still searching for the perfect fuel

I am still in the trial and error stage of finding the right protein/carb fuel for long distance riding. After about 2 1/2 hrs I start to really get hungry on the bike, despite eating something every 45 minutes or so. I burn through the gels too quick and my peanut butter/honey concoction is fine on shorter rides, but is not substantial enough for the long haul--say 50+ miles or so. I've tried PayDay bars, sport beans, Gu, Accel gel, Hammer Gel, fig newtons, fruit, etc.

I guess short of a leg of lamb :eek: I don't know what to pack. ;) Any tips or tricks that you found helpful? :o

You are not taking in nutrition frequently enough. Plus all the gels, etc... are quick energy, for before a race, quick boost during a ride, etc... For longer rides you need more then calories. The best stuff is Hammer Perpetuem:

http://www.hammernutrition.com/za/HN...0047&AMI=10082

make a milkshake bottle and sip on it all day with water in your other bottle. There is a ton of great stuff on their web site about long distance nutrition.

Real food is good too: PB&J, banana, apple, raisins, a baked potato saved me at lunch last year on the RAIN ride (160 mile ride across Indiana). After sipping Perpetuem all day I WANTED something different, but it kept my base nutrition good and felt great after the ride.

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Originally Posted by Mr. SR500

You are not taking in nutrition frequently enough. Plus all the gels, etc... are quick energy, for before a race, quick boost during a ride, etc... For longer rides you need more then calories. The best stuff is Hammer Perpetuem:

http://www.hammernutrition.com/za/HN...0047&AMI=10082

make a milkshake bottle and sip on it all day with water in your other bottle. There is a ton of great stuff on their web site about long distance nutrition.

Real food is good too: PB&J, banana, apple, raisins, a baked potato saved me at lunch last year on the RAIN ride (160 mile ride across Indiana). After sipping Perpetuem all day I WANTED something different, but it kept my base nutrition good and felt great after the ride.

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I agree, but prefer a different Hammer product -- Sustained Energy. Same stuff as Perpetuem, but unsweetened/unflavored, so I can mix it with my favorite flavors of Gu2O powdered drink. The protein combined with carbs keeps the calories coming in without the spike that just gels would do.

Have you considered stopping for lunch, like a turkey sammich or something?
Have you read Nancy Clark's The Cyclists Food Guide? Me neither but she's very highly regarded.

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Originally Posted by sundial

I guess short of a leg of lamb :eek: I don't know what to pack. ;) Any tips or tricks that you found helpful? :o

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Jerky is easier to pack than the whole leg. :)

You don't want protein as a fuel though you do need a little bit during a long ride.
There's an article in the lates (I think its the latest) Bicycling Mag about fuels, see if they have it online.

My DH prefers Spiz to Perpetuem. Spiz comes in Vanilla or Chocolate and is kinda like drinking a melted milkshake. I like to mix the two flavors (V + C) - makes it less vanilla and less chocolate but just a little sweet. Lots of info on their website www.spiz.net .

Lots of different things to try .... hope you find one that works for you.:)
Edna

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Originally Posted by zencentury

Have you considered stopping for lunch, like a turkey sammich or something?

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I completely agree, Zen! In the summer I regularly ride 85 - 100 miles at a time (on weekends) and refueling is important.

Even when I am out in CO and riding at altitude (8000 + ft.), I try to stop halfway through the ride and get real food - but nothing heavy. I have had a turkey sammich or pasta salad or something like that. I can't say I am any smarter for doing it (like I am when I stay in Holiday Inn Express) or faster.....but I sure feel a lot better.

Sundial, here is what I ate last summer when I did the Shasta climbing century. I can't eat much regular food on the bike. I know a lot of people can, but it just does not work well for me. And, I don't eat well very early in the morning pre-ride.

So, after about the first 10-15 miles, I ate a lowfat yogurt with almonds in it. After that, it was just more almonds, payday bars, power bars, clif shot bloks, one banana, carb-boom gels, plain water, and water with nuun tablets.

I ate every 15-20 minutes, but never more than a bite or two at a time. I alternated the heavier foods (fat & protein) with the pure carb foods like gel. I also ate more of the protein and fat foods earlier in the day, and used more pure carbs toward the end of the day. I also try to eat the heavier foods on the descents when I'm not working so hard. But, the gels I can digest even working very hard uphill.

I have found that there are many gels I cannot tolerate. But, my body LOVES to digest the carb-boom gels.

My digestion worked very well with this plan, and I never felt empty. It is like a steady drip of calories and energy all day.

My favorite fuel was a banana and a yoohoo. Tasty and nutritious, well tasty. :) A Detour bar was good for a long long ride, a bite at a time. Enjoy!

I found this awesome product back in 2005.
Seriously read the info provided:
http://www.cranksports.com/products/eGel/
http://www.cranksports.com/products/eFuel/

They will really keep you going.
All flavors are great, though my favorite is Cherry Bomb.

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Originally Posted by zencentury

Have you considered stopping for lunch, like a turkey sammich or something?

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Yeah, but I want to beat my time. :) :rolleyes:

You know, stopping at the little cafe in the middle of nowhere did give me fuel, but it also caused me to hitch a ride with hubby afterwards. :rolleyes:

I'll research the articles and goodies you all have posted. Thanks so much for the information.

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Originally Posted by Starfish

So, after about the first 10-15 miles, I ate a lowfat yogurt with almonds in it. After that, it was just more almonds, payday bars, power bars, clif shot bloks, one banana, carb-boom gels, plain water, and water with nuun tablets.

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So... you're in races right?
And you are unsupported, right?
No feed stations with your specific dietary wants, right?

So how do you carry all that food such as the list Starfish gave?
+ two water bottles?
Surely all that food doesn't fit in your jersey pockets?

Sorry to be so ignorant, but I do not ride these distances - the longest ride I have ever done is 100km, the longest time on a bike is 4 hours - but that wasn't at race pace so I did not need the nutrition...

Where do you stash it all?

RR, I don't race...just organized rides.

I do carry it with me. I actually have 3 bottle cages on the bike, which is helpful for really hot rides.

I put some of the food in pockets and some in an under-seat bag.

The only bulky thing is the yogurt I have for breakfast, which I stop for about the first 10 miles in. After that, it is just gels and bars. I think I grabbed the banana at a rest stop.

I second the beef jerky if you're not veggie. NOT slim jims, but real beef jerky. I like power bars, a bite every 15 minutes. And turkey sammich really makes a difference when I ride long (no racing, just out riding).

I took Zen's suggestion and ate a turkey sammich :D 45 minutes before we headed out the door. I felt good but again I hit some pretty good wind and I know that's when I have a tendency of burning through my energy reserves pretty fast. But I took a sip from my pb/honey gel every 20 minutes or so and ate a Cliff blok so I was really fueled for the ride. Unfortunately, I didn't ride the 50 miles I had intended but at least I finished strong and with plenty of energy. Hubby's fuel tank suffered and he experienced what I've experienced in the past and had energy meltdown. Although he had plenty of carbs before the ride, it just puttered out on him. He's needing good protein sources as well and I think we'll both try the sandwich trick next time. So I guess I'll try packing sandwiches on my next long ride. :)

I actually have tried jerkey but apparently there's sugar in it and made me more hungry. :confused:

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I enjoy reading about the different energy drinks and nutritional tips. :)

Peanut butter (natural unsalted unsweetened) and raisin sandwich on Deland Bakery millet bread. Some complex carbs, some simple sugars, some protein, some fat. Really easy on my stomach.

Only good for an hour or two at most in the jersey pocket, though. I have seen some really disgusting conglomerations that purported to have once been peanut butter sandwiches :rolleyes:

Mmmmm...peanut butter and raisins, I like it!
That nana and YooHoo sounds tasty too.

I found this article that I had torn out of Bicycling Magazine. It's short (one page) and might be of some help.

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Originally Posted by Pedal Wench

I agree, but prefer a different Hammer product -- Sustained Energy. Same stuff as Perpetuem, but unsweetened/unflavored, so I can mix it with my favorite flavors of Gu2O powdered drink. The protein combined with carbs keeps the calories coming in without the spike that just gels would do.

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Ditto. I like to mix 2 scoops of SE with 2 scoops of an electrolyte drink (generally Power Bar performance). Then I augment with real food (specifically V8s, PB sandwiches, bananas, PAYDAYS, Wheat Thins) or Hammer gel as needed.

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Originally Posted by zencentury

You don't want protein as a fuel though you do need a little bit during a long ride.
There's an article in the lates (I think its the latest) Bicycling Mag about fuels, see if they have it online.

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Your body can only absorb so much carbs per hour, so the calories have to come from someplace, and protein fits the bill, plus keeps your muscles from getting toast. So, protein as a fuel isn't a bad thing.

In my big 1L Zefal bottle, I mix 2 scoops Sustained and 3 scoops of Gu2O. I'm hoping that will work. Gotta long, long ride next weekend. I'll let y'all know how it works!;)

boiled red potato with salt in a baggie. complex carb
bananna at rest stops
Oranges at rest stops
other fresh fruit.

no simple sugar since you'll crash 5 minutes later from sugar rush. I heard it spikes your insulin level up and when the simple sugar is gone, you go into debt.

fig newton is the exception. besides, it could get smooshed, squeezed and still looks about the same. :)

I'm too old to be up on the all the new energy stuff :D

smilingcat

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Originally Posted by smilingcat

I'm too old to be up on the all the new energy stuff :D

smilingcat

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like electric lights ;):D

Oooh, I like the idea of the potato and salt in a baggie!
Gonna have to try that.

Knot, don't they have potato chips up there in the wild PNW?;)

My marathon training coach turned me on to Glucose tablets (available at Walgreens). They're easy to chew and work great when I'm feeling hungry or need a boost of energy. :)

I just want to add to the discussion- Hammer Nutrition stuff is good, and don't worry about that ridiculous warning they give you about not using other products or eating anything else when you use their products. That's just silly- do what works for you!
I agree with eating whatever real food you can carry if you're on a long tour. In races, you tend to have to stick to gel/liquid stuff and just deal with it if you get hungry in order to avoid stomach issues resulting from eating solid food followed by hard, high intensity efforts.

Here's something I found on a backpacking website a while back that is designed more for hiking but might work for cycling too (haven't tried it for that application):

Ultralight Joe's Moose Goo
NOTE: If you pass this around to your friends, I have but one request - please refer to it as "Ultralight Joe's Moose Goo". Since I run this site anonymously, it's not an ego thing. I just get a kick out of hearing it mentioned on the trail, let's me know I'm contributing to my fellow trekkers. A simple pleasure, perhaps, but I take what I can get. :-) Thanks!

Basic Recipe:
2 parts honey
2 parts corn flour (NOT corn meal! I plan to try sweet rice flour soon.)
1 part peanut butter (preservative-laden)
Mix thoroughly, will take some time.
Pack into Coghlan's Squeeze Tube (REI, Campmor, etc), or in cold weather wrap in wax paper.
Single Squeeze Tube Proportions (2-3 lunches w/ large tortillas):
8 tbsp honey
8 tbsp corn flour
4 tbsp peanut butter
Per tube:
1320 calories
172g carbs (70 simple, 102 complex)
24g protein
38g fat (That's a high proportion of fat, but what the heck...)
BEWARE! Below 40F, Ultralight Joe's Moose Goo becomes impossible to squeeze out! I open the tube from the back and spoon it out when that happens. For snow camping I pack it in wax paper instead, eat it like a candy bar, or pre-pack it into tortillas.

As for the peanut butter needing to be "preservative-laden", forget that part--I used natural peanut butter when I made this and it was fine; I think that was more for people who are going to be storing it for long periods of time rather than making some before a trip and eating it fairly soon. My variation on this (at least for a winter hike) is to add some cocoa powder to the mixture, roll the stuff into balls and then in dried coconut, and then pack in wax paper. BTW, "corn flour" means masa harina, which you can probably find in the Spanish section of your grocery store.

Oh! I've tried Ultralight Joe's Moose Goo! It's a bit dry, but I liked it. Sometimes the cornflour is hard on my tummy, but it's pretty good Funny -- I've used it backpacking, but never thought to try it on the bike.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Peanut butter (natural unsalted unsweetened) and raisin sandwich on Deland Bakery millet bread. Some complex carbs, some simple sugars, some protein, some fat. Really easy on my stomach.

Only good for an hour or two at most in the jersey pocket, though. I have seen some really disgusting conglomerations that purported to have once been peanut butter sandwiches :rolleyes:

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Try using tortillas or pitas for peanut butter sandwiches. They last a lot longer.

I like to take a tortilla, smear it with peanut butter, then wrap up a small banana. It wouldn't fit in a pocket but you could wrap it in saran wrap and cable tie it to your frame if you needed to.

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Originally Posted by Jolt

Ultralight Joe's Moose Goo

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Wow, that's the second recipe I've seen recently that called for eating uncooked unsprouted grain. I always thought they were indigestible and the phytic acid was really bad for you???

Edit: also, I've never seen "preservative-laden" PB, although it's been a long time since I read a label on a grocery store brand. Mostly you get three things in grocery store PB: hydrogenated oils (so it doesn't separate at room temperature; mixing it with flour would eliminate that anyhow), sugar and salt (because they put those in everything including a lot of organic and natural food store brands :rolleyes:). You don't want to store PB unrefrigerated for long periods of time because of the risk of aflatoxin, but it's fine for a week or three IMO.

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Originally Posted by Pedal Wench

Your body can only absorb so much carbs per hour, so the calories have to come from someplace, and protein fits the bill, plus keeps your muscles from getting toast. So, protein as a fuel isn't a bad thing.

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But it shouldn't be used as a primary power source.
Read the article I referenced.

Ok, so I steamed some small potatoes, (potatos?) and lightly covered it in olive oil and course ground sea salt. Yum! But then......nature called......and called.......and called. :o

Glad I wasn't out on a long ride today. :o

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Wow, that's the second recipe I've seen recently that called for eating uncooked unsprouted grain. I always thought they were indigestible and the phytic acid was really bad for you???

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Actually, with the masa harina I think the way the corn is processed (treated with lime, I think) is supposed to make it more digestible. At least that's what I heard. I've read some things about phytate etc. lately and am wondering how much of an issue it really is and if it is a big problem, how to tweak some favorite recipes to fix that.

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You don't want to store PB unrefrigerated for long periods of time because of the risk of aflatoxin, but it's fine for a week or three IMO.

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huh?

I've never ever put my Jif in the fridge (except the natural stuff after I've mixed it). The big Jifs from Sam's last for months and months.

Karen, apparently an walking aflatoxin timebomb...

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

huh?

I've never ever put my Jif in the fridge (except the natural stuff after I've mixed it). The big Jifs from Sam's last for months and months.

Karen, apparently an walking aflatoxin timebomb...

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Me too...never refrigerated PB in my life...

Have you looked into Infinit Nutrition? You can make your own custom blend. They have a questionaire and a slider system that makes it pretty easy to come close on the first try. You can decide your carb blend: fast vs slow burning, and whether or not you want protein and how much. You can also tailor the strength of the flavors. I've been using it for about 2 years now. I used to use Hammer Perpetuem, but after a while I just couldn't stand the flavor and it didn't sit well on my stomach.