they absorb a little more vibration, and they look great. Downside is you are not suppose to mount aero bars to a carbon bars. I've heard people say you could, and seen it done, but not-recommended. I'm not sure if you run aero bars or not, but might be something to consider.

The Salsa bar is nice, but very shallow drops.

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Originally Posted by Wahine

BTW - I did a bike fit this afternoon for someone, I determined that she needed less reach. Out of curiosity we put her numbers into the wrench science to see what it came up with and it predicted her reach almost exactly at what I thought it should be based on my observations of her on her bike. So I would again encourage you to put your numbers into wrench science, it will at least allow you to narrow down your search.

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Just out of curiosity, I went and plugged my numbers into the Wrench Science tool. It told me the two things I already suspected:

1. Wider bars wouldn't hurt--44cm vs. the 42cm I have now.
2. My saddle could stand being raised a couple of centimeters.

Otherwise, the numbers matched up with my bike almost spot on. Very cool. I've never actually had a bike fit, but then again, I've never had many complaints about the way my bike fits--other than the small hand issue that I solved by replacing the brifters--so it was neat to see that I got so close despite my ignorance when bike shopping. Heh. :cool:

The reach tells us that your cockpit length should be 60.83 cm. Assume a saddle in mid position on the rails, adjust a bit for seat tube angle as needed but basically, you're looking for something with an effective top tube length plus stem length of 60 ish cm that is still the right height for you.

Eg 48 cm Specialized Ruby: Effective TT length = 506, comes with a 75mm stem, these 2 together = 58.1 cm. The seat tube angle is almost 76 degrees so your cockpit length is going to be a bit more than that because of the seat tube angle which is almost 76 deg. Are you going to gain a full 2.7 cm because of the top tube length, I'm not sure. But if you didn't then you could always put a longer stem on it if you felt crowded on the bike. Stand over = 718.

49 cm Orbea Diva: ETT = 510, comes with a stem but I'll be darned if I can find the length. So let's assume it's at least 9 cm. That makes it 60 cm but the frame has a 74 deg seat tube angle so you're going to gain more length as the seat comes up, so now we're getting closer to the right amount of reach. Standover not given.

47 cm Trek Madone WSD: ETT = 494 plus a stem the length is again not specified so you could go anywhere from a 75 to a 90 or even a 110 to make it work. Standover = 69.2 cm.

I hopes that helps you get a feel for what you're looking for. It is helpful to look at standover height, but you didn't give that so I'm not sure what to say about that. But based on what I've looked at so far, you should really go try out the Orbea at Bike Barn, it might work really well for you and if you didn't like it, it would give you an idea of what else to look for.

I hope that helps and doesn't just confuse you more.

I love you Wahine. :D